OT: Covid-19 (Part 29) Sick Again...?

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ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
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It’s not just all governments of every level of every country that’s in on it, it’s also all academic researchers of every university around the globe, as well as every journalist...apparently.

I can’t even get my staff to agree on a day and time for a critical meeting, but apparently millions of government officials, media members, researchers and journalists are all part of a global scam to...shut down economies? It’s such a f***ing stupid conspiracy.
there's people believing this stuff, imagine.
 

CHwest

Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling.
May 24, 2011
3,446
4,512
They still take care of urgent surgery. They talked about that yesterday...it’s way too soon to draw any conclusions. You also need to factor that during lockdown...less death by accident road/work....

There is around 4000k suicide per years in Canada... again too soon to see the influence of Covid

You have more than 9000 death by Covid right now.

The odd are you are wrong.

Are you suggesting gouvernement took this pandemic too seriously...and the measure taken were too much ?
If yes, you would also need to factor the cost of doing nothing (obviously more death by covid if you do nothing)
Initially I was happy with the governments response. But.. when it became apparent that this is not the boogeyman everyone thought...... well its time to loosen up. In my province in the last 7 months we have lost 5 children to the common flu, zero to covid. For most of the population it is no more than a flu. People along with the media has kept it whipped up. That is how Alberta's, or a very good chunk of us feel. My city, about 65k has had at least 10 young men and a child take their lives in the last 12 wks, that is a damn shame. I am not down playing the seriousness of the illness, but we cannot put our kids and grandkids in a financial hole to save seniors, and I am a senior.
 
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Paddyjack

Registered User
Dec 10, 2007
2,896
3,146
Sherbrooke
Initially I was happy with the governments response. But.. when it became apparent that this is not the boogeyman everyone thought...... well its time to loosen up. In my province in the last 7 months we have lost 5 children to the common flu, zero to covid. For most of the population it is no more than a flu. People along with the media has kept it whipped up. That is how Alberta's, or a very good chunk of us feel. My city, about 65k has had at least 10 young men and a child take their lives in the last 12 wks, that is a damn shame. I am not down playing the seriousness of the illness, but we cannot put our kids and grandkids in a financial hole to save seniors, and I am a senior.

I've mentioned this before to someone else, your opinion while insensitive to older people or loved ones, is at least considering facts. I think that in certain setups such as small towns, or any not densely populated area it makes sense. What I can absolutely not stand is people claiming this is a hoax, government are there to control us long term etc.

Currrently, the strategy is to save as much people as we can, and initially the plan was to have time to understand this virus without being overwhelmed. I think we succeeded in that part. In BC for example, we get twice the number of cases per day now than what we had in our highest in March when we closed everything, yet we are not closing anything so far except maybe some bars and gatherings.

But I think it will come to a point soon where life will gradually get back to somewhat normal. And then tratments will be found to help even better.

Yes, I'm feeling positive today :)
But don't ask me how I feel about global warming though because I will go get that bottle of rhum and drain it ;p
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
Initially I was happy with the governments response. But.. when it became apparent that this is not the boogeyman everyone thought...... well its time to loosen up. In my province in the last 7 months we have lost 5 children to the common flu, zero to covid. For most of the population it is no more than a flu. People along with the media has kept it whipped up. That is how Alberta's, or a very good chunk of us feel. My city, about 65k has had at least 10 young men and a child take their lives in the last 12 wks, that is a damn shame. I am not down playing the seriousness of the illness, but we cannot put our kids and grandkids in a financial hole to save seniors, and I am a senior.
wild, wild guess : in your province in the last 7 months 99.9% of the decisions were made to beat the covid, and absolutely nothing (specific) was done to fight the flu.
 
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waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
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Montreal
I see it the other way. The reason we got set back is because the vulnerables were getting terribly hit.
Again, if there are no deaths then you don't shut things down.
If it weren't for deaths we would never have gone into a lockdown in the first place.

My concern is that not very many people actually were sick outside of long-term care homes and CHSLDs. Now, it's the opposite. The numbers we are seeing are from people like you or me, going about their ordinary days, infecting others because they are around others. In public, not stuck in a hospital or facility like before.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Initially I was happy with the governments response. But.. when it became apparent that this is not the boogeyman everyone thought...... well its time to loosen up. In my province in the last 7 months we have lost 5 children to the common flu, zero to covid. For most of the population it is no more than a flu. People along with the media has kept it whipped up. That is how Alberta's, or a very good chunk of us feel. My city, about 65k has had at least 10 young men and a child take their lives in the last 12 wks, that is a damn shame. I am not down playing the seriousness of the illness, but we cannot put our kids and grandkids in a financial hole to save seniors, and I am a senior.

You kinda are though...when claiming it isn't the boogeyman everyone thought.
This thing caused a global crisis, a worldwide pandemic shutting down traveling as we knew it. Endless amount of industries got screwed because of it.
Whether it did it directly, or indirectly, is irrelevant. Governments across the world had very little time to decide what route to take once it came out of China. I'm not pointing the finger, just stated it originated from there.

So ya, it definitely is the boogeyman we thought, actually it's even worse than we believed. It's not just the actual sickness, all the collateral damage it's done....it is absolutely the worst boogeyman we've ever seen since maybe the ice age.

On that note, I do somewhat agree. I don't believe in keeping things shut.
 

ProMath

Registered User
Dec 13, 2010
436
331
Initially I was happy with the governments response. But.. when it became apparent that this is not the boogeyman everyone thought...... well its time to loosen up. In my province in the last 7 months we have lost 5 children to the common flu, zero to covid. For most of the population it is no more than a flu. People along with the media has kept it whipped up. That is how Alberta's, or a very good chunk of us feel. My city, about 65k has had at least 10 young men and a child take their lives in the last 12 wks, that is a damn shame. I am not down playing the seriousness of the illness, but we cannot put our kids and grandkids in a financial hole to save seniors, and I am a senior.

Depend what you mean by loosen up.

If you barely have cases...I’m pretty sure everyone is doing theirs thing like they were before...like some was doing here some weeks ago. Wearing a mask and washing your hand is not supposed to be a problem.

It is not the common flu. A couple of doctor went public with that kind of statement...but the vast vast majority, especially the one holding credibility aren’t comparing covid to the flu. Maybe we wake up in 20 years with 10-20-30% of the person infected with big respiratory problem (plausible)...imagine the cost of that. Maybe everything will be fine...it’s too soon right now.

Right now, here, the region affected are smaller area that did not take it very seriously (which I understand because they did not got hit in the 1st wave) . If Covid spread everywhere...the health system won’t be able to take care of everything..it’s not only about death...but ICU and hospitalization...that is a pretty basic equation.

About the economy...we were one of the country in best shape financially (debt/PIB). We can take that hit. Canada had much much more debt during the war.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
My concern is that not very many people actually were sick outside of long-term care homes and CHSLDs. Now, it's the opposite. The numbers we are seeing are from people like you or me, going about their ordinary days, infecting others because they are around others. In public, not stuck in a hospital or facility like before.

Sure, but that's no different than people walking around with a cold infecting others. If people like us aren't going to transmit it to the vulnerables and we aren't going to be dying or stuck in hospitals, well then it's not as bad anymore.

The reason we shutdown before is because we didn't want our hospitals to get overwhelmed with the amount of vulnerable people. So if this time around we aren't worried about not having enough hospital beds and ICUs, well then we don't need to lock anything down really.
 
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Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,179
27,935
Montreal
Initially I was happy with the governments response. But.. when it became apparent that this is not the boogeyman everyone thought...... well its time to loosen up. In my province in the last 7 months we have lost 5 children to the common flu, zero to covid. For most of the population it is no more than a flu. People along with the media has kept it whipped up. That is how Alberta's, or a very good chunk of us feel. My city, about 65k has had at least 10 young men and a child take their lives in the last 12 wks, that is a damn shame. I am not down playing the seriousness of the illness, but we cannot put our kids and grandkids in a financial hole to save seniors, and I am a senior.

It already killed 1.5 times more than the worst flu seasons.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,672
16,395
Orange code restrictions are just stupid.

For Private Gatherings : 6 persons OR 2 families.

I'm in a new relationship, thus, I'm not living my with GF. Which is a pretty good thing, since :
- We live really close one to another
- We're both teleworking

Hence, no intention of moving.

Since we live at two different adresses, we're two families.

We have a few friends in couples living nearby. However, we can't go to their place, nor they can go to one of ours. Because that's 3 "families". ("Household" would've been a much better term, but, wtv)

But we can go together, in a bar, and sit at the same table. Like, WTF?
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
COVID-19 is one of the top 5 leading causes of daily deaths in pretty much every country around the world. It hasn't even existed for a year, we have basically shut down or disrupted every industry all over the world, and it is still killing people at rates similar to cancer and heart disease.

Just keep that in mind when you try to pacify yourself with low percentages and other numbers to make you sleep better at night.
 
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waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
Sure, but that's no different than people walking around with a cold infecting others. If people like us aren't going to transmit it to the vulnerables and we aren't going to be dying or stuck in hospitals, well then it's not as bad anymore.

The reason we shutdown before is because we didn't want our hospitals to get overwhelmed with the amount of vulnerable people. So if this time around we aren't worried about not having enough hospital beds and ICUs, well then we don't need to lock anything down really.

We are definitely worried about these things though. The percentage of people getting sick is likely to be much, much higher. Even if the risk (as far as we know) is lower for younger demographics, a small percentage of a huge number of still potentially a big number.
 

CHwest

Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling.
May 24, 2011
3,446
4,512
You kinda are though...when claiming it isn't the boogeyman everyone thought.
This thing caused a global crisis, a worldwide pandemic shutting down traveling as we knew it. Endless amount of industries got screwed because of it.
Whether it did it directly, or indirectly, is irrelevant. Governments across the world had very little time to decide what route to take once it came out of China. I'm not pointing the finger, just stated it originated from there.

So ya, it definitely is the boogeyman we thought, actually it's even worse than we believed. It's not just the actual sickness, all the collateral damage it's done....it is absolutely the worst boogeyman we've ever seen since maybe the ice age.

On that note, I do somewhat agree. I don't believe in keeping things shut.
I am not down playing the damage it has done, especially the collateral damage. But... the people (governments) choose the damage, and with what we knew or feared I guess it was justified. We now know the disease is not as terrifying as first thought so it is time to open things up. For some people this is a frightening prospect, for me the other is more frightening.
 
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DavePeak

What a goal Mann!
Jul 15, 2009
2,994
4,366
Montreal
Orange code restrictions are just stupid.

For Private Gatherings : 6 persons OR 2 families.

I'm in a new relationship, thus, I'm not living my with GF. Which is a pretty good thing, since :
- We live really close one to another
- We're both teleworking

Hence, no intention of moving.

Since we live at two different adresses, we're two families.

We have a few friends in couples living nearby. However, we can't go to their place, nor they can go to one of ours. Because that's 3 "families". ("Household" would've been a much better term, but, wtv)

But we can go together, in a bar, and sit at the same table. Like, WTF?
From what I saw in the PC, I think this is actually the rule:
For Private Gatherings :
  • <=2 families: as many as you want (they gave the example of 8 during the PC)
  • >2 families: maximum 6
So I think you should be fine.

Edit: from quebec.ca
Private indoor or outdoor gatherings
Maximum 6 people OR 2 families
(i.e. 2 families with a total in excess of 6 people authorized)
 
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Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,179
27,935
Montreal
I am not down playing the damage it has done, especially the collateral damage. But... the people (governments) choose the damage, and with what we knew or feared I guess it was justified. We now know the disease is not as terrifying as first thought so it is time to open things up. For some people this is a frightening prospect, for me the other is more frightening.

Almost a million deaths is not frightening enough?
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,672
16,395
From what I saw in the PC, I think this is actually the rule:
For Private Gatherings : 6 persons or 8 persons from a max of 2 families.
So I think you should be fine.

I mean... That would be quite a bit more logical.
The explanation is really, really badly written.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
We now know the disease is not as terrifying as first thought so it is time to open things up.

Where are you getting this? Nobody is saying it isn't as bad as we thought outside of conspiracy theorists and denialists.

It's exactly as dangerous as they have been saying all along, maybe worse.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
We are definitely worried about these things though. The percentage of people getting sick is likely to be much, much higher. Even if the risk (as far as we know) is lower for younger demographics, a small percentage of a huge number of still potentially a big number.

I guess we will see, hospitalizations now are pretty low, if that remains the same as infections raise...they won't have a big argument to shut everything down.
 
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CHwest

Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling.
May 24, 2011
3,446
4,512
Almost a million deaths is not frightening enough?
Almost a million deaths is not frightening enough?
We have to look at those million deaths with a critical eye. If you die of anything and have covid it's blamed on covid, most of those deaths can be attributed to underlying health issues. I am in that group, and not willing to have society sit it out. How many deaths can be indirectly be attributed to what we are doing? Look after those at risk, the rest of us carry on and hope for the best. Paying people to sit around in their homes is not sustainable and not fair to those that run the supply chain. How long till truckers, producers, grocers, doctors etc. say screw it, I'll sit around and collect government money as well.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
I am not down playing the damage it has done, especially the collateral damage. But... the people (governments) choose the damage, and with what we knew or feared I guess it was justified. We now know the disease is not as terrifying as first thought so it is time to open things up. For some people this is a frightening prospect, for me the other is more frightening.
Not sure how things are being handled in your area, but everything here save for nightclubs is open. Even stripclubs are open, and not surprisingly, they've had a few people there end up testing positive..:biglaugh:
They're just limiting crowd size but everything is pretty much open here. Even as we get into the 2nd worst level of color association to this virus, they still haven't shut anything down.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,672
16,395
Paying people to sit around in their homes is not sustainable and not fair to those that run the supply chain. How long till truckers, producers, grocers, doctors etc. say screw it, I'll sit around and collect government money as well.

... That's some serious conflating of already conflated issues.

You know what's unfair to people who run the supply chain? Do as if it was business as usual and go to strippers bars and whatnot. Because they'll just be more exposed to danger.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Orange code restrictions are just stupid.

For Private Gatherings : 6 persons OR 2 families.

I'm in a new relationship, thus, I'm not living my with GF. Which is a pretty good thing, since :
- We live really close one to another
- We're both teleworking

Hence, no intention of moving.

Since we live at two different adresses, we're two families.

We have a few friends in couples living nearby. However, we can't go to their place, nor they can go to one of ours. Because that's 3 "families". ("Household" would've been a much better term, but, wtv)

But we can go together, in a bar, and sit at the same table. Like, WTF?

Ya..I think, a bit of leniency can be applied to the 2 families term. It's silly otherwise as you pointed out.
Same thing if whoever you're seeing has a roommate who's also dating. That means only one roommate at a time can have a visitor. Lol...silliness.
 
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