OT: COVID-19 Megathread III (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

[NoNecksCurse]

Science shouldn’t be political. It has become that thanks to a certain demographic.

 

[PredsV82]

Trust issues or not, at some point your brain has to take over and recognize the danger that is out there, day in and day out.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Trust issues or not, at some point your brain has to take over and recognize the danger that is out there, day in and day out.

And not just the danger... also the unnecessary inconvenience that some people seem to be so sensitive to - and yet are seemingly so eager to prolong.

 

[triggrman]

The major difference is the mindset of Canadians, and alot of that goes back to the differences in how the countries were formed and who went where. Both countries also have entirely different medical structures as well which also plays some part in it I'm sure.

I also can't emphasize it enough but people simply don't trust the government anymore. Right or left that has universally become the case in the US. You see the same factor pop up in other areas as well, not just this topic.

A good example is a statement I heard from Dave Chapelle in an interview fairly recently. He said the reason higher taxes and universal Healthcare works in some European countries is because those people genuinely feel like they are getting something for their money. No one feels that would be the case with the US government. If they did you would see a much broader willingness to do those things.

I mean you can point the finger and blame the " idiots ", I get it. At the same time though I'm pointing a finger at the federal government because their previous schemes are what has driven alot of it. Perfect example is the African American community and why they have resisted it so much. It's due to past events where they were used as essentially human test beds without their knowledge.

People simply don't trust the government and after the opiod issues they sure as heck don't trust the pharmaceutical companies.

This is 100% correct and it didn't start with anyone recent. Our "leaders" have been corrupt for a very long time, on both sides. Governmental corruption will be our downfall eventually.

 

[Armourboy]

Trust issues or not, at some point your brain has to take over and recognize the danger that is out there, day in and day out.

When you don't trust something you aren't going to believe the information they are giving you anyways.

I mean I'll be honest if it wasn't for much of what I've found on YouTube and Spotify from scientists I probably wouldn't believe most of it either. Definitely don't trust a thing that comes out of mainstream media, right or left.

 

[triggrman]

When you don't trust something you aren't going to believe the information they are giving you anyways.

I mean I'll be honest if it wasn't for much of what I've found on YouTube from scientists I probably wouldn't believe most of it either. Definitely don't trust a thing that comes out of mainstream media, right or left.

I got the vaccine but i don't know if I believe it works......

 

[Armourboy]

I got the vaccine but i don't know if I believe it works......

I mean I don't know, didn't get it before the vaccine and haven't had it since so I'm certainly not proof of anything. I know getting it jacked me up for 4-5 days though.

Now masks I'd argue about simply because I've heard too much from scientists, researchers and doctors that lead me to believe that at least most of what the general public has access to doesn't really work. I just think it's something to fall back on for the government so it looks like they are doing something.

Now that's not me saying masks don't work on other things, I just think there is a particle size, aerosol, viral load thing going on with covid that makes them ineffective. Now scientists and doctors may have access to something that works better but most people won't have access to that stuff.

 

[triggrman]

I had COVID, was about like strep for me, so it sucked, don’t want it again. Got the vaccine, I do not feel protected though

 

[Armourboy]

I had COVID, was about like strep for me, so it sucked, don’t want it again. Got the vaccine, I do not feel protected though

I don't either really. It was always my understanding that at least this one was effective in reducing your risk of being hospitalized, not necessarily keeping you from getting it.

Could be wrong on that but was my understanding of it from what I could tell.

 

[PredsV82]

I got the vaccine but i don't know if I believe it works......

It does.

 

[PredsV82]

I had COVID, was about like strep for me, so it sucked, don’t want it again. Got the vaccine, I do not feel protected though

Well, I wouldnt go tongue kissing patients on the COVID ward, but for casual exposure, you're definitely protected against serious illness

 

[PredsV82]

When you don't trust something you aren't going to believe the information they are giving you anyways.

I mean I'll be honest if it wasn't for much of what I've found on YouTube and Spotify from scientists I probably wouldn't believe most of it either. Definitely don't trust a thing that comes out of mainstream media, right or left.

Jesus they arent all liars. Watch BBC America they have no agenda.

 

[Armourboy]

Jesus they arent all liars. Watch BBC America they have no agenda.

I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you if you don't think the BBC has an agenda. What they did with Dr. Who is example #1

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I don't either really. It was always my understanding that at least this one was effective in reducing your risk of being hospitalized, not necessarily keeping you from getting it.

Could be wrong on that but was my understanding of it from what I could tell.

Yeah, I feel similarly. I'm ultimately skeptical about efficacy (I have REALLY shitty luck sometimes, lol), especially with all these variants arising, so still operate as though I'm unprotected (mask/gloves, limited going out, socially distanced). That said, was never a doubt about getting it, even if I'm not fully protected the more I can do to protect those that are vulnerable and lower the threat of mutations, etc..., the better.

 

[PredsV82]

I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you if you don't think the BBC has an agenda. What they did with Dr. Who is example #1

You're hopelessly brain broken. Seriously people like you who see conspiracies and secret plots in everything are a big part of the problem with society today. Not just vaccines but the loss of belief in expertise. People like you will believe some unsourced youtube video or facebook screengrab over the opinions of I internationally recognized experts. It's absolutely heartbreaking and demoralizing as someone who has spent his entire adult life trying to help sick people using scientifically proven methods.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Yeah, I feel similarly. I'm ultimately skeptical about efficacy (I have REALLY shitty luck sometimes, lol), especially with all these variants arising, so still operate as though I'm unprotected (mask/gloves, limited going out, socially distanced). That said, was never a doubt about getting it, even if I'm not fully protected the more I can do to protect those that are vulnerable and lower the threat of mutations, etc..., the better.

I was just talking to my sister about the effectiveness against variants today, and she shared some data with me on AstraZeneca and Pfizer

With 1 dose both AZ and Pf are 45.5-51.7% effective against Alpha and 25.2-35.7% effective against Delta
For 2 doses Pf is 91.6-95.3% effective against Alpha and 85.3-90.1% effective against Delta
For 2 doses AZ is 68.4-79.4% effective against Alpha and 61.3-71.8% effective against Delta

I don't have the numbers but J&J single dose vaccine is a much lower effectiveness in both cases.

 

[hockey diva]

I am starting to get worn down by the resistance to the vaccine.

 

[PredsV82]

I was just talking to my sister about the effectiveness against variants today, and she shared some data with me on AstraZeneca and Pfizer

With 1 dose both AZ and Pf are 45.5-51.7% effective against Alpha and 25.2-35.7% effective against Delta
For 2 doses Pf is 91.6-95.3% effective against Alpha and 85.3-90.1% effective against Delta
For 2 doses AZ is 68.4-79.4% effective against Alpha and 61.3-71.8% effective against Delta

I don't have the numbers but J&J single dose vaccine is a much lower effectiveness in both cases.

AZ isn't available in the US. Modernas numbers are similar to Pfizer.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

You're hopelessly brain broken. Seriously people like you who see conspiracies and secret plots in everything are a big part of the problem with society today. Not just vaccines but the loss of belief in expertise. People like you will believe some unsourced youtube video or facebook screengrab over the opinions of I internationally recognized experts. It's absolutely heartbreaking and demoralizing as someone who has spent his entire adult life trying to help sick people using scientifically proven methods.

As someone who is very Christian but also extremely pro-science, anti-conspiracy theories, a behavioral "boy scout/good citizen," and far too trusting of authority, I still sort of "get it," especially when it comes to medical stuff. You see these antics with the drug companies and insurance companies, who we've seen in many cases value the bottom line over people's health, and the perception that the government agencies (to which these experts sometimes belong) created to watchdog them aren't doing much to prevent it (or worse, things like Tuskegee), I can absolutely understand the skepticism. That said, when much of the opposition seems to be "I don't need it, it's not a real threat to me" or "government isn't going to tell ME what to do," or political conspiracy/they're implanting me with nanochips, I guess that sort of falls flat.

 

[PredsV82]

As someone who is very Christian but also extremely pro-science, anti-conspiracy theories, a behavioral "boy scout/good citizen," and far too trusting of authority, I still sort of "get it," especially when it comes to medical stuff. You see these antics with the drug companies and insurance companies, who we've seen in many cases value the bottom line over people's health, and the perception that the government agencies (to which these experts sometimes belong) created to watchdog them aren't doing much to prevent it (or worse, things like Tuskegee), I can absolutely understand the skepticism. That said, when much of the opposition seems to be "I don't need it, it's not a real threat to me" or "government isn't going to tell ME what to do," or political conspiracy/they're implanting me with nanochips, I guess that sort of falls flat.

Skepticism 12 or even 6 months ago I can understand. But the vaccine has now been given to literally billions of people worldwide. How much proof does even a skeptic need?

 

[Armourboy]

You're hopelessly brain broken. Seriously people like you who see conspiracies and secret plots in everything are a big part of the problem with society today. Not just vaccines but the loss of belief in expertise. People like you will believe some unsourced youtube video or facebook screengrab over the opinions of I internationally recognized experts. It's absolutely heartbreaking and demoralizing as someone who has spent his entire adult life trying to help sick people using scientifically proven methods.

I don't listen to unsourced bullshit. You do realize many of the researchers and doctors working on covid have their own freaking YouTube channels? One of the main guys I've listened to in the past is on the covid task force in the freaking Biden administration now.

Sometimes you gotta find them on other people's shows, but I'm listening to doctors and researchers not a freaking journalist.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Skepticism 12 or even 6 months ago I can understand. But the vaccine has now been given to literally billions of people worldwide. How much proof does even a skeptic need?

Some people need more time than others. My wife, if not more skeptical than me, was more resistant primarily due to the lack of long-term data (that we're obviously not going to have for years), which is something I can't blame people for being wary of. In fairness, she also has been battling some other health issues and didn't want to have to absorb the vaccine side effects (or any reaction) until feeling healthier. But in that set-up, I've been the one primarily doing grocery shopping and picking up stuff and the like, so she's also not out being exposed or exposing others.

Truthfully though, I don't think a lot of the resistance is all that nuanced or principled, and those people are going to fight it until there's no other option. I don't blame those of you in the profession for being exhausted and at your wit's end, much gratitude and admiration to you and diva (and anyone else so employed).

 

[Gh24]

I think I'm right and that they are wrong. They think they're right and that I'm wrong. We all have to remember that on either side you are, most of us don't mean any harm. There are several reasons why we have come to the conclusions we have and calling the other side with names is not the way to connect, if your purpose is to try to convince them of anything. You have to understand where they come from and find a way to get them to question themselves by providing food for thought.


One thing about conspiracy theories is that most of them are just too big to actually stay in secret. The more people are involved, more likely someone will let something slip or have second thoughts. I've seen some convincing opinions that are in contradiction to what the authorities are doing, but they often focus on one narrow aspect instead of the whole situation. I mean you'd think someone would already have found the microchip that they're supposedly planting on you or credible theories on how it's used to manipulate the masses would have arisen already?

And while there are interesting theories even from people with adequate expertise (biology, immunology, statistics etc. Researchers, not doctors) the thing about science is that whatever they are suggesting need to be proven and whatever personal research they have done (or are referring to) has to be reproducible. There are several highly credited universities and research institutes around the world and if none of them think those theories are worth something or haven't been able to reproduce the results, then the odds are it's nothing rather than "whole world closing it's eyes from the truth".

And while people often remember to mention (to strike fear or to convince someone) that the alternative view comes from an expert, it's somehow forgotten or discredited when a larger group of experts provide a counter-argument.

 

[PredsV82]

I don't listen to unsourced bullshit. You do realize many of the researchers and doctors working on covid have their own freaking YouTube channels? One of the main guys I've listened to in the past is on the covid task force in the freaking Biden administration now.

Sometimes you gotta find them on other people's shows, but I'm listening to doctors and researchers not a freaking journalist.

No, I dont realize that, because your posts sound much more like someone who listens to unsourced garbage. If you're listening to credible sources then youd know that the vaccines available in the US are overwhelmingly free of serious complications, and are very effective at preventing serious illness due to COVID.

 

[Armourboy]

No, I dont realize that, because your posts sound much more like someone who listens to unsourced garbage. If you're listening to credible sources then youd know that the vaccines available in the US are overwhelmingly free of serious complications, and are very effective at preventing serious illness due to COVID.

No I don't know that, they say that, but then they say a whole lot of things that they then turn around and back track on.

Now we are back to wearing masks inside even if you have been vaccinated because it's possible you could still carry it. This is after they said we didn't need too, which was a flip that we did need too.

They can tell us anything they want, doesn't mean all of it is true or accurate, and as we've discovered with a guy like Faucci they can deliberately lie and have no qualms about it.

I listen and learn about a lot of things all the time, doesn't mean it will all hold up over time. I mean remember when the lab leak theory would get you banned on Facebook, and derided as crazy Trump talk, silly, an idiot for believing it could be true? Yeah good times.