OT: COVID-19 Megathread III (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

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FossilFndr

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Jan 18, 2014
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Look at the Tennessee vaccine availability by county. Horrible, either limited or not available in every county.
 

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triggrman

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Here's a map showing how the spread is going. Looks like the entire country is finally doing better, even California, who has been mostly terrible throughout. Funny they have the tightest restrictions but the worst outcomes.
 

LCPreds

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Dec 8, 2013
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Sure they made that decision, but when a company is punished for offering too good of coverage at lower than expected rates your plan still sucks.

No one gives a damn about the millions of others when it makes their own situation worse.

I do. I was happy to pay a little more if it allowed millions of others to finally have piece of mind on what I consider to be a basic human requirement.

It just feels like this whole healthcare debate is such an oddly American only sort of deal. I don't understand it.
 

bdub24

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View attachment 388430

Here's a map showing how the spread is going. Looks like the entire country is finally doing better, even California, who has been mostly terrible throughout. Funny they have the tightest restrictions but the worst outcomes.
Living here I can’t even begin to understand why California has been so consistently bad at this. There are pockets of whackos who made this all about politics (when a virus could care less about that) and between their protests and the BLM protests we had huge crowds that didn’t observe mask discipline. Forget social distancing. Now seeing the state is lagging in vaccine delivery. Something like only 45% of what we have received are in people’s arms at this point. I know there is going to be some innovation that gives this a turbo boost for delivery (way too many brilliant engineers in this state to not come up with something), but California is not a model.
 

Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
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51 percent of Americans would refuse, delay COVID vaccine: survey (nypost.com)
VERIFY: Will you be required to get a COVID-19 vaccine before you get another stimulus payment? | khou.com
GOP Congressman: Give $1,400 stimulus checks to people who get the COVID-19 vaccine (msn.com)
New Pre-Print Study Suggests COVID Reinfection Is Not That Rare – CBS New York (cbslocal.com)

After a year there is still no clear effective response that make people feel secure. More than half of the population refusing the vaccine, new strains of the virus and half the country scared out of there everloving minds.

Two weeks into the NHL shorted season scheduling canceled games is already pushing the ability to complete even the 56 game regular season. The cushion between the regular season and the playoffs is not going to be adequate. Unless something changes pretty dramatically in the next 30 days this season is going to be lost. Has there been a single day that at least one player or coach has not tested positive? Is the protocol too strict?

Over 5000 deaths yesterday reported as covid related. Despite all the money and all the precautions another federal lockdown is on its way. But to what end? Most people shrug this virus off with mild symptoms its only us old farts and those with severe underlying conditions that are in danger.

Despite all the so call experts and smart folks nothing that has been done has shown effective.

White House Asks CDC to Study How Many Have Died After COVID Vaccine Shots (thedailybeast.com)

A curious fact here. Since the Vaccine was rolled out there have only been 9,000 reports to CDC of people that have taken the vaccine and of those 9,000, 196 have died this represents 2.17% of the 9,000 kinda curious that the death rate from covid without the vaccine is 2% as well.

In my mind there is not one damn thing we have done that has even slowed this down, prevented hysteria or given any indication of a light at the end of the tunnel. There remains two camps of thought. Do everything possible even if it is ineffective or let it run its course which some countries did and they look to be on the other side.
 
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triggrman

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Where did you get your numbers for vaccinated people?
How many Tennesseans have been vaccinated so far?

Also, from the article you posted. They're not saying the vaccine is causing the people to die, they're saying at people in the 75+ age range have a higher rate of death within a year.

Officials aren’t concerned that the vaccine is having adverse effects on a large number of recipients. Instead, they are pushing for the study in order to ensure the federal government has a more complete picture of mortality in the age of the COVID-19 pandemic. The goal is to gather more data about the vaccine, its efficacy, and what happened to the recipients after they got the jab.
It’s an especially pressing issue, given the vulnerable and aging populations receiving the vaccine. According to the CDC, about 3 percent of 75-year-olds die within their next year of life. With millions of people receiving the vaccine, odds are some will die within a matter of weeks or months, for reasons that may or may not have anything to do with COVID-19. It’s also expected that some individuals who receive it will die in between the first and the second dose or after the regiment is completed, officials said, especially if they have a pre-existing illness that is advanced.
 

Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
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Where did you get your numbers for vaccinated people?
How many Tennesseans have been vaccinated so far?

Also, from the article you posted. They're not saying the vaccine is causing the people to die, they're saying at people in the 75+ age range have a higher rate of death within a year.

I know it is difficult to read an entire article so here is the section I refer to.

In an Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) meeting Wednesday, officials from the CDC’s COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Task Force presented preliminary data they have gathered through the VAERS system. (ACIP is a group of medical and public health experts that provides recommendations and public health guidance on the safe use of vaccines).
Slides posted on the CDC’s website shows the federal government has collected a total of more than 9,000 reports through the VAERS system since the COVID-19 vaccine rollout began—an incredibly small percentage of total vaccinations administered. Many of the reports indicate that individuals who have received the vaccine have experienced symptoms like dizziness, nausea, fatigue and chills. The data also shows that VAERS has collected 196 reports of death, though the slides note that the deaths reported to VAERS are not necessarily related to vaccination.

The VAERS system is the data base that the president is using to make decisions. Not my opinion it was confirmed twice this week in the Whitehouse press briefing by Jen Paski. As stated in the quote it is not numbers of total vaccines distributed and administered it is a subset used by the Vaccine Safty Task Force in determining risk of the vaccine. And the point is even though preliminary the death rate due to covid is about the same in this 9,000 subject subset. Why is this important? With 51% of Americans still refusing to take the vaccine it supports there decision. It also impacts the question of herd immunity, other articles report that 60 to 75% of the population would need to be immune to achieve heard immunity and loosen up the draconian policies the government has put in place for almost a year now. The articles also imply that even though one is vaccinated it does not prevent them from being a carrier and while mask usage does not hurt it does not prevent spread significantly. Just a layman note there has been no announcement that once someone is vaccinated they could discontinue face coverings. Another reason to cause pause. Health workers refusing vaccine is new growing US problem | TheHill as of two weeks ago 40% of healthcare workers are refusing vaccination.

Now with all of that the question is have we as a society overreacted to this virus? And to the point of NHL protocols are they too stringent to allow completion of a 56 game season under the time constraints? And most important with a 98% survival rate of the inital virus have we done more harm allowing the virus to mutate without the majority of the population having been exposed and developing some immunity. One thing that has been studied was the mutating of Eboli which has become more and more deadly as the strain evolves. One thing is sure the people are tired of seclusion and disruption of life with no measurable gains in preventing the spread. over 5000 died yesterday with the incubation period less than the amount of time the new administration has been in office. Nothing the political critters have done has had much impact on the virus just the election. Obama and Biden were blamed for there non reaction to the swine flu outbreak in 2009 by political opponents but in hindsight it may have been the right move rather than to isolate people like we are now and just delay infection. Yes people died and people will continue to die while this runs its course. But then again " But while the number of people who died from COVID-19 in the last year is shocking, TB kills about the same number of people — about 1.5-2 million — each year, and has done so for many decades. In fact, it’s estimated that over the last 200 years, more than 1 billion people have died from TB, far more than from any other infectious disease." Roughly the same number of Covid deaths but not near the attention. In 2017 10 million people were infected by TB and 1.3 million died from it, simple math 13% died from TB that year and Covid has killed 2.1% of those infected.
 

Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
7,471
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Thanks, I missed that first paragraph. And yes, it is hard to read that many articles, when you know, I'm supposed to be working, I scheme through most of it.
Thats the advantage of being retired you get to read ALOT. But it is a curse too you have too much time to moll over hockey as well.
 

predfan24

Registered User
Jul 12, 2006
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View attachment 388430

Here's a map showing how the spread is going. Looks like the entire country is finally doing better, even California, who has been mostly terrible throughout. Funny they have the tightest restrictions but the worst outcomes.

Living here I can’t even begin to understand why California has been so consistently bad at this. There are pockets of whackos who made this all about politics (when a virus could care less about that) and between their protests and the BLM protests we had huge crowds that didn’t observe mask discipline. Forget social distancing. Now seeing the state is lagging in vaccine delivery. Something like only 45% of what we have received are in people’s arms at this point. I know there is going to be some innovation that gives this a turbo boost for delivery (way too many brilliant engineers in this state to not come up with something), but California is not a model.

The raw numbers make it look like Cali is doing the worse in the country, but that doesn't account for them being the most populous state in the country. According to Worldometers they are 24th in total cases per 1 million pop and 33rd in deaths per 1 million pop.
 
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predfan24

Registered User
Jul 12, 2006
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I know it is difficult to read an entire article so here is the section I refer to.

In an Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) meeting Wednesday, officials from the CDC’s COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Task Force presented preliminary data they have gathered through the VAERS system. (ACIP is a group of medical and public health experts that provides recommendations and public health guidance on the safe use of vaccines).
Slides posted on the CDC’s website shows the federal government has collected a total of more than 9,000 reports through the VAERS system since the COVID-19 vaccine rollout began—an incredibly small percentage of total vaccinations administered. Many of the reports indicate that individuals who have received the vaccine have experienced symptoms like dizziness, nausea, fatigue and chills. The data also shows that VAERS has collected 196 reports of death, though the slides note that the deaths reported to VAERS are not necessarily related to vaccination.

The VAERS system is the data base that the president is using to make decisions. Not my opinion it was confirmed twice this week in the Whitehouse press briefing by Jen Paski. As stated in the quote it is not numbers of total vaccines distributed and administered it is a subset used by the Vaccine Safty Task Force in determining risk of the vaccine. And the point is even though preliminary the death rate due to covid is about the same in this 9,000 subject subset. Why is this important? With 51% of Americans still refusing to take the vaccine it supports there decision. It also impacts the question of herd immunity, other articles report that 60 to 75% of the population would need to be immune to achieve heard immunity and loosen up the draconian policies the government has put in place for almost a year now. The articles also imply that even though one is vaccinated it does not prevent them from being a carrier and while mask usage does not hurt it does not prevent spread significantly. Just a layman note there has been no announcement that once someone is vaccinated they could discontinue face coverings. Another reason to cause pause. Health workers refusing vaccine is new growing US problem | TheHill as of two weeks ago 40% of healthcare workers are refusing vaccination.

Now with all of that the question is have we as a society overreacted to this virus? And to the point of NHL protocols are they too stringent to allow completion of a 56 game season under the time constraints? And most important with a 98% survival rate of the inital virus have we done more harm allowing the virus to mutate without the majority of the population having been exposed and developing some immunity. One thing that has been studied was the mutating of Eboli which has become more and more deadly as the strain evolves. One thing is sure the people are tired of seclusion and disruption of life with no measurable gains in preventing the spread. over 5000 died yesterday with the incubation period less than the amount of time the new administration has been in office. Nothing the political critters have done has had much impact on the virus just the election. Obama and Biden were blamed for there non reaction to the swine flu outbreak in 2009 by political opponents but in hindsight it may have been the right move rather than to isolate people like we are now and just delay infection. Yes people died and people will continue to die while this runs its course. But then again " But while the number of people who died from COVID-19 in the last year is shocking, TB kills about the same number of people — about 1.5-2 million — each year, and has done so for many decades. In fact, it’s estimated that over the last 200 years, more than 1 billion people have died from TB, far more than from any other infectious disease." Roughly the same number of Covid deaths but not near the attention. In 2017 10 million people were infected by TB and 1.3 million died from it, simple math 13% died from TB that year and Covid has killed 2.1% of those infected.


Debate is great, but there is lots of misleading info here. There is a zero percent chance that the total worldwide deaths reported due to COVID is accurate. Most places don't have the robust health systems or surveillance systems that the U.S. does. After the pandemic is over and experts analyze the data the estimation of deaths worldwide will be adjusted significantly upwards. Comparing it to TB is disingenuous at this point. What is your source for 1 billion TN deaths? I'm skeptical considering the planet didn't reach 1 billion in population until around 1800.

RNA viruses mutate as they replicate. Letting the virus run wild would accomplish the exact opposite as in regards to stopping limiting mutations.

Honestly, I hope to never hear the term "draconian" again after all this was done. All it does is serve to poison an argument and most people use it in the wrong context. China welding people into their apartments was draconian. Being forced to wear a mask in a private business isn't draconian. Limiting indoor dining during an out of control outbreak isn't draconian. Also, the level of your restrictions varies wildly depending on where you live. We have a mask mandate where I live, but it's not enforced. Everything else is business as usual. On the flip side, some areas stayed with restrictions for too long, and at the point when people weren't listening to them they only served to hurt those that followed them and didn't have a significant impact on stopping spread.

Now, this next part is my opinion. I think similar to how we look at people's behavior in societies several hundred years ago as barbaric so will people in the future when looking at this event. In the U.S., the effort was immediately poisoned due to the previous POTUS's rhetoric. I saw a switch flip in people at that point. Love him or hate him, a huge amount of people listened to what he said intently and based their beliefs off his rhetoric. Then, our political leaders, on all sides, completely failed due to inconsistent messaging and policies. We couldn't see past our noses and we ended up getting hit with the worst of all worlds. Too little measures, half measures, unenforced measures led to an inevitable failure. Luckily, science is pretty bad ass and will save us from the worst case scenario.
 

Predsanddead24

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Mar 7, 2019
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I've seen this tuberculosis talking point before and I don't get it. We only have 10,000 cases and 542 deaths per year from tuberculosis in the US each year. We've cleared those numbers from Covid basically every day since March in the US. It shouldn't be particularly surprising that we don't pay as much attention to a disease that isn't a threat to us. It's also not easily communicable like Covid so you're far less likely to catch it from some random person.
 
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Legionnaire11

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I've seen this tuberculosis talking point before and I don't get it. We only have 10,000 cases and 542 deaths per year from tuberculosis in the US each year. We've cleared those numbers from Covid basically every day since March in the US. It shouldn't be particularly surprising that we don't pay as much attention to a disease that isn't a threat to us. It's also not easily communicable like Covid so you're far less likely to catch it from some random person.

Yes, the majority of TB deaths are among those who also have AIDS and live in developing nations, and thus an extremely compromised immune system and inadequate access to healthcare, both prevention and treatment.

Another extremely false claim made in that original erroneous post was in the interpretation of deaths from the vaccine and equating that to the deaths from the virus. There is NOT a 2% mortality rate from the vaccine, there was a 2% mortality rate among those 9000 that reported adverse effects from the vaccine. On top of that, those deaths are not confirmed either way to have been directly caused or not by the vaccine.

Lastly, the assertion that there are nations who "let it runs it's course... and look to be on the other side of it", which is totally false. Sweden attempted that, which is the typical argument here, but they failed miserably with that course and ended up having to implement restrictions to get things under control.

So, it's like a big game of telephone here. You take the data, run it through some less than professional reporting, and then have it interpreted by people who either lack the skills to work through it logically or they have an inherent bias that prevents them from doing so (aided by the former administration as you pointed out) and we end up with posts like the one above that are multiple degrees removed from reality.
 

adsfan

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May 31, 2008
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The raw numbers make it look like Cali is doing the worse in the country, but that doesn't account for them being the most populous state in the country. According to Worldometers they are 24th in total cases per 1 million pop and 33rd in deaths per 1 million pop.

That is true, but due to their population, California is still losing a lot of people per week, like averaging 500 COVID-19 deaths a day.

california covid-19 deaths today - Google Search
 

PredsV82

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Byrd, your statement that other countries have "let it run and are pretty much on the other side" is just inaccurate. Sweden is the closest to having just let it ride and they are still not anywhere close to herd immunity.

The US numbers are starting to turn. The vaccines work, if people are smart enough to take them.
 
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