COVID-19 (Coronavirus)

[Fordy]

Sweden Unveils ‘Promising’ Covid-19 Data as New Cases Plunge

"“With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport,” he said.

Tegnell has consistently argued that Sweden’s approach is more sustainable than the sudden lockdowns imposed elsewhere. With the risk that Covid-19 might be around for years, he says completely shutting down society isn’t a long-term option."

this is the same tegnell who, after stating that in retrospect there were ways sweden could have improved their response, the "sweden is a catastrophe" crowd pointed to as an admission that their no lockdown stance was a failure - something he never said and clearly still doesn't believe

 

[Hockey 4 everyone]

Simple common sense about this whole situation.
1. Healthy people have an absurdly low death rate, and an even low rate of showing symptoms. We should not be locking up healthy people. Herd immunity is a real thing.

2. Early research done from Italy's outbreak showed the virus spread fastest amongst households, not public spaces. Clusters of people who lived together. This information was ignored by our experts, because they essentially put all of us into households and prevented us from going outside. (speaking of cities in particular here)

3. The Diamond Princess cruise ship incident was the perfect case study to understand the threat of the virus. It was a confined, controlled space, where the virus was allowed to spread relatively unopposed - because the passengers didn't know. It occurred early enough for experts to analyze and then incorporate into our plan. Again, it showed the virus was not lethal to healthy people, and did not require such an extreme response. It was ignored.

4. The domino effect that started with the closure of schools, sports leagues, businesses, etc.. was by far - the dumbest response to a pandemic in human history. Especially for a virus such as this. I can only speculate that the motives were political, because even basic human common sense would dictate this response was ineffective and destructive in its own right. Why would you place purposeful economic destruction on top of a viral outbreak?

5. Ignoring Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc. Again, i don't get the desire to have people die needlessly. These drugs have a proven track record for being safe - 60 years of use. And they are CHEAP. They are all well documented to treat similar viruses as to COVID-19, by Dr. Faucci no less (even though he seems to forget this). When this disease is harming lower income communities - mostly because their hospitals are assigning them to ventilators (a death sentence), having a treatment that is cheap and easily acquired could have saved many many lives. Even if it is 1% effective, its still worth trying. Why the opposition and rampant censorship? Is it because the president tweeted about it? I don't know. But lots of people should have their medical degrees turned over once this situation is back under control. Disgusting.

But my biggest pet peeve of all - without a doubt - is reassigning infected patients back into their nursing homes. There is no reason for this to be done outside of malicious intent. The only population that we should have completely locked down is our nursing home patients. And yet these were the people we were housing next to the infected. What the heck? And for anyone who wants to claim this hasn't happened - i have personal experience in this area. A hospital dropped an infected patient off into a nursing home, and then didn't inform the nursing home that the patient was infected for several hours. It resulted in many of the nurses requiring testing. Thankfully none of them were positive. But a huge red flag.

Its no surprise to me that the United States has had a lot of cases and a lot of deaths. We have leadership which seemingly wants people to get sick and to die. Whether for profit, or for political gain. I don't know. But its all right there plain as day.

i disagree with most of your points, but i'm going to focus on number 5 because that's an area i know a bit about. just by coincidence i published a few papers on this medications ocular side effects before this pandemic hit.

hydroxochloroquine is not a "safe" drug.

it's true that it's an older medication and it's pretty well studied. it's effective for many rheumatological diseases like lupus and also has some interesting anti-inflammatory properties that make it useful for treating and/or prophylaxis for things like malaria. i'm not a cardiologist or rheumatologist so i can't speak specifically to its cardiovascular side effects except to say they exist. i'm a vitreoretinal surgeon so i can speak more about its eye side effects--- every ophthalmologist has it drilled into their heads that patients on HCQ therapy need annual eye exams which includes a scan of their retina and testing their visual fields, because the medication can cause the part of the retina corresponding to the center of their vision to basically wither away and die. permanent vision loss, no treatment or therapy can grow back dead retina. the retinal toxicity and atrophy can progress even after stopping the medication. it's also very important to dose the medication correctly to avoid toxicity.

the bottom line is it's a good drug for the right indications (treating lupus, malaria prophylaxis) but it requires careful dosing and monitoring by multiple types of physicians. it shouldn't be pushed to the public unless there is a clear benefit. i wouldn't take it unless i really needed to (terrible lupus or something like that).

i'm in Boston, in what was the third hardest hit state (at least a few months ago), and i don't know any physicians or nurses taking this medication.

​

 

[Hockey 4 everyone]

also trump's former FDA commissioner scott gottlieb was one of the few trump appointees who has been almost universally praised by both democratic and republicans. just this morning, he said "I think at this point, we can definitively say hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. I'm not sure what more we need to do."

Former FDA head Scott Gottlieb: "We can definitively say hydroxychloroquine doesn't work"

gottlieb has no motivation to score political points against the president by arguing against HCQ.

the overwhelming majority of evidence suggests HCQ is not an effective treatment for COVID19, and it has a multitude of severe, permanent side effects. it should not be discussed as a viable treatment option for COVID19.

 

[Andy99]

Young people are infecting older family members in shared homes

 

[Jaded-Fan]

In the article the period covered was over 20 days. From July 8th.

So six cases a day, one hospitalization every two days, one death every 4 days.

 

[Pens1566]

In the article the period covered was over 20 days. From July 8th.

So six cases a day, one hospitalization every two days, one death every 4 days.

I think it's already been pointed out, but your breakdown isn't really an accurate depiction of the rates being discussed.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think it's already been pointed out, but your breakdown isn't really an accurate depiction of the rates being discussed.

I still have no clue why not.

They obviously are rolling with reporting daily covering two to three week periods.

Averaging over the number of days is imperfect but is VASTLY less misleading and closer to true than the implication that these headlines give that it is all on one day, or is a one day average.

No one has shown me that averaging is not the closest that we can get to the real numbers given the limitations.

 

[Pens1566]

I still have no clue why not.

They obviously are rolling with reporting daily covering two to three week periods.

Averaging over the number of days is imperfect but is VASTLY less misleading and closer to true than the implication that these headlines give that it is all on one day, or is a one day average.

No one has shown me that averaging is not the closest that we can get to the real numbers given the limitations.

Assuming each one of these tweets/reports covers a 20 day period, and that 20 day period rolls from each report to the next, you'd need to take each report that covers each day in the 20 day window to get accurate counts.

What you're doing is is getting the avg from only this report, while not including any other reports which would cover the days in question.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Assuming each one of these tweets/reports covers a 20 day period, and that 20 day period rolls from each report to the next, you'd need to take each report that covers each day in the 20 day window to get accurate counts.

What you're doing is is getting the avg from only this report, while not including any other reports which would cover the days in question.

That is way too much work. So averaging daily is close enough. It will show trends, etc.

And as I said, it is WAY closer to the real picture than the misleading headlines.

If someone else wants to do that work have at it. The averages won't change much though.

 

[ColePens]

One of my favorite things Jaded says is that people here think USA has like a monopoly on stupid/ignorant people. I legit laughed watching this quick video. It is a guy who is in London and he was explaining his gym experiences so far. And you could put this in any American city and it's the same mindset.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh boy, don't you love seeing rich people buying property that poor people lost due to a pandemic

It was obviously going to happen. When poor people started having their houses foreclosed when they lost their jobs, rich people jumped at the opportunity to buy real estate for reduced prices and dirt low interest rates. That's capitalism for you. Rich people get richer by investing in more and more property, while poor people are screwed over by the pandemic. I'm willing to bet the fraction of house purchases being in that mold is higher now than it was before the pandemic.

I can't criticize it though, I did the same thing with getting a car. Interest rates are so low right now, my car loan was only 2.79% for a CPO 2019 Sonata.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Although a lot of people are devastated by this financially, the news above ain't that. At least not even close to the majority of the activity.

It is pent up demand and near zero interest rates.

As proof, the houses most in demand are starter homes, not the McMansions which mostly are languishing unsold.

Not everything is a rich stealing from the poor story. As Freud once allegedly said (he never actually did) sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar. Sometimes good news is simply a news.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Although a lot of people are devastated by this financially, the news above ain't that. At least not even close to the majority of the activity.

It is pent up demand and near zero interest rates.

As proof, the houses most in demand are starter homes, not the McMansions which mostly are languishing unsold.

Not everything is a rich stealing from the poor story. As Freud once allegedly said (he never actually did) sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar. Sometimes good news is simply a news.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but frankly I don't see how people can rationalize making such a massive financial commitment in a time with such uncertainty unless they're in a pretty safe spot financially

Right now just seems like an inappropriate time for most people to be buying houses, but maybe I'm just more financially conservative than other people are. Right now seems like it would be a great time to buy houses if you had money saved up and/or a safe, high paying job. Most people don't have that, but then again, I feel like most people in this country aren't smart with making big financial decisions

 

[xlm34]

That is way too much work. So averaging daily is close enough. It will show trends, etc.

And as I said, it is WAY closer to the real picture than the misleading headlines.

If someone else wants to do that work have at it. The averages won't change much though.

Really not sure why you’re being so stubborn on this. I used the numbers reported by Allegheny County and looked at the confirmed cases from July 1-July 20 and the average cases per day was 174.5. Not even close to the numbers you’re saying.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Maybe I'm just jaded, but frankly I don't see how people can rationalize making such a massive financial commitment in a time with such uncertainty unless they're in a pretty safe spot financially

Right now just seems like an inappropriate time for most people to be buying houses, but maybe I'm just more financially conservative than other people are. Right now seems like it would be a great time to buy houses if you had money saved up and/or a safe, high paying job. Most people don't have that, but then again, I feel like most people in this country aren't smart with making big financial decisions

A ton of young people have put off buying homes until much older than generations before them. For many it is becoming if not now then when?

That is part of the problem. Large segments of three generations or maybe four are all competing for a limited supply worsening the problem. With interest rates this low many are finally feeling able to jump in.

Add to it that no one could even go and look at houses during the spring, traditionally the hottest time to sell a house, and you get it.

But as I said, the vast majority of what is moving are starter homes. McMansions that Boomers thought would be their retirement plans are sitting there. Not many young people want these gold plated show places stuck in the hundreds crowded one after another in these neighborhoods that were the rage in the 90's. It simply does not fit younger people's mindsets overall as what to aspire to, even if they can afford them. Their priorities are different. Experiences over things and showing off.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Really not sure why you’re being so stubborn on this. I used the numbers reported by Allegheny County and looked at the confirmed cases from July 1-July 20 and the average cases per day was 174.5. Not even close to the numbers you’re saying.

This is the quote from the tweet:

The Allegheny County Health Department Wednesday reported 125 new COVID-19 cases, 10 more hospitalizations and five additional deaths.

In the linked article the numbers are gathered from July 8 to July 28.

It does not say that those are average numbers over that 20 day period. It says a total of 125 cases, 10 hospitalizations, 5 deaths.

Show me where it says it is an average per day.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

A ton of young people have put off buying homes until much older than generations before them. For many it is becoming if not now then when?

That is part of the problem. Large segments of three generations or maybe four are all competing for a limited supply worsening the problem. With interest rates this low many are finally feeling able to jump in.

Add to it that no one could even go and look at houses during the spring, traditionally the hottest time to sell a house, and you get it.

But as I said, the vast majority of what is moving are starter homes. McMansions that Boomers thought would be their retirement plans are sitting there. Not many young people want these gold plated show places stuck in the hundreds crowded one after another in these neighborhoods that were the rage in the 90's. It simply does not fit younger people's mindsets overall as what to aspire to, even if they can afford them. Their priorities are different. Experiences over things and showing off.

It's actually just that they have less wealth due to older generations consistently voting for policies that solely enhance their own status with no regard for the future. When you combine that with this older generation not retiring and pushing down earnings for younger people for close to a decade, it's not a shock they can't buy a house.

 

[xlm34]

This is the quote from the tweet:



In the linked article the numbers are gathered from July 8 to July 28.

It does not say that those are average numbers over that 20 day period. It says a total of 125 cases, 10 hospitalizations, 5 deaths.

Show me where it says it is an average per day.

My issue is with the way you’re phrasing your 6 cases per day. If someone tells me there were 6 cases a day from July 8 to July 28 I’m going to assume that on say July 20 there were somewhere around 6 total confirmed COVID cases. In reality, we know of at least 161 confirmed cases from tests that day.

So if you want to say, “Bases on this report there were 6 cases per day added on to all of the other cases confirmed so far” fine but to just say 6 cases a day is a bad way of putting it.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's actually just that they have less wealth due to older generations consistently voting for policies that solely enhance their own status with no regard for the future. When you combine that with this older generation not retiring and pushing down earnings for younger people for close to a decade, it's not a shock they can't buy a house.

I am not disagreeing. Not entirely anyways.

Although just like thinking that America is the only place with stupid selfish people when it comes to C-19, the situation of older people voting, younger people not, and older people being selfish, also is a tale as old as time.

Other factors are going on, including a lot of young people wanting to live packed like sardines in coastal cities. I look in Pittsburgh and house prices are not ridiculously expensive at all. And just like in past times those who get educated or acquire skills in demand are getting paid very well.

The issues are for a limited segment. And is more because of the changes in the world, not because of those damn greedy rich, although that makes a better, and easier to use, story.

Just like when we went from an agrarian to an industrial based economy, those who insisted on 'saving' their job on the farm were out of luck. Rightly so, they had to learn new skills. Just as a hundred or so years ago, today unskilled labor is being replaced by robotics and AI, rapidly. It is not going back. Trying to 'save' those jobs is like fighting against the sun rising, impossible.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

My issue is with the way you’re phrasing your 6 cases per day. If someone tells me there were 6 cases a day from July 8 to July 28 I’m going to assume that on say July 20 there were somewhere around 6 total confirmed COVID cases. In reality, we know of at least 161 confirmed cases from tests that day.

So if you want to say, “Bases on this report there were 6 cases per day added on to all of the other cases confirmed so far” fine but to just say 6 cases a day is a bad way of putting it.

Then you have issue with the reporting, not with me. Either the source that your using is misleading, or the news coverage is wrong, because they are reporting those numbers.

 

[KIRK]

Maybe I'm just jaded, but frankly I don't see how people can rationalize making such a massive financial commitment in a time with such uncertainty unless they're in a pretty safe spot financially

Right now just seems like an inappropriate time for most people to be buying houses, but maybe I'm just more financially conservative than other people are. Right now seems like it would be a great time to buy houses if you had money saved up and/or a safe, high paying job. Most people don't have that, but then again, I feel like most people in this country aren't smart with making big financial decisions

Why does it have to be a 'high paying' job. If you've got a steady job that has survived the shutdown job cuts, then the fact is that interest rates are next than nothing for ANY buyers, including those first time buyers who qualify for FHA loans.

BTW, those poor people you referenced elsewhere didn't lose their homes and business and jobs working for small businesses because of the pandemic. They lost their homes and businesses and jobs because of the shutdowns, and there is a sad irony in listening to people (I'm not saying YOU, by the way, more public figures) who effected perhaps the greatest wealth transfer in the history of this country bemoaning the end result. It's why I keep talking about the whole non-medical public policy component of COVID-19 being so complex.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why does it have to be a 'high paying' job. If you've got a steady job that has survived the shutdown job cuts, then the fact is that interest rates are next than nothing for ANY buyers.

BTW, those poor people you referenced elsewhere didn't lose their homes and business and jobs working for small businesses because of the pandemic. They lost their homes and businesses and jobs because of the shutdowns, and there is a sad irony in listening to people (I'm not saying YOU, by the way, more public figures) who effected perhaps the greatest wealth transfer in the history of this country bemoaning the end result. It's why I keep talking about the whole non-medical public policy component of COVID-19 being so complex.

Depends on the prices of houses you're looking at. It seems like all I see in Pittsburgh are $300k+ houses. I wouldn't be comfortable paying that for a house unless I was making like $90k or more.

But again, I'm much more conservative with money than most I think.

 

[KIRK]

Max Minute: CBS News Poll Says 70% Of Americans Would Wait To Get COVID-19 Vaccine, Or Wouldn't Get One At All

(put another way, only 30% would take the vaccine before even waiting to see if it works for the first group of recipients)

 

[xlm34]

Then you have issue with the reporting, not with me. Either the source that your using is misleading, or the news coverage is wrong, because they are reporting those numbers.

Again I’ll link this since it’s my source: COVID-19

My source is Allegheny county which I don’t think is wrong. It’s an accurate representation of the total confirmed case by testing date. Anytime a confirmed case is reported, they’ll add a confirmed case to the date the test was performed. So they’ll take that same 125 total that you linked and add it into the dashboard based on when the test was performed.

This seems like it’s gonna be one of those agree to disagree things. I’d just encourage you to stop posting 6 cases per day since I think it may confuse some people/give them a false idea of the number of cases we actually have.