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Couturier or Schenn?

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flyersfan187

flyersfan187

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One of my favorite things about Cooter to watch are the opposing players reactions to him because he clearly frustrates the top offensive players against him.
 
Starat327

Starat327

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Johnk0728 said:
Who said best? I didn't.... Streit had the "A" because of his extended NHL experience. Bellemare was named "A" with just 2+ years of NHL experience over Voracek who is going into his 10th NHL season. The room did say something. And its pretty clear to see. They don't look at #93 as leader even though he is one of the most experienced guys on the team. And if you are ok with just ok #'s from a forward who is taking up 8.5 mil of the cap for another 7 years than that's a dumb way to try to win a Cup. BTW- Bellemare was last in points in the NHL for players with over 70 games played and had a 48% face off win %. He was terrible last year and everyone on this board was saying the same thing till he got the A and the extension....now he is a glue guy? LOL!
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You didn't say best. I was simply responding to:

" He is not an elite player. Not a leader...just passed for the "A'" fr one of the worst forwards statistically in the NHL. "

which has no bearing as to whether or not he is or isnt a leader, just that the team felt Bellemare was a better one. I don't like Bellemare, but you keep describing his performance as a way to say that he shouldn't have an A, which is asinine. None of us are in the locker room, we don't know what he does, how he motivates people, or whatever. Clearly the room respects him. But that doesnt mean they don't respect Voracek.

Maybe Voracek was offered an A and turned it down because he felt like it would affect his game, or he didnt want the responsibility? You can be a good player without a letter. If im not mistaken, Kane has been in the league since 2008, and he doesn't have a letter. Is he a scrub that no one can learn from?

Also, I'm not even sure why its a conversation. Ovechkin has, and has had, a letter for a long time. Only up until recently could you even remotely debate that he wasnt the best player on that team. Great lot of good that letter is doing him and that team.

Move on to something different. Saying he is a bad player because Bellemare got an A over him is just a dumb argument. If you want to talk about how Voracek may not be worth is contract, we can talk. I believe he's slighly overpaid, but thats the price you pay for UFAs. I cant think of a single UFA contract that is fair "HF value" for the player. You always pay more to keep your stars. Its just the way it works (Toews/Seabrook, anyone?)
 
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MacDonald4MVP

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May 7, 2016
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Starat327 said:
You didn't say best. I was simply responding to:

" He is not an elite player. Not a leader...just passed for the "A'" fr one of the worst forwards statistically in the NHL. "

which has no bearing as to whether or not he is or isnt a leader, just that the team felt Bellemare was a better one. I don't like Bellemare, but you keep describing his performance as a way to say that he shouldn't have an A, which is asinine. None of us are in the locker room, we don't know what he does, how he motivates people, or whatever. Clearly the room respects him. But that doesnt mean they don't respect Voracek.

Maybe Voracek was offered an A and turned it down because he felt like it would affect his game, or he didnt want the responsibility? You can be a good player without a letter. If im not mistaken, Kane has been in the league since 2008, and he doesn't have a letter. Is he a scrub that no one can learn from?

Also, I'm not even sure why its a conversation. Ovechkin has, and has had, a letter for a long time. Only up until recently could you even remotely debate that he wasnt the best player on that team. Great lot of good that letter is doing him and that team.

Move on to something different. Saying he is a bad player because Bellemare got an A over him is just a dumb argument. If you want to talk about how Voracek may not be worth is contract, we can talk. I believe he's slighly overpaid, but thats the price you pay for UFAs. I cant think of a single UFA contract that is fair "HF value" for the player. You always pay more to keep your stars. Its just the way it works (Toews/Seabrook, anyone?)
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Jagr and Hossa don't have letters either, Kopitar got C and his play went to ****. Ovi has question marks surrounding his leadership. Maybe it doesn't come as naturally to eastern europeans.
 
Starat327

Starat327

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MacDonald4MVP said:
Jagr and Hossa don't have letters either, Kopitar got C and his play went to ****. Ovi has question marks surrounding his leadership. Maybe it doesn't come as naturally to eastern europeans.
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Yup. I only picked a few examples. I'm sure i could find a plethora of people who have/don't have letters to support the argument that its not about performance, and why using that as an argument is idiotic.

I believe Steve Ott usually got letters on whichever team he went to.
 
Curufinwe

Curufinwe

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What's more unfair? The 8% of the vote he's gotten in this poll, or the 9 minutes of average ice time Jon Cooper trusted him with at the World Champs.
 

daa5250

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May 3, 2016
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Johnk0728 said:
Huh? I actually want Couturier on the Flyers as a 3/4 line center and PK'er but comments like this by you Couturier-ites are embarrassing. Couturier is a .56 ppg guy over the last two years. His career PPG is under .5. You guys have this love for him ala the Hinkey/process guys that you are not rational. The Flyers set up their team to rely on him for offense over the last few years and that thinking completely failed as his offense didn't take a huge jump to the next level & the Flyers have not won a playoff series and have missed the playoffs in 2 out of the last 3 years. He is not elite or a core piece. he is good complimentary 3rd liner. Even Hextall has seen that Couturier is really a defensive/checking player. He traded for a center at the deadline. Stop acting like he is an all-star. He is not close to it. Be honest....he has a good NHL player so far. He is going into his 7th NHL season maybe he finally scores 20 goals and 55 points. But until he does it; you cant say that he is that player. he also needs to stay healthy. We do not need 3 years in a row with another significant injury....
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At 5v5, which i should have specified, Couturier has scored at a top 6 rate the last 2 years. Last year he led the Flyers in 5v5 scoring per TOI and this past year he quietly scored more overall 5v5 points than any other Flyer despite playing just 69 games. Couturier has played a top 6 level and been the best Flyers 5v5 player the past 2 seasons.

Last year among forwards who played 300 minutes Couturier was 55th in the league in 5v5 scoring per TOI ahead of players like Malkin, Backstrom, Forsberg, Perry etc. Even with only 8 PP points he was on pace for 51 pts.

This past year Couturier wasnt as great at 5v5 scoring per TOI but finished 115th in in which is still top 6. The Flyers being horrendous at 5v5 and Couturier actually leading them in 5v5 scoring in just 69 games gives his numbers a lot more merit as well.

The past 2 years were the 1st where Couturier wasnt in a solely shutdown role and actually had skilled linemates. Even then the past 2 years he still played some of the toughest minutes in the league. Over those 2 seasons he has been the best 5v5 scorer on the team while being elite defensively. It's disingenuous to look at his final stats the last 2 years and not include his missed games and being relegated to the 2nd PP unit affecting it.
 
Curufinwe

Curufinwe

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daa5250 said:
The past 2 years were the 1st where Couturier wasnt in a solely shutdown role and actually had skilled linemates. Even then the past 2 years he still played some of the toughest minutes in the league. Over those 2 seasons he has been the best 5v5 scorer on the team while being elite defensively. It's disingenuous to look at his final stats the last 2 years and not include his missed games and being relegated to the 2nd PP unit affecting it.
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After 14-15 when he was stuck with Umberger and a hobbled Matt Read and given 40% OZ starts by Berube, a lot of us said he would score more with non-awful linemates and a few more chances to play in offensive situations. And that's exactly what happened. His 5 on 5 Points/60 jumped from 1.44 in 13-15, up to 1.76 in 15-17. And his total production went from 76 in 164 games (0.46 PPG), to 73 in 129 games (0.57 PPG).

Aside from that, Couturier is also by far the team's best possession forward and this season turned into a great faceoff guy as well. Those two aspects of his game don't get mentioned enough, especially considering that we all saw what happened to Schenn (who is a poor possession player and not good at faceoffs) and his wingers when he was used down the middle in 16-17.

It's pathetic that this guy is still pushing the false narrative that Hextall traded for Filppula to take Couturier's place when it was Schenn who lost his place at center, and Couturier thoroughly outplayed Filppula in the 20 games after the deadline. Hextall also never called Couturier a "defensive/checking player", and in fact he fired the coach who insisted on using Couturier in that manner.
 
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MacDonald4MVP

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Unlike good 3rd line checking center couts, schenn is an all star. In all seriousness that skills comp was a total farce and couts is better off not going.

Hardest shot comp felt cheap without Chara or Weber, those stupid neon targets ruined shooting part, skills relay was a joke, took all the creativity and fun out of shootout and even managed to make fastest skater comp worse by having players go one at the time. Only thing left to do was having the it in freaking china.
 
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