Couturier or Schenn?

[BernieParent]

Just to follow up an asinine conversation on the trade board.

You can keep one player, Sean Couturier or Brayden Schenn. Done entirely in a vacuum, who stays?

I chose Couturier for two reasons.

• Couturier is hands-down the better player.
• Schenn could totally survive in a vacuum for an extended period of time.

 

[Starat327]

I want to move Voracek because of the contract. I do not want to pay 8.25 mil for 7 more dam years for his lazy ass play. The value in moving him is the anvil of the contract that hextall gave is gone. He is not an elite player. Not a leader...just passed for the "A'" fr one of the worst forwards statistically in the NHL. Giroux is not going anywhere at this time...he is damage goods. Voracek at 7 more years at a 8.25 mil cap hit? Are you ok with that? I am not.....

Being given an A or not has notbing to do with his contract. Leaders aren't your highest paid players, or even your best. They Are your best 'team' guys. Since neither your or I are in the locker room, we don't know what Bellemare brings off the ice. Streit was an A and he wasn't our beat defensemen. Simmonds hasn't been our best ayer, but he had an A. Sorry, that's just a dumb argument.

I think both G and V bounce back to normal 60-65 points they won't be elite, but they'll be first line players. Whether I'm ok with their contract is irrelevant because there's nothing you can do about them now. I'd rather have those two overpaid by a little then continue to play the UFA game like we used to, that's for sure.

 

[PK16]

I chose Couturier for two reasons.

• Couturier is hands-down the better player.
• Schenn could totally survive in a vacuum for an extended period of time.

Great Post!

 

[Striiker]

Being given an A or not has notbing to do with his contract. Leaders aren't your highest paid players, or even your best. They Are your best 'team' guys. Since neither your or I are in the locker room, we don't know what Bellemare brings off the ice. Streit was an A and he wasn't our beat defensemen. Simmonds hasn't been our best ayer, but he had an A. Sorry, that's just a dumb argument.

I think both G and V bounce back to normal 60-65 points they won't be elite, but they'll be first line players. Whether I'm ok with their contract is irrelevant because there's nothing you can do about them now. I'd rather have those two overpaid by a little then continue to play the UFA game like we used to, that's for sure.

Yep. He just used the worst logic possible to try to argue for trading Voracek. He's too angry to think straight, I guess. You can always tell when someone is ruled by emotion instead of logic.

 

[daa5250]

Is there a problem with wanting a different core? These two players don't have it as you can see with all the playoff teams. They are to slow for todays game.

Couturier is one of the best defensive forwards in the league that has scored at a top 6 rate the last 2 years ... Saying Couturier is too slow for the game is laughable. Every team in the league would be better with him.

 

[Lotusflower]

Why do people want to deal the elite pieces of our core again?

I get wanting a different look but people act like there's no chance these players who were elite just a season or two ago cant climb back up into that ballpark with the help of our additions on defense and in the bottom 6.

I'd rather see what we have with the veteran/youth mix we can actually project somewhat accurately rather than dealing them for unknown quantities

 

[Laveuglette]

Couturier, but I'd keep both. Let's have three great lines.

 

[Curufinwe]

Couturier is one of the best defensive forwards in the league that has scored at a top 6 rate the last 2 years ... Saying Couturier is too slow for the game is laughable. Every team in the league would be better with him.

Don't you know that every forward in the top 9 of the conference finalists is a really fast skater who scored 50+ points this season?

 

[Striiker]

Couturier is one of the best defensive forwards in the league that has scored at a top 6 rate the last 2 years ... Saying Couturier is too slow for the game is laughable. Every team in the league would be better with him.

They're "too slow for today's game"... but then look at the kind of people he's said he wants to add. He wants to get rid of real players and add 4th line plugs.

No matter who they get, he'll complain. It's all he does, it's all he can do.

 

[flyersfan018]

Couturier is one of the best defensive forwards in the league that has scored at a top 6 rate the last 2 years ... Saying Couturier is too slow for the game is laughable. Every team in the league would be better with him.

You're arguing with the type of guy that was probably a huge Rinaldo fan. He likes to see people that hit hard instead of people with other actual hockey skills.

 

[Johnk0728]

Couturier is one of the best defensive forwards in the league that has scored at a top 6 rate the last 2 years ... Saying Couturier is too slow for the game is laughable. Every team in the league would be better with him.

Huh? I actually want Couturier on the Flyers as a 3/4 line center and PK'er but comments like this by you Couturier-ites are embarrassing. Couturier is a .56 ppg guy over the last two years. His career PPG is under .5. You guys have this love for him ala the Hinkey/process guys that you are not rational. The Flyers set up their team to rely on him for offense over the last few years and that thinking completely failed as his offense didn't take a huge jump to the next level & the Flyers have not won a playoff series and have missed the playoffs in 2 out of the last 3 years. He is not elite or a core piece. he is good complimentary 3rd liner. Even Hextall has seen that Couturier is really a defensive/checking player. He traded for a center at the deadline. Stop acting like he is an all-star. He is not close to it. Be honest....he has a good NHL player so far. He is going into his 7th NHL season maybe he finally scores 20 goals and 55 points. But until he does it; you cant say that he is that player. he also needs to stay healthy. We do not need 3 years in a row with another significant injury....

 

[Johnk0728]

Being given an A or not has notbing to do with his contract. Leaders aren't your highest paid players, or even your best. They Are your best 'team' guys. Since neither your or I are in the locker room, we don't know what Bellemare brings off the ice. Streit was an A and he wasn't our beat defensemen. Simmonds hasn't been our best ayer, but he had an A. Sorry, that's just a dumb argument.

I think both G and V bounce back to normal 60-65 points they won't be elite, but they'll be first line players. Whether I'm ok with their contract is irrelevant because there's nothing you can do about them now. I'd rather have those two overpaid by a little then continue to play the UFA game like we used to, that's for sure.

Who said best? I didn't.... Streit had the "A" because of his extended NHL experience. Bellemare was named "A" with just 2+ years of NHL experience over Voracek who is going into his 10th NHL season. The room did say something. And its pretty clear to see. They don't look at #93 as leader even though he is one of the most experienced guys on the team. And if you are ok with just ok #'s from a forward who is taking up 8.5 mil of the cap for another 7 years than that's a dumb way to try to win a Cup. BTW- Bellemare was last in points in the NHL for players with over 70 games played and had a 48% face off win %. He was terrible last year and everyone on this board was saying the same thing till he got the A and the extension....now he is a glue guy? LOL!

 

[Striiker]

It's as if he goes out of his way to figure out what the dumbest argument would be... and then uses it....

Imagine writing that and not realizing how stupid it sounds.

 

[Tripod]

So now Couts is a #3/4?

It's amazing hiw people can't see he produces as a #2 C at ES. It's ONLY on the #2 unit PP where he does not produce. That same PP that Provy and Konecny don't produce.

 

[NatP4]

It's as if he goes out of his way to figure out what the dumbest argument would be... and then uses it....

Imagine writing that and not realizing how stupid it sounds.

You do it all the time.

*proceeds to argue about 76/80 points*

 

[Striiker]

You do it all the time.

*proceeds to argue about 76/80 points*

What year did Eberle "hit 80 points" again? You were so sure, but I couldn't find it.

I just wanna make sure that you guys do realize that Eberle hit 80 points right?

You very specifically said "Eberle hit 80 points". Hmmmm... almost as if you just argue without knowing what you're talking about...



It's like saying "I just wanna make sure that you guys do realize that the Flyers won the cup in 2010 right?". Then, when someone says they actually didn't, get all indignant and complain that they're arguing about a difference of two games.

 

[Johnk0728]

So now Couts is a #3/4?

It's amazing hiw people can't see he produces as a #2 C at ES. It's ONLY on the #2 unit PP where he does not produce. That same PP that Provy and Konecny don't produce.

The ES thing is only carved about you CORSI guys. How is a sub .5 ppg acceptable as #2 NHL center? Its not. # 2 NHL center need to produce goals and have an overall game. Couturier has not done that over his career at a high level. He is not skilled enough..... That's the truth. You guys can pat each other all you want. But even he GM realized it.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

God help me for getting back into this, but why does a 2C HAVE to be more oriented towards offense than defense? Shouldn't merit rather than style determine a depth chart?

I never used a player's name, so please don't either. I'm trying to take the connotation away and talk about an approach to team building, not the Flyers.

 

[Tripod]

The ES thing is only carved about you CORSI guys. How is a sub .5 ppg acceptable as #2 NHL center? Its not. # 2 NHL center need to produce goals and have an overall game. Couturier has not done that over his career at a high level. He is not skilled enough..... That's the truth. You guys can pat each other all you want. But even he GM realized it.

I am FAR from a Corsi guy. I leave that to the Appleyards of the world.

When you do a lineup or depth chart, is it not 5vs5? Only ignorant people ignored that Couturier was:

1st in 5vs5 points
1st in 5vs5 goals

....on the Flyers this year.

The ONLY time Couts does not produce like all the other top 6 guys...is the 1:50 a game on the PP. Instead, he delivers elite defensive ability every time he touches the ice.

You said the GM even realized it. Because of Flip? You mean the guy who couldn't outscore Couts when he got to Philly?

I LOVE that we got the #2 pick and are hopefully getting a 60 point center. But what I also realize is that to be that 60 point guy, he likely has to be on PP #1, not #2. But more importantly, I hope he is a good ES point producer because our lineup has enough PP dependent guys in our top 6.

And I have said it before, is Provorov not a 1st pairing guy since he did not produce on the #2unit PP? Of course not.

Hopefully our top 6 players can outscore our 3rd line C 5vs5 next year.

 

[Striiker]

Filppula wasn't brought in to replace Couturier, he was added to make sure we didn't need to suffer through Schenn at center anymore...

 

[Tripod]

Filppula wasn't brought in to replace Couturier, he was added to make sure we didn't need to suffer through Schenn at center anymore...

Ssshhhhh....that doesn't fit their arguement.

 

[Curufinwe]

Since Couturier was actually given the 2C role by Hakstol, his PPG is actually 0.57.

In the games after the deadline, Couturier also had twice as many points as the guy the GM supposedly bought in to replace him as the 2C. The guy who has one year left on his contract compared to five for Couturier.

 

[Striiker]

On top of that, Couturier outplayed his "replacement", 18:56 TOI/GP vs 17:07 TOI/GP (from the trade deadline til the end of the year).

Also, Couturiers TOI/GP after the trade deadline is more than he averaged from the start of the year until the trade deadline... 18:56 TOI/GP vs 18:13 TOI/GP. Weird that they sign someone to replace him and then play him EVEN MORE than before.

 

[hatcher]

They all looked like ****.

 

[Tripod]

Since Couturier was actually given the 2C role by Hakstol, his PPG is actually 0.57.

In the games after the deadline, Couturier also had twice as many goals and points as the guy the GM supposedly bought in to replace him as the 2C. The guy who has one year left on his contract compared to five for Couturier.

In the end, it really doesn't' matter. With us getting the #2 pick, we should have 3 centers that teams now need to deal with. No more Laughton as the #2 C. No more Cousins as the #3 C. Adding Flip was a good move for this reason. Getting the #2 pick was a massive bonus in building our C depth.