Couturier or RNH?

bluechipbonzo

Registered User
Feb 12, 2010
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Ottawa
A team that is a little deeper may take RNH over SC given that the former will need a wee bit more time to develop- whereas SC has the NHL body already and could step in and play sooner.

Remember that elite speed and offensive awareness cannot be taught (in the post-lockout NHL, it's not about size anymore-hello, Mr. Kane), and by most accounts, RNH has both in spades.

Projection wise, I take the player who has the potential to top out as the BPA, not the one who looks better now.
 

Ironslave

Registered User
May 22, 2008
530
1
A team that is a little deeper may take RNH over SC given that the former will need a wee bit more time to develop- whereas SC has the NHL body already and could step in and play sooner.

Remember that elite speed and offensive awareness cannot be taught (in the post-lockout NHL, it's not about size anymore-hello, Mr. Kane), and by most accounts, RNH has both in spades.

Projection wise, I take the player who has the potential to top out as the BPA, not the one who looks better now.

Couturier is going to need time to fully develop as well. He's a tall guy, taller than RNH is, and tall players usually take some more time to develop, especially with coordination and skating. RNH obviously needs to fill out more though.

Id be concerned about how little RNH is scoring goals, if he's struggling to put the puck in the net in junior, he's going to have a tall task ahead of him in the NHL. I see Couturier's basement being a Jordan Staal type offensive player and around as good defensively, while his ceiling is a mix of Eric Staal's offense and Jordan's defense. That's a pretty valuable package.
 

4Isles4*

Guest
If the devils pick first they take Larsson if the Isles pick first they take Couturier....we win either way...RNH is top 10....
 

Karlssonlee

Registered User
Jan 13, 2009
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A team that is a little deeper may take RNH over SC given that the former will need a wee bit more time to develop- whereas SC has the NHL body already and could step in and play sooner.

Remember that elite speed and offensive awareness cannot be taught (in the post-lockout NHL, it's not about size anymore-hello, Mr. Kane), and by most accounts, RNH has both in spades.

Projection wise, I take the player who has the potential to top out as the BPA, not the one who looks better now.

Exactly,

RNH imo has the better upside. His vision and awareness is pretty remarkable part of his game. His goal scoring ability will pick up with time. He has a great wrister, he just hasn't found the confidence to use it yet.
 

SDig14

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
12,029
1,143
Edmonton, AB
My interest is offensive upside. If Both Players reach their potential how many 80-100 point seasons should each have in their first ten years?

That's a really tough projection to make...even scouts would get those type of estimations wrong on a regular basis because you are asking how many seasons will either of these 17-18 year olds be top 10, maybe even top 5, in league scoring

Even guys like Duchene, Hall, Tavares, etc. may not hit 100 points in their entire career so it's tough to say

With that being said, I don't think many people will argue when I say RNH has the higher pure offensive upside than Couturier

The problem is the both play such different games...for example, if RNH ended up with a franchise that had a great centre, such as Tampa with Stamkos, and had to play on the 2nd line for most of his career, it would greatly affect him because he is primarily a pass-first player and generates a lot of offense by distributing to goal scorers...Couturier with his size can probably generate more goal scoring with less to work with but he doesn't have the puck distribution skills that RNH has

Truthfully, I think both players will never see 100 points and they both have upside in the 80+ range...my guess is both guys hit the 80 mark a few times (2-3), but the both settle into the 70 point range...RNH maybe ends up like Plekanec or a faster and better defensive Mike Ribeiro....Couturier could be somewhere between the Staal brothers, not as good as Eric but maybe more offense than Jordan with a little less defensive play
 

Gervess

@Gervess
Jan 3, 2011
143
0
Gatineau, Quebec
I would take Couturier and with his play at the WJC he is pretty good and he keeps getting better and better each games. But Larsson is also good but he's deceiving me right now I tough he would have a bigger impact with the Sweden team, btw he've score with a canon shot against Russia (the semi-final game)
 

Philly85*

I Ain't Even Mad
Mar 28, 2009
15,845
3
Yup, but the thing is, no one knows whether it will transfer over to the NHL because he seems so frail. (It's easier said than done to put on weight..especially since he doesn't really have the genetics for it...I think his dad is pretty small too)

they said the same things about Joe Sakic. not sayin but im sayin...
 

SDig14

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
12,029
1,143
Edmonton, AB
Couturier. Comparable skill, more size, better instincts.

Better instincts? No. Also, nowhere near as good of a skater. Lastly, his vision is probably not as good as RNH either.

It's a tough debate because Couturier clearly has the size and strength advantage right now, but if that gap is slowly decreased as both these kids become men in a few years, scouts may be wishing they took RNH.

Both kids show a lot of promise so it might come down to personal team preference and not one being clearly better than the other.
 

PBOPETEFAN

Registered User
Oct 30, 2010
6
0
RNH or Courtourier? I say neither.

I watched the WJC game and Courtourier did not stand out to me. Skating is definitely an issue. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, but 1st overall? He is playing his third year in the Q and should be as good or better than many players on Team Canada, but I just don't see it. WJC may have actully hurt him for the draft.


RNH. I would like to see him play against his peers from the OHL and Q. His offence has not been spectacular this year. Certainly not good enough to warrant all of the hype around him.
 

Tra La La

Registered User
Feb 13, 2003
4,707
0
Buffalo, New York
RNH or Courtourier? I say neither.

I watched the WJC game and Courtourier did not stand out to me. Skating is definitely an issue. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, but 1st overall? He is playing his third year in the Q and should be as good or better than many players on Team Canada, but I just don't see it. WJC may have actully hurt him for the draft.


RNH. I would like to see him play against his peers from the OHL and Q. His offence has not been spectacular this year. Certainly not good enough to warrant all of the hype around him.


Wow! I thought I was alone! I just don't see it.
 

SDig14

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
12,029
1,143
Edmonton, AB
Wow! I thought I was alone! I just don't see it.

You're definitely not alone with respect to the skating issue. His skating is a pretty commonly looked to flaw in his game. However, I think he size lessens the magnitude of his skating quite a bit too.

I have only seen him 3x other than this tournament but I don't think he is playing his best right now IMO.

In the end though, #1 overall is a relative position. You don't have to be the next Stamkos to be the most sought after prospect in a given year.
 

8BostonRocker24

Registered User
Feb 8, 2006
9,275
8
Silicon Valley
I wouldn't agree with this at all. Nugent-Hopkins and Murphy both have as much potential or more than Couturier and Larsson, just less of a chance to get there.

Before the season I'd have said Nugent-Hopkins definitely, now, Couturier slighly above.

At this point, the top 5 as I see it could all be in diffrent spots in the top 5.(Larsson, Couturier, RNH, Murphy, Landeskog)

IMO
I think there is a drop at 3 & 5. To me Larsson and Couturier are on one level, RNH, Murphy & Landeskog are on the next level, then there is another drop to the next level.


This reminds me a lot of the Erik Johnson draft... The top-5 were pretty set in stone and there was a race to get in the top-5.
 

8BostonRocker24

Registered User
Feb 8, 2006
9,275
8
Silicon Valley
If a team patience and can wait for rnh to get bigger and stronger, they will an amazingly talented kid in their system...if guys like gagner, duchene, parise, Kane, etc can all get to a suitable weight for the NHL, I highly doubt rnh is incapable of getting to 190 pounds
One of these is not like the other...
 

umwoz

Registered User
Feb 28, 2010
4,274
40
Enlighten me?

It was a comment on the players you grouped together. I'm sure you know which player is at quite a lower level than the rest.

Plus, most of the players you listed didn't have questions as to whether they were really over 160lbs.
 

SDig14

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
12,029
1,143
Edmonton, AB
It was a comment on the players you grouped together. I'm sure you know which player is at quite a lower level than the rest.

Plus, most of the players you listed didn't have questions as to whether they were really over 160lbs.

Yes, but I wanted to see which part he was going to say :laugh:

The post was strictly players that are small in stature being able to get to a weight that will allow them to succeed at the NHL level. So if he mentioned that Gagner was clearly not in that group then it would have shown he didn't bother reading the post at all and simply looked at a group of names and made a comment.

I meant to edit the post but I didn't remember which one I posted this in...I though Duchene was a little lighter going into the draft than he actually was...ISS had him at like 195 which surprised me a bit

Either way, RNH is about 6'0 and 165 right now so I was simply trying to show how stupid it is to assume that a 17 year old kid that's 6 feet tall won't be able to bulk up enough to play in the NHL...180+ is all you need if you are a talented player like the players I listed
 

State of Hockey

Registered User
Oct 9, 2006
13,162
463
I've definitely soured some on Couturier this WJC. He certainly has some skill, but where's the finish? I really don't know who I would take #1. I wish I could have seen Landeskog play.
 

Isles727

Registered User
Nov 20, 2010
56
25
It is clear that there is no big time star coming out of this draft, RNH, Couturier, Larsson, and Landeskog are not Tavares, Stamkos, Hall, or Doughty ( in case of Larsson). I think right now Landeskog and even Saad could be the stars of this draft although Larsson showed me a lot with his terrific performance today against the Russians. I am not convinced Couturier has very high end offensive skills ( finishing skills) although he does have a very nice shot. RNH lack of goals worries me as he may need to play with elite wingers for him to generate a lot of points in NHL.
 

R S

Registered User
Sep 18, 2006
25,468
10
RNH or Courtourier? I say neither.

I watched the WJC game and Courtourier did not stand out to me. Skating is definitely an issue. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, but 1st overall? He is playing his third year in the Q and should be as good or better than many players on Team Canada, but I just don't see it. WJC may have actully hurt him for the draft.


RNH. I would like to see him play against his peers from the OHL and Q. His offence has not been spectacular this year. Certainly not good enough to warrant all of the hype around him.

Yes, I bet you would like to see him play, because it's obvious you have NEVER seen him play.

His offense has not been spectacular this year? He leads the freaking WHL in assists as a 17 year old! How is that not very impressive?

Maybe if you watched him play an actual game, you would understand the hype around him.


And to be honest, his style of game is a VERY good fit for the OHL or Q league. If he played in a league like that he would be even more dangerous than he is now. The WHL is known as being a tighter checking league for the most part, and RNH is fitting in more than alright buddy.
 

GetThePuckOut

Registered User
Mar 8, 2010
6,407
0
Calgary
I don't know why Couturier is getting such bad reviews for this WJC performance. He's made a lot of great passes from the boards and dominates puck possession as well as anyone in the tournament.
 

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