Friedman: Could the pens retain salary on phil kessel?

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Ask yourself why Pittsburgh would trade a 92 point player who was a critical part of 2 Cup wins for anything less than fair value.
I'm just speaking from experience because Leafs fans thought they would get a fair value in return knowing Kessel's potential for scoring goals. So that's why Penguins fans should not assume the same thing until it actually happens.
 

BHD

Vejmelka for Vezina
Dec 27, 2009
38,124
16,511
Moncton, NB
It is understood that everything from Friedman is "purely speculation" at this point. The guy is as reliable as the guy you talk puck with at Tim Horton's.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,530
21,073
I'm just speaking from experience because Leafs fans thought they would get a fair value in return knowing Kessel's potential for scoring goals. So that's why Penguins fans should not assume the same thing until it actually happens.

Kessel was in an untenable position and coming off a down year in Toronto. Neither is the case now.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,612
17,954
Evander Kane, a much worse hockey player than Phil Kessel got 7 million.


The Pens wouldn't need to retain at all on Kessel to get an elite return. He already has great value.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,612
17,954
Klefbom + for kessel retained ?

There isn't a + on the Oilers that would interest me for Kessel.. Let alone a retained Kessel, Outside of Drai and McDavid of course.

Really not that fond of Klefbom after seeing his poor play this year. So it would need to be a better peice than him.
 

WesMcCauley

Registered User
Apr 24, 2015
8,616
2,600
Friedman is about as reliable as Eklund.

Agreed. His "31 Thoughts" blog is no different than hockeybuzz.

People need to understand that Friedman isnt saying these trades are done deals. He talks about rumors, discusses talks going on between teams etc. He isnt saying these trades are happening, he is saying teams are discussing these players and looking at their trade value etc. I think its fine, its fun to read and creates some fun conversations.

He calls it 31 thoughts, not 31 things that are going to happen. Its fine if people think thats "dumb" but there are a million conversations between teams and players ever season, very few deals happens.
He is giving us (fans) a chance to be a part of some behind the scenes stuff which i think is great. He isnt trying to only give us 100% done deals or trades that have 50% chance of happening and i think thats important to understand if you are going to enjoy the things he writes and what he talks about on the podcast with Jeff Marek.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,292
25,206
a) Unless we mug someone as a consequence, plz no and I don't see why we'd do it.

b) It'd be nice to have a Kessel thread where we don't have an argument with Leafs fans about the difference between then and now. But since that hasn't happened, lets just lead with the biggest difference:

Rutherford doesn't have to trade him and maybe doesn't want to. You guys got mugged because you felt like you pretty much had to trade. Most signs point to Rutherford being happy to take his Phil home and stop playing if that happens.

c) I think Mackey speculated that the Pens would be willing to retain to Letang for the right return, so maybe Friedman isn't completely full of it. I don't like the idea but pretty sure Friedman didn't come up with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riptide

molon labe

Registered User
Jul 13, 2016
4,567
2,936
Florida
Retained Kessel only happens if a STUD young defensemen is coming back and on his ELC (for the two teams to work salary). Kessel just put up 92 points and is now on a bargain contract. If he were an UFA people would be screaming that he's about to get PAID after what Kane just earned. His value is only low because...well...the internet - and his name was mentioned in trade.

Not sure what team out there has such an item who want a win-now piece like Kessel...because the Pens are in win-now mode and Kessel is a win-now piece. We're not looking for futures at his expense... and nobody with a stud young winger is looking to trade them for an older more expensive winger (even if they produce more) unless they're desperate for that last missing piece.
 

Son Goku

henlo u stinky egg
Mar 8, 2014
11,884
2,171
The World Of Void
Kessel at 6.8 million would return less than what many here would think, but it's a stupid thing to do unless you're getting a under 25 player back who can slot right into the lineup in his spot + picks/prospects
A 80-90 point player and playoff beast at only 6.8 million wouldn't garner a large return? Thanks guru what else can you predict for us?
 

CaliforniaBlues310

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
4,544
3,506
San Pedro, CA.
You’d think Armstrong would be in on him if he’s actually available. He’d fit wonderfully with Schwartz/Schenn. Tarasenko would play with whatever center we pick up, and one of Fabbri/Steen. Would make for a wonderful top 6.
 

Brock Radunske

안양종합운동장 빙상장
Aug 8, 2012
16,787
4,701
I've lost faith in HF. You guys read his 31 thoughts as rumours. It really is amazing that some of you don't understand the difference between his opinion and what he's actually reporting.
I don't. That's exactly my point. People here take his word as gospel when in fact it's all just musings.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,292
25,206
You’d think Armstrong would be in on him if he’s actually available. He’d fit wonderfully with Schwartz/Schenn. Tarasenko would play with whatever center we pick up, and one of Fabbri/Steen. Would make for a wonderful top 6.

Any idea what he'd be interested in offering?
 

greasysnapper

Registered User
Apr 6, 2018
2,588
1,694
A 80-90 point player and playoff beast at only 6.8 million wouldn't garner a large return? Thanks guru what else can you predict for us?

The Malkin/Crosby factor, age (31 when the season starts), and the fact that he probably can't run in all systems makes me think his value probably wouldn't be as high as some people here expect. He'll still get a nice return, but it's not going to be a kings ransom.

Yes, the guy put up 92 points, but 42 were on the PP with Crosby AND Malkin, and he played a large chunk of the season, EV on Malkin's wing. Kessel is a fantastic player, but if you think he's driving the play more than a Malkin or Crosby, you're dreaming. His stats are INFLATED. Think of it like this, and this is a much more exaggerated example, would you pay top dollar for 2005-06 Cheechoo? He put up 50 something goals, 90 something points. No way, cause everyone knows the reason for his success was his center.
 

DudeWhereIsMakar

Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
Apr 25, 2014
15,597
6,620
Winnipeg
I think it's smart to trade him to a team that's rebuilding and needing to fill up cap space, then they later trade Kessel and retain as high as half of his salary.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,292
25,206
The Malkin/Crosby factor, age (31 when the season starts), and the fact that he probably can't run in all systems makes me think his value probably wouldn't be as high as some people here expect. He'll still get a nice return, but it's not going to be a kings ransom.

Yes, the guy put up 92 points, but 42 were on the PP with Crosby AND Malkin, and he played a large chunk of the season, EV on Malkin's wing. Kessel is a fantastic player, but if you think he's driving the play more than a Malkin or Crosby, you're dreaming. His stats are INFLATED. Think of it like this, and this is a much more exaggerated example, would you pay top dollar for 2005-06 Cheechoo? He put up 50 something goals, 90 something points. No way, cause everyone knows the reason for his success was his center.

The Pens scored more with Kessel pairing with one of Sheahan and Brassard than they did with Malkin this season. Haven't worked out whether that's reflected in his personal stats, but if you compare his ES stats with his ES stats from his days in Toronto and, unless you think he's declined drastically, there's nothing suspicious or surprising about Kessel putting up 50 ES points without a superstar's help. Being with Malkin/Crosby/Hornqvist is probably inflating his PP stats, but Kessel was also a hugely important part of that unit.

He's likely a ~80 point winger at any half-decent team on the NHL; he doesn't need Sid and Geno for that.
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,015
11,021
Murica
Kessel at 6.8 million would return less than what many here would think, but it's a stupid thing to do unless you're getting a under 25 player back who can slot right into the lineup in his spot + picks/prospects

How do you figure? That is a bargain for a player like Kessel, watts and all.
 

TOGuy14

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
12,061
3,571
Toronto
61 points @8mill, zero cups
vs
92 points @6.8mill, 2 cups, CS performance
Terrible logic

Kessel averaged 0.88 points a game in Toronto and has averaged 0.90 PPG in Pittsburgh.

He is exactly the same player now as he was then, he just had a much stronger supporting cast.
 

MeinerEiner

Registered User
Dec 9, 2013
1,247
947
Cologne
You’d think Armstrong would be in on him if he’s actually available. He’d fit wonderfully with Schwartz/Schenn. Tarasenko would play with whatever center we pick up, and one of Fabbri/Steen. Would make for a wonderful top 6.

What´s your offer?
Looking for a Top4 D and a Sprong like prospect + a pick
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,407
78,003
Redmond, WA
Terrible logic

Kessel averaged 0.88 points a game in Toronto and has averaged 0.90 PPG in Pittsburgh.

He is exactly the same player now as he was then, he just had a much stronger supporting cast.

It's almost like the most important season when it comes to trade value is their most recent season, crazy right?

Leafs fans who are pretending Kessel today and Kessel in 2015 are straight up delusional. Kessel is clearly more valuable now.

The Malkin/Crosby factor, age (31 when the season starts), and the fact that he probably can't run in all systems makes me think his value probably wouldn't be as high as some people here expect. He'll still get a nice return, but it's not going to be a kings ransom.

Yes, the guy put up 92 points, but 42 were on the PP with Crosby AND Malkin, and he played a large chunk of the season, EV on Malkin's wing. Kessel is a fantastic player, but if you think he's driving the play more than a Malkin or Crosby, you're dreaming. His stats are INFLATED. Think of it like this, and this is a much more exaggerated example, would you pay top dollar for 2005-06 Cheechoo? He put up 50 something goals, 90 something points. No way, cause everyone knows the reason for his success was his center.

Are you just ignoring like all of Kessel's career here? He's been producing with nothing for a ton of his career. No one is going to question if he's a product of Crosby or Malkin, because it would be really dumb to have that thought with the resume Kessel has. Kessel is a ~70 point player right now who can drive his own line and is a fantastic playoff producer. No one is going to question if he's a product of Crosby and Malkin, because he's clearly not.
 

OCPenguin

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
3,146
171
This is purely speculation, but why would the penguins retain a cent? Kessel at 6.8 million is fair value, if not a bargain for his services.

Why would Pittsburgh need to retain money on a bargain? This isn't Milan Lucic we are talking about. Bringing up the LAK in this instance for Kessel makes me laugh. I DON'T see a match whatsoever. What does LA offer for a guy that gives you 80-90 points, 35-40 goals per year? That is a lot of scoring going out the window
 

OCPenguin

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
3,146
171
What´s your offer?
Looking for a Top4 D and a Sprong like prospect + a pick

You are grossly overrating Daniel Sprong. A Sprong like prospect? A kid that scores goals, but can't get called up and has been bypassed by a few because his two-way game sucks?
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,530
21,073
You are grossly overrating Daniel Sprong. A Sprong like prospect? A kid that scores goals, but can't get called up and has been bypassed by a few because his two-way game sucks?

He was 20 years old trying to crack the line-up of a defending 2-time Cup champ that's now considering trading a 92 point winger because he doesn't play the way the coach wants. What does that tell you?

Sprong finished 2nd in the AHL in goals as a rookie playing far fewer games than the guy who finished 1st. That's someone you hang onto unless you have a fantastic reason to move him.

If anything, the amount of non-contributors Sullivan played down the stretch and into the playoffs over Sprong is an argument against Sullivan, not Sprong. Had he been more willing to trust a pure talent instead of familiar plugs, things may well have turned out differently. We wouldn't have regretted playing him over the likes of Kuhnhackl, Sheary, or ZAR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pens1566

molon labe

Registered User
Jul 13, 2016
4,567
2,936
Florida
You’d think Armstrong would be in on him if he’s actually available. He’d fit wonderfully with Schwartz/Schenn. Tarasenko would play with whatever center we pick up, and one of Fabbri/Steen. Would make for a wonderful top 6.

The Pens would want Parayko in a deal giving up such a dynamic goal scorer. Given the Blues fascination with the big fella, im not sure how a deal between the two teams gets done. By and by, weve had mutual interests as teams go many times in the past...

Barring one fan on HF who posts hourly trash deals for Phil, the vast majority of us have relatively low interest in moving him. IF we did, i wouldnt be as upset to have him end up on the Blues (i like you guys)- and the potential of a Tavares/Kessel/Tarasenko power play is pretty slick.

I think if Phil is moved for a defensemen then Sprong is a guaranteed player this year (which would hold to what JR stated on cleanout day).. i dont think hes moved for a replacement wing (as everything else is a downgrade) - and were set down the middle.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->