Could Grand Rapids support a big 4 sports team?
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
Never been there but Michigan is kind of like Georgia or Illinois or Massachusetts I guess, you've got your Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago, Bostons and everyone else. In other words, anything major league is going to go to those places and if not, well that's probably all she wrote.
Interesting to see their TV market larger than OKC, Jacksonville, and New Orleans among others.
Interesting to see their TV market larger than OKC, Jacksonville, and New Orleans among others.
Yukon Joe
Registered User
Look, in a world where Green Bay, Wisconsin has an NFL franchise anything is possible. If some multi-billionaire is willing to write a checque for $650 mil or more it could happen.
But in general, where leagues have moved or expanded to smaller markets it been because there was no competition in the minds of fans. Think of franchises like the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Utah Jazz, Vegas Golden Knights or Columbus Blue Jackets. Those markets not only had no other pro team in the area, but the local fans didn't heavily identify or follow any particular team - it was virgin territory.
I'll let a native Grand Rapidian correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that any team there would always be second fiddle to the Lions/Tigers/Pistons/Red Wings. I know that even 25 years later it's still an issue that plagues the Ottawa Senators.
But in general, where leagues have moved or expanded to smaller markets it been because there was no competition in the minds of fans. Think of franchises like the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Utah Jazz, Vegas Golden Knights or Columbus Blue Jackets. Those markets not only had no other pro team in the area, but the local fans didn't heavily identify or follow any particular team - it was virgin territory.
I'll let a native Grand Rapidian correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that any team there would always be second fiddle to the Lions/Tigers/Pistons/Red Wings. I know that even 25 years later it's still an issue that plagues the Ottawa Senators.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
The Green Bay comparison isn't really valid as their market is the entire state of Wisconsin. Grand Rapids wouldn't have anything at all like that, being in relatively short driving distance to Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Columbus, and Cleveland (though Chicago and Detroit are probably 95% of the respective fanbases around there).
Grand Rapids won't happen, probably not even if some crazy billionaire decided to throw money at a league for a team. And even in that hypothetical, good luck making that market a place free agents want to move to or stay in, and I say that as someone that absolutely loves Western Michigan.
Grand Rapids won't happen, probably not even if some crazy billionaire decided to throw money at a league for a team. And even in that hypothetical, good luck making that market a place free agents want to move to or stay in, and I say that as someone that absolutely loves Western Michigan.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
The AHL .. oh, wait, they've got that already. Next city, please.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
MUCH different world now than when the Packers phenomenon was born. The Old Boys Clubs of major league sports in North America are larger now with a more diverse mix of backgrounds & opinions among the individual owners, making it a lot tougher for your imaginary "some multi-billionaire" to sign his/her name on a piece of paper & slide it across the table in exchange for a membership. In the last 14 years: Donald Trump tried & failed to buy the Buffalo Bills; J-Lo & A-Rod struck out trying to purchase the NY Mets; the NBA owners nixed the sale of the Sacramento Kings to Seattle buyers; and multiple parties were unable to secure an NHL team for Houston (a saga that will continue). It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
Of course not., though there's reasons.
Western Michigan is... peculiar. They have all the amenities anyone could have (access to beaches, an amusement park, nature, and a major city with minor league sports, major players in business, and infrastructure), but folks would rather ferry or go the long way around Lake Michigan to other places than take advantage of what they got. Michigan's Adventure is arguably the least visited major theme park in all of the Midwest, for example. Grand Rapids is also one of the most conservative cities in the country, where several major Christian companies (Zondervan being the largest) have set up shop, and there isn't much in terms of forward thinking in the area to encourage free agents in addition to the typical small market potholes. If we're talking hockey or football... perhaps, this could work, but this is a deal breaker for basketball. The TV market is big, thanks to having access to areas like Kalamazoo & Battle Creek, but we are having to combine areas to increase their market share.
As for major employers that could help tie in a potential franchise, yes; they have Meijer (for the uninitiated, it's a retail chain that works like Walmart where there's a grocery store, pharmacy, and a department store all rolled into one with some stores providing additional resources like outdoor landscaping), but Meijer is a regional chain, as opposed to Walmart and Target. And that's about it from a national level unless you want to throw in Amway, and... I feel like Amway and other multi-tiered companies that force folks to buy junk aren't "legit". Regionally, you'd have Spectrum Health as a major player, but health companies don't get involved in athletics besides treatment.
They're fine for minor leagues, but I just can't see the area supporting any pro sports.
Western Michigan is... peculiar. They have all the amenities anyone could have (access to beaches, an amusement park, nature, and a major city with minor league sports, major players in business, and infrastructure), but folks would rather ferry or go the long way around Lake Michigan to other places than take advantage of what they got. Michigan's Adventure is arguably the least visited major theme park in all of the Midwest, for example. Grand Rapids is also one of the most conservative cities in the country, where several major Christian companies (Zondervan being the largest) have set up shop, and there isn't much in terms of forward thinking in the area to encourage free agents in addition to the typical small market potholes. If we're talking hockey or football... perhaps, this could work, but this is a deal breaker for basketball. The TV market is big, thanks to having access to areas like Kalamazoo & Battle Creek, but we are having to combine areas to increase their market share.
As for major employers that could help tie in a potential franchise, yes; they have Meijer (for the uninitiated, it's a retail chain that works like Walmart where there's a grocery store, pharmacy, and a department store all rolled into one with some stores providing additional resources like outdoor landscaping), but Meijer is a regional chain, as opposed to Walmart and Target. And that's about it from a national level unless you want to throw in Amway, and... I feel like Amway and other multi-tiered companies that force folks to buy junk aren't "legit". Regionally, you'd have Spectrum Health as a major player, but health companies don't get involved in athletics besides treatment.
They're fine for minor leagues, but I just can't see the area supporting any pro sports.
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
Detroit for sure. Only area of Michigan that would are Chicago fans is the SW corner.
grand rapids is 4 hours from metro Detroit, IU, and that comes directly from those there.
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
no, that was someone who is from there.... it's 4 hours between GR and Detroit, has nothing to do with Ohio
ripham23232
Registered User
As a Grand Rapids resident who drives to Detroit twice a week, it's 2 and a half. On a good day, I can get it to 2:15 or 2:20. For reference, put Van Andel Arena (home to the Griffins) and Little Caesars Arena into google maps. The directions will tell you 2 hours and 27 minutes.
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
Whalers Fan
Go Habs!
That fan must drive really slow.
Grand Rapids is a great place to visit -- my wife and I love spending a weekend there -- but it's not big enough to support a major sports team. A minor league team like the Griffins is perfect for the area.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
On a side note, going back to the IHL days, I thought the griffin in the Grand Rapids logo looked like it was wearing a hat due to the perspective of the wing over the head cause I was young and stupid. The new logo doesn't have this problem, but it shows you how perspective works.
Grand Rapids has the 70th-largest urban area in the US, with about 569,935 people.
The only US metro area that has a Big 5 sports team and fewer people is Green Bay, with about 206,520 people in its urban area (ranking 176th in the nation).
For reference, Oklahoma City is the second-smallest urban area in the US with a Big 5 sports team, and they are ranked 51st in the nation with about 861,505 people. That's a wide gap from Grand Rapids.
So it's highly unlikely. Considering, like other people have mentioned, Green Bay's lack of people is very misleading due to the Packers' widespread appeal across the Midwest, Grand Rapids would be at a comparative disadvantage there. The only shot they have is building a large, brand spankin new arena and having a company like Meijer heavily involved. Otherwise, good luck...
I just don't see the support being there. No offense to the people of Grand Rapids, but they couldn't even support the Grand Rapids Rampage of the old Arena Football League too well, and they won a title! No excuses to not even draw close to 10,000 per game imo, even if Van Andel Arena has a capacity just around 11,000.
The only US metro area that has a Big 5 sports team and fewer people is Green Bay, with about 206,520 people in its urban area (ranking 176th in the nation).
For reference, Oklahoma City is the second-smallest urban area in the US with a Big 5 sports team, and they are ranked 51st in the nation with about 861,505 people. That's a wide gap from Grand Rapids.
So it's highly unlikely. Considering, like other people have mentioned, Green Bay's lack of people is very misleading due to the Packers' widespread appeal across the Midwest, Grand Rapids would be at a comparative disadvantage there. The only shot they have is building a large, brand spankin new arena and having a company like Meijer heavily involved. Otherwise, good luck...
I just don't see the support being there. No offense to the people of Grand Rapids, but they couldn't even support the Grand Rapids Rampage of the old Arena Football League too well, and they won a title! No excuses to not even draw close to 10,000 per game imo, even if Van Andel Arena has a capacity just around 11,000.
Grand Rapids TV may be #41 but its very big in land size and the population is very spread out, some of the bigger towns like Kalamazoo and Battle Creek are over 50 miles away, Muskegon is 30 miles away. The Detroit teams have market the whole state heavily, Its not like OKC were before the Thunder there was no team for hundreds of miles. You would have to spends boatloads for stadiums etc. and take huge losses if you wanted a pro team there.
