Could a sports franchise that was based out of 2 cities work?

[Yoties2317]

Do you think a sports team that played home games in two nearby cities in a region could be successful? Realistically, I don't see how minor league sports can operate in 100 years or even less! The only way the teams can be successful in the longterm future is if they are all collectively subsidized and owned by the top league (in this case the NHL). I do not know how it works for other sports but we can agree this would never happen in hockey with the NHL having full ownership of all AHL and ECHL teams (include or don't include the ECHL).

I see minor league teams merging within 50 years and eventually merging will take place at the top levels like the NHL or MLB. For example the Penguins and Flyers simply represent PA and play half home games in each barn. Subsequently the AHL affiliates would merge too and do the same thing. Do you think this is a realistic scenario? I think you have to consider it. Would you be surprised if this happened by the year 2060?

Click to read more...

 

[kij]

Maybe something like AHL Hartford and Bridgeport could work. Both get around 4,000 fans per game, hour apart so you would get mostly different fans in each locale but still close enough for players to live and practice somewhere reasonably close to both arenas. At the NHL level most teams get the fans to sustain themselves and in the long run if they don't, relocation or folding are in the future. Doubtful a team with a large, loyal fanbase would be able to pull off playing at separate arenas that are so far apart like philly and pitts, from a fan and player perspective.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Maybe something like AHL Hartford and Bridgeport could work. Both get around 4,000 fans per game, hour apart so you would get mostly different fans in each locale but still close enough for players to live and practice somewhere reasonably close to both arenas. At the NHL level most teams get the fans to sustain themselves and in the long run if they don't, relocation or folding are in the future. Doubtful a team with a large, loyal fanbase would be able to pull off playing at separate arenas that are so far apart like philly and pitts, from a fan and player perspective.

nope...aren't both franchises owned and operated mentioned here by the NHL CLUB... Hartford now has Portland and the ST have Worcester.... the common link between the Rangers/Hartford and Portland is one arena operator runs both venues and essentially the business ends of the Rangers affiliation.

 

[sikolec]

KHL has Kunlun Red Star that plays out of Beijing and Shanghai. Some of that was due to arena conflicts in Beijing, but I believe they still split home games between the two cities. No clue where they practice.

 

[royals119]

Wheeling tried it for a season (or 2?) after the Chiefs folded. They played ~ 24 games in Wheeling and ~12 in Johnstown if I recall correctly. The idea was that weeknight and Sunday games don't draw as well, and each town had enough groups and corporate sponsors to *almost* support a team, but not quite enough for 36 games. By rescheduling what would have been weeknight home games in Wheeling to weekend "home" games in Johnstown, and reducing the total number of games played in each building, they would be able to increase their overall attendance.

On paper it sounded good, Johnstown would get a dozen games, so instead of sub 2000 crowds 36 times a year they would have a sellout 12 times a year, and Wheeling would have 24 games of 3/4 full arena instead of 36 half full games. The two cities are close enough that the Johnstown home games wouldn't be a lot of extra cost, or wear and tear on the players, and some fans from each city would probably go to some of the games in the other city too.

In reality it didn't work out. Johnstown fans didn't want to root for "Wheeling's team", and the Wheeling attendance didn't really increase much. Costs were higher because of the extra travel and it disrupted the practice schedule as well. They didn't have a marketing staff in Johnstown to get out and sell tickets there either.

Also, you need opponents to play against too, and making a league schedule where all of the Nailer's home games were on Friday and Saturday, even with the extra availability of two buildings, just wasn't practical, so they still had to play some weeknight games anyway.

I don't forsee what you are talking about ever happening. Flyers fans will never root for the Penguins, and vice versa. Also, what owner is going to buy a second team, and then cut their total revenue? The players would never agree to it either, as there would be a huge loss of jobs, and there would be contracts in place that need to be honored. Unless the league were in some kind of dire financial straits where it was combine teams or fold the league I can't see it - and even then they would probably contract the financially weaker teams and keep the big cities instead.

 

[PCSPounder]

After careful consideration... no.

After somewhat more careless consideration... HECK NO.

Especially the "trying to convert rivalries into single teams part."

 

[JMCx4]

KHL has Kunlun Red Star that plays out of Beijing and Shanghai. Some of that was due to arena conflicts in Beijing, but I believe they still split home games between the two cities. No clue where they practice.

A good outside-the-box example, @sikolec . The decision to site the KHL's KRS men's team in two Chinese cities was as much about "growing the game" in advance of the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics as it was about facility availability. The CWHL added a Red Star women's team and the Vanke Rays last year for the same reason.

 

[Atlantian]

I was always wondering if this could work logistically. Ever since the Thrashers left and the Hurricanes weren’t drawing a ton I wondered if it would be possible for the team to split time between the cities

 

[PCSPounder]

I was always wondering if this could work logistically. Ever since the Thrashers left and the Hurricanes weren’t drawing a ton I wondered if it would be possible for the team to split time between the cities

There's a reason the "Kansas City/Omaha Kings" are now the Sacramento Kings. Or more.

I just erased "just saying" for a followup sentence. A sports team needs A HOME. Two homes is always a complicated thing.

On that note, do you want public funding for your arena? They want you there for 100% of your home games or go elsewhere, TYVM.

 

[kij]

nope...aren't both franchises owned and operated mentioned here by the NHL CLUB... Hartford now has Portland and the ST have Worcester.... the common link between the Rangers/Hartford and Portland is one arena operator runs both venues and essentially the business ends of the Rangers affiliation.

Not like this was a hypothetical, spitballing situation or anything.

 

[Boxer Courage]

I hate to say it, and dislike the idea, but ads on jerseys may help minor league viability.

 

[JMCx4]

I hate to say it, and dislike the idea, but ads on jerseys may help minor league viability.

Many of the teams already leverage that income source by wearing sponsored jerseys during warmups. I'm not sure they could squeeze much more revenue out of advertisers by extending that to game jerseys, as brand exposure is largely limited to fans in the seats when the minor pro teams don't have large video broadcast networks.

 

[210]

I hate to say it, and dislike the idea, but ads on jerseys may help minor league viability.

They already have them, and have for a long time. Granted they don't look like NASCAR drivers, but there are sponsor patches on most (if not all) teams' jerseys in the AHL and ECHL.

 

[royals119]

I hate to say it, and dislike the idea, but ads on jerseys may help minor league viability.

Typically most teams have some type of sponsor on the front right shoulder, and some also have a second sponsor below the number on the back. Hopefully they don't go the same route as European hockey with multiple ads all over the jersey.

 

[Yoties2317]

Obviously it was very hypothetical. The point is minor league teams are desperately staying afloat. Today teams rename themselves after foods or other things just to sell a few more tickets.

 

[210]

Exactly how many teams have renamed themselves?

 

[Yoties2317]

12 baseball teams in the last year

 

[210]

12 baseball teams in the last year

How many in hockey?

 

[JMCx4]

Exactly how many teams have renamed themselves?

12 baseball teams in the last year

How many in hockey?

He threw you a wicked change-up there, didn't he, 210? Nice recovery, though.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

12 baseball teams in the last year

those are promotions, just as hockey teams give away things....what we're talking about is PERMANENT REBRANDING, not single game promotional rebranding.....

He threw you a wicked change-up there, didn't he, 210? Nice recovery, though.

He blew the point entirely, JM.... HOW MANY franchises in hockey change their name due to a promotion or giveaway on a PERMANENT basis, not a single promotion

 

[Atlantian]

In the last few years in the ECHL
Gwinnett Gladiators changed to Atlanta
Greenville Road Warriors changed to Swamp Rabbits
Missouri Mavericks changed to Kansas City

In the SPHL
Fayetteville FireAntz changed to Marksmen

I believe that’s about it for the last few seasons.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

In the last few years in the ECHL
Gwinnett Gladiators changed to Atlanta
Greenville Road Warriors changed to Swamp Rabbits
Missouri Mavericks changed to Kansas City

In the SPHL
Fayetteville FireAntz changed to Marksmen

I believe that’s about it for the last few seasons.

Atlantian, all 3 are marketing deals, [MOD].... The Mavericks never changed location, either.... marketing is not what Minor League Baseball does with these single game rebrands....

the other one that massively failed was Hartford becoming Connecticut mid-season, and that still has had some impact on the Pack to this day....no thanks to Howard Baldwin

 

[JMCx4]

He blew the point entirely, JM....

Think about it for a change, HUTCH. @Yoties2317 started this thread with a generic title ("Could a sports franchise ..."), so it was his to take "the point" in whatever direction he wished. At the risk of public ridicule, of course, but so what else is new around here?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Think about it for a change, HUTCH. @Yoties2317 started this thread with a generic title ("Could a sports franchise ..."), so it was his to take "the point" in whatever direction he wished. At the risk of public ridicule, of course, but so what else is new around here?

simply put, JM....the way the thread is designed, it's not a realistic discussion.... based off the history of the majority of veteran posters that have posted in the thread, including us... between the history the majority of us have seen from our days in the AHL.... HENCE the Reds reference, and the Hartford to Connecticut fail I JUST MENTIONED.

 

[210]

He threw you a wicked change-up there, didn't he, 210? Nice recovery, though.

It's a site called "Hockey's Future", in a forum called "ECHL, NWHL, and other Minor Pro Leagues". The change-up he threw essentially hit the backstop.