OT: Coronavirus XXXII: Pfizer Vaccinations Being Administered in the UK and Soon Canada & the US

[nabob]

Video of arrest at Calgary rink results in accusations of police ‘going overboard’

Looks like I wasn't far off in this dummy's theatrics.

Go ahead and laugh but the officers handled this correctly.

If you think the officers handled that correctly I hate to see how much misconduct would have to occur for you to think the cops were in the wrong. The reason why we have so much police misconduct is people like you who cheer on police incompetence.

 

[AM]

The person arrested being an idiot and the police handling the situation poorly are not mutually exclusive. Both are very likely true in this scenario.

These sorts of altercations are the result of politicians making political hay on a pandemic.

 

[AM]

If you think the officers handled that correctly I hate to see how much misconduct would have to occur for you to think the cops were in the wrong. The reason why we have so much police misconduct is people like you who cheer on police incompetence.

They didn’t use their brains. Should never have gotten into a discussion on what law was being broken when they had no clue.

 

[Spawn]

These sorts of altercations are the result of politicians making political hay on a pandemic.

No.

If you want to blame politicians for these altercations, at best, it’s due to unclear guidelines on restrictions for outdoor activities.

Nothing to do with political hay.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Haha. I'm wondering if that punks buddies are going to have a word or 2 with him.

Probably shut down the rink now.

jk aside the police, I mentioned ought to have worked the compliant 39 people, rather than the uncomplaint 1. and effect compliance that way. Its textbook deescaltion of a group situation. Utilize the people complying to exact peer pressure on the "offender". It actually works. Thats why effective people use that approach, and why its taught.

It was even evident that he bystanders, some of them were trying to help. Utilize those to reasonably deescalate the situation and effect compliance. Standard group management technique.

 

[Spawn]

The trouble is in how to enforce regulations, restrictions that are not defined. That are instead nebulously worded.

Simple solution, as I stated weeks ago is to define the rules a bit closer. What capacity for a standard dimensions outdoor rink in which transmission is generally minimal, outdoors. I agree that 40 is pushing it. I figure 20 could be reasonably distanced on ice and to play non contact hockey or skating.

But there is no defnition of the rules, and there is no standard of enforcement given, other than 1k fines. The police do not have informed authority because the informed restrictions have not been given. They are told simply to respond to outdoor gatherings and to do something...

Which results in a circumstance like this. As I stated earlier if theres an actual rule stated, as there is for other places, like 20 people allowed, then they could just tell half the skaters to go home. hell just take a hose out and start flooding the rink. Entire problem solved.

Good points. The outdoor restrictions needed to be more clearly outlined for sure. They left grey area where none needed to be.

 

[MaxR11]

So these were the guidelines in late Nov from Edmonton Community rinks...... I'd imagine it'd only be stricter now if anything?...

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Mr Duckett is too busy eating donuts to respond. Some people will get that.

He moved on from cookies?

 

[LTIR]

I never said politicians are evil. People are corrupt incompetent and out for themselves though. If a restriction is necessary you can sell it. Nobody is buying this nag.

Everyone I know has bought this nag. It was not a political decision. All political parties are good with these restrictions with the opposition wanting even more. The restriction is sold already. The ones who have not bought it should be locked in ICU until they either catch it or realize that the threat is real.

You will never make everyone happy. I don't buy speeding tickets laws nor the distracted driving law but now that regulation is in place I follow it for greater good.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Good points. The outdoor restrictions needed to be more clearly outlined for sure. They left grey area where none needed to be.

in effect the 21 yr old now has criminal charges due to a completely ineffectual police response, that as you mentioned couldn't be explained, because the entire rules on outdoor gathering are unclear, at a skating rink, which could be defined as a gathering and yet is open.

I mean imagine this situation and the police reading out the unclear rules.

all clear as mud. lol

One reason for the frustration of all is not really knowing what to do. Better briefings at the police stations could avoid this kind of thing, and the police themselves could go over some sensible recommendations and response, in lieu of defined regulations, which I suspect they will do more of now.

 

[Dorian2]

Probably shut down the rink now.

jk aside the police, I mentioned ought to have worked the compliant 39 people, rather than the uncomplaint 1. and effect compliance that way. Its textbook deescaltion of a group situation. Utilize the people complying to exact peer pressure on the "offender". It actually works. Thats why effective people use that approach, and why its taught.

It was even evident that he bystanders, some of them were trying to help. Utilize those to reasonably deescalate the situation and effect compliance. Standard group management technique.

I figured since those bystanders knew his name that they were, indeed, his buddies. Now as far as legalities, I'm under the impression that the police did as much as they could do to amicably end the situation. The global article mentioned that the punk was ordered off the ice and he basically skated away. IMO, that would be akin to me being at an out of control hous party in regular times, which I have been in the 80's by the Stadium, being ordered to GTF out by the cops, and climbing on the roof, waiving my private parts at their Aunty, and telling them to F off and go eat some wolf nipple chips.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He moved on from cookies?

He doesn't discriminate.

 

[LTIR]

So these were the guidelines in late Nov from Edmonton Community rinks...... I'd imagine it'd only be stricter now if anything?...

This may be for indoor rinks.
We got a notification for our community outdoor rink with something similar not allowing sticks and pucks.

 

[Stoneman89]

So these were the guidelines in late Nov from Edmonton Community rinks...... I'd imagine it'd only be stricter now?...

Can't get any clearer than that. The officers should be carrying that notice with them, if it's not been posted everywhere at rinks. Really feel for everyone that likes to play outside shinny, but the very sport itself initiates close in battles at some point, even if there is no so-called contact. And the after play probably deteriorates into the closer contact beer ritual. Really sorry it's come to this, especially with the weather so great, but if we're going to stay away from mom and dad, and siblings, cousins and close friends for another 3 weeks, need to go whole hog and get through this.

 

[MaxR11]

This may be for indoor rinks.
We got a notification for our community outdoor rink with something similar not allowing sticks and pucks.

Someone I know phoned them and they said it applies to odrs. I went by an odr recently and saw a sign similar to this.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Meanwhile I am sure West Ed or any mall in Calgary looks like this today.

 

[Little Fury]

There is no such thing as ‘safe consumption’ of these drugs and it’s ridiculous that you think otherwise. Not surprising though.

Right, the correct term is "supervised consumption." Anything else?

Drug consumption sites are "harm reduction" in name only. I think a career in the field, 35years, allows me to comment on some of this. Jurisdictions that have primarily the Consumption sites without enough other services only extend the misery.

But closing such facilities without other services in place means people die.

And that's the problem with the rest of your post: there's basically no continuum of treatment in this province to keep people alive, connect them with services, get treatment and see them through recovery. One can debate what kind of model works best (eg voluntary vs coerced treatment) but I think it's obvious the current system is inadequate. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I figured since those bystanders knew his name that they were, indeed, his buddies. Now as far as legalities, I'm under the impression that the police did as much as they could do to amicably end the situation. The global article mentioned that the punk was ordered off the ice and he basically skated away. IMO, that would be akin to me being at an out of control hous party in regular times, which I have been in the 80's by the Stadium, being ordered to GTF out by the cops, and climbing on the roof, waiving my private parts at their Aunty, and telling them to F off and go eat some wolf nipple chips.

But maybe that's just me.

Sounds like a standard week night in the hood.

heh, one 6yr old kid I worked with, kid was running around school, they didn't know what to do with him kid then escaped, they called me on call to deal with it, they called the police lol, kid had climbed the highest tree he could find in schoolyard, easily 30 feet up, as I arrived he whipped it out and started pissing on the principal, teachers, and assembled police. As I was approaching saying "get away from the tree". Just as the kid pissed all over all of them. Must have been holding it in all day. I'd seen the kid climb the roof of his house and do this before.

They had to phone fire department, two trucks, and they used the high ladders to get the kid down. The whole neighborhood probably wondering why 2 police cars fire trucks were at the school.

Just telling this so people could get a laugh. The principal and I had a good relationship and a good laugh. Him saying he should've listened to me. He just laughed it off. great guy.

 

[LTIR]

Meanwhile I am sure West Ed or any mall in Calgary looks like this today.

Probably not because this picture is from before the 15% restrictions were brought down upon us.

 

[Little Fury]

and all the police officer had to do was not escalate the situation

Evergreen post.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Probably not because this picture is from before the 15% restrictions were brought down upon us.

That was from when it was 25%.

 

[Little Fury]

The male of the species has been disenfranchised. From earliest ages boys told not to be boys. Roughousing of any kind discouraged in school. Sit around like little plants, deviation from that sometimes met with being put in a behavioral class.

Many male traits are characterized as toxic, to be eradicated in the formation of new males. Thus males exist in continual confusion about what their roles are to be, when they will be randomly sanctioned for a male behavior leaking out, and living in a society that makes the males the buttcrack of every joke, attempting to reduce us all to Homer Simpsons. With almost every male or father figure on TV, in advertising made into the joke.
.

Gee I wonder why.

From Bring Back Buck's link upthread:

“Instead of talking about stress or trying to seek help for their depression, men will often mask their stress and deal with their depression through harmful behaviours and actions.”
There are four main risk factors that contribute to men’s mental health: alcohol and drug abuse, social isolation, a tendency to choose more lethal methods of suicide and reluctancy to seek help.

If people are trying to wipe out toxic masculinity that leads to higher rates of suicide, violence, substance abuse and mental illness, why is that a bad thing?

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Why does EVERYBODY get sent home? There is no regulation stating that implicitly. just saying. The restriction on outdoor activity is restricting public outdoor "gathering" It is not defined in any numbers, it is not defined beyond a concept of not gathering in a public place. So that the constables could say, who gathered here, and ask those to leave. At the point of screaming, tazer, arrest, nobody was still "gathered" on the rink. There was one person on the rink.

Where we are disagreeing on this is its presumed that individuals respond reasonable to sudden use of escalation and undue force. When you take a conflict resolution de-escalation course its the first thing that gets dispelled. You learn more about how alarm reactions are cited in the individual and how even normal individuals can become confused, disoriented, resistant, when what is happening is not making any sense to them and that they detect they are in danger.

Escalation results in confusion, resistance, build up, situations getting worse, and alarm reactions being button pushed. its why you don't do it.

Its why de-escalation workshops occur, and are mandated training in the first place.

Because you can't keep some of the group engaged in the shinny game and send others home. This guy was part of the group, he was ordered off the ice as he was violating public health orders. What message does that send to just give up and say "whatever" and let him or some keep skating, especially if there were no family members living under the same household? For someone who has been so adamant for everyone to stay home and not socialize, I'm quite surprised at your stance on this one.

As someone else posted, police are there to uphold laws, not make them. They were called to backup a by law official who called in support to gain compliance of multiple people suspected of violating public health orders. How he became aware of it, who knows. If the police didn't show, that's neglect of duty. The rest of this guy's buddies complied, why didn't he? He was clearly obstructing them, which is a criminal code offense and what he was arrested for.

Its laughable they went "too far".

Did they pepper spray him?
Did they strike him with their batons?
Did they taser him?

I ask all of you to put yourself in their position. Here is a group of guys in skates with hockey sticks and pucks. Any of these three items could have become weapons of attack. Since everyone thinks they went too far, how would you have handled this individual if you were an officer in this position?

The thing is, as I've said before this is a 2:20 second confrontation of the back half of the event. All CPS members wear body cameras so guess who has the whole event captured from their arrival. It's easy for Joe Public to post twitter and YT vids of interactions with police but police officers can't do the same. Imagine if an officer posted body cam video to his/her personal social media account of their interactions with the public.

No one is going to change my opinion on this, I'm likely not going to change anyone else's. I've put in my 2 cents. The guy got what he deserved, we'll see if the courts agree.

 

[nabob]

Ya it's muddy. Some say shinny is not allowed (which I thought was the case as well... only skating allowed and maybe shooting or handling the puck on your own). No one knows the exact rules. But I bet they were violating some other restriction like 10 people at the rink.
Also, word out there is a bunch of people got $1000 fines here in Edmonton for something like this at an ODR.

You used a lot of words to say “I know nothing”

 

[bellagiobob]