OT: Coronavirus XXX: Kick His Ass, Sea Bass! (Moderna & Pfizer!)

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snipes

How cold? I’m ice cold.
Dec 28, 2015
54,873
61,392
Don't expect many to agree with you, unfortunately. Lots of folks seem to think all forms of capitalism are bad.

Not to be insensitive, but I don’t care. I’m a capitalist through and through, however, as a Canadian I understand the pragmatism of our system which isn’t a pure capitalist system anyways.

State control of the means of production and abolition of private property and equity = no thanks for me.

In situations like this though, some degree of a safety net or UBI is required. I don’t want to see vulnerable low income Canadians or small businesses suffer through no fault of their own to the point of financial collapse. I care about my fellow citizens and especially fellow Albertans. No place I’d rather live in the world.
 
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Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
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Not to be insensitive, but I don’t care. I’m a capitalist through and through, however, as a Canadian I understand the pragmatism of our system which isn’t a pure capitalist system anyways.

State control of the means of production and abolition of private property and equity = no thanks for me.

In situations like this though, some degree of a safety net or UBI is required. I don’t want to see vulnerable low income Canadians or small businesses suffer through no fault of their own to the point of financial collapse. I care about my fellow citizens and especially fellow Albertans. No place I’d rather live in the world.

Agreed. Unfortunately policies seem to have better (indirectly or directly) supported corporate entities than small businesses.
 
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snipes

How cold? I’m ice cold.
Dec 28, 2015
54,873
61,392
Agreed. Unfortunately policies seem to have better (indirectly or directly) supported corporate entities than small businesses.

My view is all businesses should incorporate, far less liability exposure to the individual Directors behind the corporate veil.

But that’s not always practical for everyone.
 

Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
25,974
44,414
And that's the great thing about living here, we can be friends and have differing opinions.

Having traveled extensively, I am very thankful for being Canadian.

Yes, agreed.

And for the second, having done the same I feel that we are very privileged here but also that we are too forgiving of political corruption (in North America in general). Don't want to derail so I'll leave my commentary at I wish North Americans would demand electoral reform and desire more multi-party democracy like we see in other parts of the West. While imperfect, I feel the citizenry is more likely to be better served when there is greater accountability of a party or leader to upholding its integrity when there are more options and more party collaboration required.
 
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Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
25,974
44,414
My view is all businesses should incorporate, far less liability exposure to the individual Directors behind the corporate veil.

But that’s not always practical for everyone.

Sorry, I meant corporate in the layman sense of the word, as in multi-national megacorps.
 
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WaitingForUser

Registered User
Mar 19, 2010
4,583
4,205
Edmonton
Why is it just assumed we are "bending over"? I might as well stop paying taxes and not renew my drivers license. F*** the government. They can't tell me what to do!!!!!!

A virus that can be fought off by younger people (who knows the long term side effects), but can kill your mom or dad or grandparents quickly. Why the fuss right?

I can put up with it for a while. I have been bent over financially from this friggin virus. I can't do anything about it right now.

Consumer confidence doesn't get talked about that much. Open businesses 100%. How many people are confident to go overall. Lets lock down a little and get this done with so businesses, etc can thrive like they were before. Not limp through this.

maybe if I was single or wasn't around somebody who the virus could kill, I would be more of a rebel. I have to play it safe. Who knows. I might be selfish like a lot of really young people right now.

I follow the rules, so even if their were no restrictions, I could still get it, but my chances would be lower with how I act. I would rather get this thing down and have things go kind of back to normal, then just keep everything open and keep having high cases. Then the vaccine is coming. Light at the end of the tunnel.
I was saying that in reference to the fact that people are so willing and ready to throw other people to the wolves. To spy on their neighbors and rat out their friends and family. This is very dangerous territory for us to be treading. It starts with the virus but when does it stop? We need to stick together especially right now when the virus and politics behind it are tearing us apart.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,289
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Duck hunting
New and improved lockdown adds.

Well, what the hell, I saw a movie like this..

downsize_200k_v1


I can probably even turn the volume down on this model and she doesn't ask why we dont go for dinner or go shooping all the time during a pandemic..
 

WaitingForUser

Registered User
Mar 19, 2010
4,583
4,205
Edmonton
  • Bend the curve

    Due to Alberta’s high case numbers, aggressive action is required now to protect our health system from being overwhelmed.
    The current situation is critical. These mandatory restrictions apply provincewide and will be in place at least until January 12, 2021.
    Health officials are monitoring the situation and will adjust measures if required.
    Gathering restrictions

    Alberta declared a State of Public Health Emergency to protect the health care system from COVID-19. Social gatherings are the top source of transmission.
    Effective Dec. 8, all indoor and outdoor social gatherings have been prohibited. This will be enforced with $1,000 fines.
  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 8
    All indoor and outdoor social gatherings – public and private – are prohibited
    • Close contacts are limited to household members only
    • People who live alone can have up to 2 close contacts:
      • must be the same two contacts throughout the duration of the restriction
      • if the close contacts do not live alone, visits cannot be held at their home
      • single parents who only live with their children are permitted to have up to 2 close contacts
    This does not apply to:
    • co-parenting arrangements
    • service visits from caregivers, health or childcare providers
    • home maintenance and repairs
    • mutual support group meetings

  • Non-essential travel
    • All out-of-town travel is discouraged at this time.
    Returning home
    • If the individual belongs to the household (e.g., a such as a child returning home from post-secondary), then they would be permitted to return to the home.
    • If you do not have a household in Alberta, you must not stay in other people’s homes while these restrictions are in place.
    Visitors
    • Out-of-town visitors cannot stay in other people's homes while these restrictions are in place, regardless of where they are coming from.
    While we appreciate this may affect your travel plans as you may wish to visit or stay with family, the increase in COVID cases is being taken very seriously and these enhanced public health measures are required to stop the spread of COVID-19.

  • No change – Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Nov. 24
    • Maximum of 10 people for wedding ceremonies or funeral services and must be held in a public place
      • This includes the officiant, bride/groom and witnesses
      • This does not include staff or organizers who are not considered an invited guest
      • This applies to any facility, including places of worship and funeral homes.
      • This includes services held indoors or outdoors, seated or non-seated.
    • Receptions are not permitted
    This measure will help limit exposure, reduce outbreaks and protect vulnerable attendees.
    • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 13
      Faith services are limited to 15% of fire code occupancy for in-person attendance:
      • Services must be held at their normal location
      • Physical distancing between households must be maintained
      • Mask use is mandatory
      Alternatively:
      • Virtual or online services are recommended
      • Drive-in services where people do not leave their vehicles and adhere to guidance are allowed
      Additional safety measures:
      • In-person faith group meetings and other religious gatherings are:
        • not permitted in private homes while these measures are in effect
        • permitted when conducted at a place of worship as long as physical distancing and public health measures are followed
      • Faith leaders and other speakers can remove their masks while speaking if there is a distance of 2 metres. The mask must be put on again once finished speaking.
      • Group performance activities, such as choir singing and playing music, are permitted if they are normal worship practices and not for the purpose of entertainment. Performers must wear masks at all times.
    Workplace and learning centres
    • Effective Dec. 8, masks are mandatory in all indoor public spaces and workplaces.
    • Effective Dec. 13, working from home is mandatory when physical presence is not required.
    • Current restrictions on child care and K-12 learning remain in effect.
  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 8
    Masks are mandatory in all:
    • indoor public places
    • places of worship
    • indoor workplaces and facilities outside the home, except:
      • when working alone in an office or a safely distanced cubicle or a barrier is in place
      • rental accommodations used soley for the purposes of a private residence
      • farm operations (exempt)
    This workplace requirement:
    • applies to all employees, customers, visitors, delivery personnel and contractors
    • includes any location where employees are present in-person
    • includes all workplace locations where masks won’t pose a safety risk
    • does not change current student mask requirements in schools

  • Mandatory - Provincewide - Effective Dec. 13
    Working from home is mandatory unless the employer requires a physical presence for operational effectiveness.

  • No change – Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Starting Nov. 30
    Grades 7-12 students
    • Move to at-home learning Nov. 30 to Jan. 8, except during winter break*
    • Resume in-person classes Jan. 11
    • Diploma exams are optional for rest of the school year. Students and families can choose to write an exam or receive an exemption for the January, April, June and August 2021 exams.
    Grades K-6 students, including Early Childhood Services
    • Continue in-person learning until their scheduled winter break (generally Dec. 18*)
    • Move to at-home learning after the winter break until Jan. 8
    • Resume in-person classes Jan. 11
    *Schools have different winter break schedules, check with your school for details.
    Exemption is available for students with disabilities or in outreach programs, learn more at K-12 learning during COVID-19.
    • No change to current measures
      Licensed daycare, out-of-school and preschool program can continue operating as long as providers follow all public health orders and guidance for child care programs.
    Business and service restrictions

    Effective Dec. 13, some businesses will be required to close, reduce capacity or limit their in-person access.
    All previous restrictions from Nov. 27 remain in effect until new restrictions come into effect on Dec. 13.
  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 13
    Retail services must reduce customer capacity to 15% of fire code occupancy or a minimum of 5 customers:
    • Curbside pick up, delivery and online services are encouraged
    • Shop alone if possible or only with the people you live with
    • Shopping mall:
      • capacity limits of 15% include common areas and individual stores
      • food courts open for grab and go only
    Retail services include:
    • Retail businesses operating within a shopping centre or mall
    • Shopping centres and malls
    • Pet supply stores
    • Grocery stores
    • Pharmacies
    • Clothing stores
    • Computer and technology stores
    • Hardware
    • Automotive
    • Sporting goods
    • Liquor and cannabis
    • Gift shops
    • Markets

  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 13
    • All restaurants, pubs, bars, lounges and cafes are closed to in-person service.
    • Take out, curbside pickup and delivery services are allowed.

  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 13
    All entertainment businesses and entities must close, including:
    • Casinos, bingo halls, gaming centres
    • Racing centres, horse tracks, raceways
    • Bowling alleys, pool halls
    • Legions and private clubs (nightclubs must remain closed)
    • Art galleries, libraries and museums
    • Science and interpretive centres
    • Amusement and water parks
    • Children’s play centres and indoor playgrounds
    • Theatres, auditoria and concert halls
    • Banquet halls, conference centres and trade shows
    All indoor recreation facilities must close, including:
    • Gyms and studios
    • Fitness and recreation centres
    • Spas, pools, indoor rinks and arenas
    • Day and overnight camps
    • Community halls and centres
    Outdoor recreation is permitted, but facilities with indoor spaces except for washrooms will be closed.

  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 13
    All personal and wellness services must close.
    Personal services include:
    • esthetics, manicure, pedicure, body waxing, make-up
    • body, nose and ear piercing, and tattoos
    • artificial tanning and spray tanning
    • facial, eyebrow and eyelash treatments
    • cosmetic skin and body treatments
    • laser hair and tattoo removal
    • hairstyling and barbering
    Wellness services include:
    • massage therapy
    • floatation tanks
    • reflexology
    • colonic irrigation

  • Mandatory - Provincewide - Effective Dec. 13
    Regulated health services can remain open by appointment only as long as public health orders and sector guidance is followed. Appointments should be limited to one-on-one services.
    • physicians, dentists
    • physical therapists
    • optometrists
    • hearing aid practitioners
    • acupuncturists
    • naturopaths
    Professional services can remain open by appointment only:
    • lawyers
    • mediators
    • accountants
    • photographers
    Social services can remain open for in-person services including:
    • social, protective or emergency services
    • shelters for vulnerable persons
    • not-for-profit community kitchens, religious kitchens and soup kitchens
    Home-based businesses should follow the restrictions for the type of service they provide.

  • Mandatory - Provincewide - Effective Dec. 13
    Hotels, motels, hunting and fishing lodges may remain open but must follow restrictions:
    • No spa, pool or gym access
    • No in-person dining (room service only)

  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 13 (Nov. 27 restrictions remain in effect until Dec. 13)
    Performance activities include dancing, singing, theatre and playing wind instruments.
    Outdoor settings
    • Rehearsals and practices are permitted up to a maximum of 10 participants. Physical distancing and other relevant guidelines must be followed.
    • Performances with audiences are not permitted.
    Indoor settings
    • No group performances in indoor settings are permitted.
    • Rehearsals, practices and lessons involving 2 or more are not permitted.
    Lessons
    • 1-to-1 in-person lessons are permitted.
    • Virtual lessons are strongly encouraged where possible.
    School settings
    • Phys Ed., band and drama classes are permitted to continue
    • Assemblies, performances, concerts, and inter-school games, activities and competitions are not permitted.
    Places of worship
    • Indoor group performance activities conducted in a place of worship, such as choir singing and playing music, are permitted provided these are normal activities conducted as part of worship practices and not for the purpose of entertainment.


  • Mandatory restriction – Provincewide – Effective Dec. 13 (Nov. 27 restrictions remain in effect until Dec. 13)
    Group physical activities, including team sports, fitness classes and training sessions, are prohibited or restricted across Alberta.
    • Outdoor group physical activity, including team sports, must be limited to 10 people or fewer.
      • members of different households must maintain 2 metre distancing at all times
    • Indoor group physical activities are prohibited unless
      • the group only involves members of the same household.
      • the activity involves students at a school or post-secondary institution as part of an education program
      • the activity involves students at a post-secondary institution
    • One-to-one indoor training, such as training with a fitness trainer or coach, is not permitted.
If you do not have a residence in Alberta you cannot stay in other peoples houses???
Are they saying if I have a homeless friend he cannot stay in my house? Even if it’s 40 below outside?
I’m sorry but most of these so called restrictions are absolutely bordering on fascism if not totalitarianism. This is a very scary times my friends tread lightly down this path!
 
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yukoner88

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
19,626
23,585
Dawson City, YT
Not really that clear. I'll use an example. On our block, down by school and park there is a toboggan hill. All the local kids have been going there for weeks. all of them are neighbors, they know each other. Tell me its allowed or not under what measures were announced today. you can't.

Its presumptive application of guidelines. You can define the same activity as "hey these people know each other and went here and gathered" or that they didn't, depending on how any particular enforcement authority happened to feel in the moment. It'll be lol seeing the lil toboggan hill shutdown for some, others that say that they dont know each other, we swear on oath, be allowed..

Not trying to be obtuse either. These announced rules and desriptions and clarification in the presser are inane. There will certainly be further questions asked of this. Hopefully better clarifications.

ps outdoor arenas have not been open anywhere in my neighborhood. until now it had been left to communites what they want to do and most going no, because of confusion, concerns. That confusion just got amplified today.

When the kids are on the outdoor rink or sledding down the hills n the patents are scattered around watching/keeping an eye on things, call it a protest for some sjw agenda and call it day
 
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bellagiobob

Registered User
Jul 27, 2006
21,839
50,386
Not really that clear. I'll use an example. On our block, down by school and park there is a toboggan hill. All the local kids have been going there for weeks. all of them are neighbors, they know each other. Tell me its allowed or not under what measures were announced today. you can't.

Its presumptive application of guidelines. You can define the same activity as "hey these people know each other and went here and gathered" or that they didn't, depending on how any particular enforcement authority happened to feel in the moment. It'll be lol seeing the lil toboggan hill shutdown for some, others that say that they dont know each other, we swear on oath, be allowed..

Not trying to be obtuse either. These announced rules and desriptions and clarification in the presser are inane. There will certainly be further questions asked of this. Hopefully better clarifications.

ps outdoor arenas have not been open anywhere in my neighborhood. until now it had been left to communites what they want to do and most going no, because of confusion, concerns. That confusion just got amplified today.

Going to the local toboggan hill with your family is fine. Hopefully we don't have to be told by the govt to avoid gathering with our neighbors at the hill though. A nod and a wave should suffice. I read the guidelines and while a few are open for interpretation, most seemed fairly clear. Again, when in doubt, just use common sense. Which a lack of by some people has got us into this predicament in the first place.
 
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Raab

Registered User
Oct 6, 2007
18,085
2,777
I won't say what I want to say, because I'll be thread banned. All I'll say is Kenney and Hinshaw will both be gone next election. Sell outs
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,289
54,813
Duck hunting
Not much they can do with the holiday season, people are gonna do what they’re gonna do.

Best you can hope for is to bend the curve a bit to stop the runaway spread during the holidays and then wait it out for the vaccines to start rolling.

I think the uber, way over and above restrictions of today just cause people to say f*** it, I'm not playing at all. Theres a point to which you can push people. That point was Nov 24, and that went beyond what should be occurring here. This is way beyond that today with these new measure which pretty much entirely erase what this govt has been telling us they are willing, not willing to do all along. They just mortgaged their entire credibility. Clearly Hinshaw entirely won out today, but isn't an elected official.

@RaabHart already called it. I can't say further than that and spell it out here.


Calgary businesses respond to new restrictions | CTV News
 
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Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,289
54,813
Duck hunting
Going to the local toboggan hill with your family is fine. Hopefully we don't have to be told by the govt to avoid gathering with our neighbors at the hill though. A nod and a wave should suffice. I read the guidelines and while a few are open for interpretation, most seemed fairly clear. Again, when in doubt, just use common sense. Which a lack of by some people has got us into this predicament in the first place.

When we start hearing about people randomly getting accosted and fined or receiving warnings at parks, toboggan hills, dog parks I'll let you know. They were doing some of that even in the Spring and giving out warnings even without stating why they were doing that. Twice during the spring they were writing out license plates of all the people parked in a park. They wouldn't tell me why. Couldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it here.

Now that authorities have been granted MUCH more license to do this I have zero faith that the power won't be abused and likely by some agent of authority just as pissed at this complete lockdown as many people are.

They went from an acceptable level of restrictions clear into the red.

Plus they sold us out.
 
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WaitingForUser

Registered User
Mar 19, 2010
4,583
4,205
Edmonton
The biggest crisis this province has faced in any of our lifetimes and you whackos are complaining about fascism and totalitarianism. Give me a break.
So I’m a whacko because I recognize that the slope between what is transpiring and what can easily become a permanent thing is slippery? Look I adhere to the masks even though I know they are mostly a safety net. Cases have gone up massively since the mandatory masks became a thing. This is mainly do to people most likely contracting the virus from the mask itself. How many people can honestly say that they follow all the guidelines regarding proper mask use? We were in reality far better off before the masks as people were far more scared and cautious because of it. Now as far as the restrictions go these are places the government should not be able to control. No good has ever come from control of this proportion. This is not to say that they will continue with them after the crisis has been averted. But there is nothing to say that they won’t either. One thing about people and control once they have it especially when it so easily given they don’t tend to want to relinquish it. Again I’m not saying it will happen but we need to watch the situation carefully is what I am saying.
 

Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,587
14,946
Edmonton
I think the uber, way over and above restrictions of today just cause people to say f*** it, I'm not playing at all. Theres a point to which you can push people. That point was Nov 24, and that went beyond what should be occurring here. This is way beyond that today with these new measure which pretty much entirely erase what this govt has been telling us they are willing, not willing to do all along. They just mortgaged their entire credibility. Clearly Hinshaw entirely won out today, but isn't an elected official.

@RaabHart already called it. I can't say further than that and spell it out here.


Calgary businesses respond to new restrictions | CTV News
These are restrictions close to what every sensible nation in the world has done when facing the crisis we are in. There is nothing over and above here. Christ it's still not even enough. They are still too afraid to close retail to the public and go curbside only.

The biggest mistake this government has made wasn't the restrictions announced today. It's that they didn't do this shit 5-6 weeks ago like every doctor and specialist in the province was pleading for them to do.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,289
54,813
Duck hunting
So I’m a whacko because I recognize that the slope between what is transpiring and what can easily become a permanent thing is slippery? Look I adhere to the masks even though I know they are mostly a safety net. Cases have gone up massively since the mandatory masks became a thing. This is mainly do to people most likely contracting the virus from the mask itself. How many people can honestly say that they follow all the guidelines regarding proper mask use? We were in reality far better off before the masks as people were far more scared and cautious because of it. Now as far as the restrictions go these are places the government should not be able to control. No good has ever come from control of this proportion. This is not to say that they will continue with them after the crisis has been averted. But there is nothing to say that they won’t either. One thing about people and control once they have it especially when it so easily given they don’t tend to want to relinquish it. Again I’m not saying it will happen but we need to watch the situation carefully is what I am saying.

All that matters is that it occurred at all, and that it occurred at this time, and it erased everybodies Christmas, holidays, all of it. The govt that said they would never resort to these measures resorted to them, in spades, and at the worst possible time of the year, which will end up being no contest for them.

Today was no mas, waving flags, and that will have consequences. You don't give up all conviction, all principals, and have people not notice it.

People can google, but unfortunately tells the whole story and I won't link it. "Failed on both sides" They've been proved right now too, and probably fist pumping what occurred today with this abject surrender.
 
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Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,587
14,946
Edmonton
So I’m a whacko because I recognize that the slope between what is transpiring and what can easily become a permanent thing is slippery? Look I adhere to the masks even though I know they are mostly a safety net. Cases have gone up massively since the mandatory masks became a thing. This is mainly do to people most likely contracting the virus from the mask itself. How many people can honestly say that they follow all the guidelines regarding proper mask use? We were in reality far better off before the masks as people were far more scared and cautious because of it. Now as far as the restrictions go these are places the government should not be able to control. No good has ever come from control of this proportion. This is not to say that they will continue with them after the crisis has been averted. But there is nothing to say that they won’t either. One thing about people and control once they have it especially when it so easily given they don’t tend to want to relinquish it. Again I’m not saying it will happen but we need to watch the situation carefully is what I am saying.

Anti-science too.

2 for the price of 1.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,289
54,813
Duck hunting
These are restrictions close to what every sensible nation in the world has done when facing the crisis we are in. There is nothing over and above here. Christ it's still not even enough. They are still too afraid to close retail to the public and go curbside only.

Not enough? ffs

Whats enough to you? People stop breathing? Stop being able to ever even leave their residences?

Our case amounts are NOTHING like severe measures that were put in place in Say Italy, Spain. We're not even remotely in a situation that would require any of that.

We're not in that kind of crisis, at all.

The case numbers were down for several consecutive days and we hadn't even given the nov24 guidelines any chance to work. Now this.

Its not even clear, at all, that the last measures were not enough. It takes at least 2 weeks of any current restrictions to even start seeing the impact of them. We have people protesting on major cities in the province at the last round of restrictions. Shit is just going to start hitting the fan now as many more people sign off.
 

Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,587
14,946
Edmonton
Not enough? ffs

Whats enough to you? People stop breathing? Stop being able to ever even leave their residences?

The case numbers were down for several consecutive days and we hadn't even given the nov24 guidelines any chance to work. Now this.

Its not even clear, at all, that the last measures were not enough. It takes at least 2 weeks of any current restrictions to even start seeing the impact of them. We have people protesting on major cities in the province at the last round of restrictions. Shit is just going to start hitting the fan now as many more people sign off.

I outlined what I would have liked to see a month or so ago. Today was essentially it except they still for some inane reason are allowing churches to remain open and wont shift to curbside pickup only for non-essential businesses.
 
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nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
34,291
20,671
HF boards
New and improved lockdown adds.

Well, what the hell, I saw a movie like this..

downsize_200k_v1


I can probably even turn the volume down on this model and she doesn't ask why we dont go for dinner or go shooping all the time during a pandemic..
I’ll take all the shooping my girlfriend will give.

 
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