OT: Coronavirus XXVII: Two Vaccines Are 90%+ Effective, How Safe Are They?

[SaltNPeca]

The bubble has been popped unfortunately. Assistant coach Michael Dyck and goalie coach Jason LaBarbera (among others) are in quarantine after someone on the support staff tested positive. Sounds like no players are involved.

COVID-19 finds its way into Team Canada's world junior camp bubble | Edmonton Sun

Saw that already. Still time tho, moreso if the tourney is delayed!

I just wanna watch some WJC, especially since I can't play hockey here. Some politicians here are talking about extending our "lockdown light".

Can't find a PS5 to order...

 

[oobga]

AstraZeneca/Oxford group vaccine results from their large scale trials published.

Covid-19: Oxford University vaccine shows 70% protection

From the article:
- 70% effective, so not has high as either Pfizer/Moderna but much cheaper and easier to distribute. Also 70% effectiveness would have been seen as a triumph little over a month ago.
- Interesting regarding effectiveness, if two full doses are given the effectiveness was 62%, but if the first dose was reduced to half and the second was a normal full dose, the effectiveness was 90%.
- 4 million doses ready to go out in UK as soon as official approval is made.


edit: One more thing about this, even though it is not in this article. This is the vaccine from which they said that one side effect could be that you develop immunity against the common cold, sign me up
for that!

Think you get immunity to the chimp virus that they use to deliver the vaccine to our cells, which then in turn produces the proteins that our body will create antibodies against.

Chances are this oxford vaccine will be a 1 time deal for each person (once your immune to the chimp virus, it can't invade your cells anymore to produce the protiens). And it sounds like the immunity to the virus might come too quickly with the high first dose for the 2nd dose to have the desired effect. The mRNA vaccines have more potential for repeat use.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have already acknowledged that I thought Alberta's early response was very strong and this includes comments on masking. But it is not true that they were ahead of the curve on masking after that. My region had a mask mandate a month before either Edmonton or Calgary and we did not have the get out of jail free card that Edmonton. Alberta is still the only province without a provincial mandate. So while the messaging started earlier, depending on which side of the freedom/restriction debate you sit on, it is possible to argue that at a policy level they have been weak on the mask front. Listening to Hinshaw I have a sense, and of course I could be wrong, that she personally would favour a mandate but her boss does not want one.

As far as the issue being only Edmonton and Calgary, that is really no different than in Ontario. But Ford was eventually convinced that on this isuue a consistent message was prudent. Kenny has taken a different approach. Who''s right and who's wrong is certainly going to be different in the eyes of different people. For me personally, I would advocate for a province wide mask mandate as I think it is a minimally invasive measure that could have very positive impact. Others of course disagree, as we know very well.

I also think it is wrong to assume that in other provinces you don't have the multi-family/ density issues that you talk about in Alberta. This is an issue everywhere. Take a look at the stats in Tronoto for example. On a neighbourhood vs neighbourhood basis you can pretty much see the impact of this sort of housing situation. Alberta has a sighly higher average household size than Ontario, but Ontario has a higher percentage of multi-generational households than Alberta according to the 2016 census.

The reality on the ground is that right now Alberta is doing much worse than Ontario but better than a place like Manitoba, after doing much better early on. In two months from now who knows.

The get out of jail free card was a city intervention, a poorly thought out and executed one. Can't blame the province for that one and I'm certainly not in the habit of supporting our City council.

Bolded is conjecture, fine, you know that, but its become a trope here its stated so much and invariably by opponents.

Myself doesn't matter to me whether the mask was provincially or region specific mandated. I mean govts are often accused of being bureaucratic and lacking such precision to even note differences and enact on them. It could be argued that region specific guidelines make sense, and also in respect that this is Alberta zeitgeist, and not Ontario and so decisions would be different here with a nod to what exists here. The pandemic also hit Alberta at a worst time when the province was struggling economically. So the region specific guidelines offer more ability to keep economy, revenue running so that the government is at least positioned to continue programs, services and try to mitigate the degree of debt reliance.

Multi generational families? Sure, to be expected Ontario, BC are highest. Alberta is 3rd among the provinces and that number increasing. But if this was broken down by neighborhood, in either Edmonton, Calgary, or Toronto, you could see that where the large resident households are, those are the highest case spikes. That pattern is strikingly obvious in Edmonton and Calgary. It makes sense. How do households of a dozen people mitigate spread?

This metric shows a different picture and that the prairie provinces are highest in residents per household. In winter, when people are indoors, thats going to factor.

• Canada: average family size, by province 2018 | Statista

In anycase Ontario is going to have more problems with this now that winter has actually hit Ontario. I mean theres always a two week lag time before you start seeing cases spike.

 

[bone]

Can we get some of those public benefits then please?

Sure. It's somewhat overstated what they actually are, though, but again it's all relative, it's not like they increase in good times either so it's not really related to the comments that were being made. In fact, the employee share of the payments for those benefits has gone up more then employer's share has in last decade. Which is fair in my opinion.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Convenient that you left out the comparisons to Toronto and Ontario and Quebec.

The comparison was amongst prairie provinces because we have regional similarity in Climate, population demographics etc. My post was specifically comparing the prairies, as winter already hit here. The winter hit late in Ontario and Atlantic Canada this year. Quebec has been a pandemic disaster zone with nearly 7000 deaths. 15X more than Alberta has suffered. Quebec is seeing a rebound as well and had 1300 cases on recent day and 34 deaths in one day. Give Quebec a week or two and they will surpass Alberta in new case rate.

This is the current situation on the ground in Quebec;

Data on COVID-19 in Québec | Gouvernement du Québec (quebec.ca)

More deaths, more hospital, more ICU, Quebec continually seeing much more severe outcomes cases than Alberta.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lots of murmuring from supposedly connected sources across other sites and Reddit that an AB lockdown is inbound this week.

The jumps in new cases and positivity are untenable.

Murmuring a week ago, 2 weeks ago, on Monday, on Friday, now back to Monday or sometime this week..

Yeah, anybody banging away on the computer in a basement can say they are a connected source and start rumors. Lets just say they haven't been right.

 

[Drivesaitl]

repeat post

 

[BlueCheeseWithWings]

Qantas CEO says airline will make Covid-19 vaccination COMPULSORY for international travel

The idea of creating Covid-19 “passports” that would allow vaccinated or presumably immune individuals from traveling freely has been floated since nearly the start of the health crisis. Speaking at the G20 summit last week, Chinese President Xi Jinping proposed introducing globally-recognized health QR codes, saying it would help to restore coronavirus-hit international trade and travel.

One of the many tactics the tyrants will use to force us into vaccination is restricting access to services such as flying.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Qantas CEO says airline will make Covid-19 vaccination COMPULSORY for international travel

The idea of creating Covid-19 “passports” that would allow vaccinated or presumably immune individuals from traveling freely has been floated since nearly the start of the health crisis. Speaking at the G20 summit last week, Chinese President Xi Jinping proposed introducing globally-recognized health QR codes, saying it would help to restore coronavirus-hit international trade and travel.

One of the many tactics the tyrants will use to force us into vaccination is restricting access to services such as flying.

But it will be for the greater good, because we will have less people getting sick and using up hospital resources, right?

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Up until recently, I never would of questioned free speech. I thought it would be something that we should fight strongly for. Now a pandemic comes along, we try and fight it, and you have people (quite a few) saying that it’s hoax, the world elite are just doing it so that they can human traffic, or whatever conspiracy theories they have that go against the pandemic. This is amplified by social media.

Should the government start to work/regulate tech companies to control the information on the internet if it is in the best interest of public health?

*Dont come at me! I’m not sure what the right answer is, it’s a thought provoking questions that I’ve been thinking about regularly.

For the record, I think we will see the government start to do this more. I’ve heard a lot of people say that they won’t download a tracing app from the government of fear of being tracked but at the same time give all their information up to google without a second thought.

 

[bone]

But it will be for the greater good, because we will have less people getting sick and using up hospital resources, right?

Except once the vaccine exists in quantities sufficient enough, then the need for proof is less of an issue because there's less risk of an unmanageable outbreak as more and more people are immunized against it.

It's kind of a circular argument. Anything permanent is unnecessary so I'd be against it. Something temporary once this first batch of vaccine is out until it is widely available, I could accept as long as it comes with strict withdrawal policy once vaccine production as reached a specific number.

 

[BlueCheeseWithWings]

But it will be for the greater good, because we will have less people getting sick and using up hospital resources, right?

If the CCP is pushing this, I have no doubt this is for the greater good. Their human rights history is impeccable.

 

[BlueCheeseWithWings]

Up until recently, I never would of questioned free speech. I thought it would be something that we should fight strongly for. Now a pandemic comes along, we try and fight it, and you have people (quite a few) saying that it’s hoax, the world elite are just doing it so that they can human traffic, or whatever conspiracy theories they have that go against the pandemic. This is amplified by social media.

Should the government start to work/regulate tech companies to control the information on the internet if it is in the best interest of public health?

*Dont come at me! I’m not sure what the right answer is, it’s a thought provoking questions that I’ve been thinking about regularly.

For the record, I think we will see the government start to do this more. I’ve heard a lot of people say that they won’t download a tracing app from the government of fear of being tracked but at the same time give all their information up to google without a second thought.

"Thought police" are currently restricting any speech that contradicts their narrative.

 

[MaxR11]

Lots of murmuring from supposedly connected sources across other sites and Reddit that an AB lockdown is inbound this week.

The jumps in new cases and positivity are untenable.

Heard the same from someone last night. Person knows someone very closely tied to the situation. Funny thing is even that well connected person say there's supposed to be an announcement today and thinks it probably is a lockdown but cant confirm given the gong show and secrecy behind the scenes.

 

[nabob]

Heard the same from someone last night. Person knows someone very closely tied to the situation. Funny thing is even that well connected person say there's supposed to be an announcement today and thinks it probably is a lockdown but cant confirm given the gong show and secrecy behind the scenes.

Another person that you know that knows someone...wow you’re like the Covid version of Eklund. Is this the same person that you know that knows someone who knows someone that plays hockey or goes to the gym?

weird how because things are kept under wraps you assume it’s a gong show. Usually consistency, keeping things close to the chest and organized would mean that things are not a gong show. Your hate for Hinshaw really clouds your ability for rational thinking.

 

[MaxR11]

Murmuring a week ago, 2 weeks ago, on Monday, on Friday, now back to Monday or sometime this week..

Yeah, anybody banging away on the computer in a basement can say they are a connected source and start rumors. Lets just say they haven't been right.

There's only been rumblings i've heard of since last friday. My source was bang on days before, about a second letter signed by 450 docs got sent to the govt.

 

[nabob]

There's only been rumblings i've heard of since last friday. My source was bang on days before, about a second letter signed by 450 docs got sent to the govt.

That was in the news before you told us what your source said...

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

If the CCP is pushing this, I have no doubt this is for the greater good. Their human rights history is impeccable.

True, they’ve done some messed up stuff. However, for the average Chinese person, their lives have been greatly improved in the last two decades. They’ve greatly grown the middle class. Most of the things they do is for their citizens greater good.

China aside, if a vaccine works, and keeps the population safe and allows the systems we use to keep functioning, is it bad to force it upon people?

Lol after typing that I realized how much I don’t want to take a rushed vaccine and as a young healthy person would rather take my chances and look after my own health.

 

[nabob]

True, they’ve done some messed up stuff. However, for the average Chinese person, their lives have been greatly improved in the last two decades. They’ve greatly grown the middle class. Most of the things they do is for their citizens greater good.

China aside, if a vaccine works, and keeps the population safe and allows the systems we use to keep functioning, is it bad to force it upon people?

Lol after typing that I realized how much I don’t want to take a rushed vaccine and as a young healthy person would rather take my chances and look after my own health.

personally I would like to see reliable antibody testing be made available. If what I had last year at Christmas was Covid, my medical field friends bet that it was, and if I have some immunity already in my system I’d rather not take a rushed vaccine.

 

[soothsayer]

This made my day, but the delusion is staggering. (There is a sizable neo-Nazi population in Germany. But the majority of Germans have a special disgust for Nazi bullshit that most non-Germans just could never understand.)

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Up until recently, I never would of questioned free speech. I thought it would be something that we should fight strongly for. Now a pandemic comes along, we try and fight it, and you have people (quite a few) saying that it’s hoax, the world elite are just doing it so that they can human traffic, or whatever conspiracy theories they have that go against the pandemic. This is amplified by social media.

Should the government start to work/regulate tech companies to control the information on the internet if it is in the best interest of public health?

*Dont come at me! I’m not sure what the right answer is, it’s a thought provoking questions that I’ve been thinking about regularly.

For the record, I think we will see the government start to do this more. I’ve heard a lot of people say that they won’t download a tracing app from the government of fear of being tracked but at the same time give all their information up to google without a second thought.

The answer to this is no and to educate yourself (not meaning you, meaning everyone).

 

[Fourier]

The get out of jail free card was a city intervention, a poorly thought out and executed one. Can't blame the province for that one and I'm certainly not in the habit of supporting our City council.

Bolded is conjecture, fine, you know that, but its become a trope here its stated so much and invariably by opponents.

Myself doesn't matter to me whether the mask was provincially or region specific mandated. I mean govts are often accused of being bureaucratic and lacking such precision to even note differences and enact on them. It could be argued that region specific guidelines make sense, and also in respect that this is Alberta zeitgeist, and not Ontario and so decisions would be different here with a nod to what exists here. The pandemic also hit Alberta at a worst time when the province was struggling economically. So the region specific guidelines offer more ability to keep economy, revenue running so that the government is at least positioned to continue programs, services and try to mitigate the degree of debt reliance.

Multi generational families? Sure, to be expected Ontario, BC are highest. Alberta is 3rd among the provinces and that number increasing. But if this was broken down by neighborhood, in either Edmonton, Calgary, or Toronto, you could see that where the large resident households are, those are the highest case spikes. That pattern is strikingly obvious in Edmonton and Calgary. It makes sense. How do households of a dozen people mitigate spread?

This metric shows a different picture and that the prairie provinces are highest in residents per household. In winter, when people are indoors, thats going to factor.

• Canada: average family size, by province 2018 | Statista

In anycase Ontario is going to have more problems with this now that winter has actually hit Ontario. I mean theres always a two week lag time before you start seeing cases spike.

I was aware that teh get out of jal free card was a local issue so if it sounded like I was blaming this on the Province that was not intended. We also had a series of local amsk mandates across teh Province but having different rules was confusing so a Provincial mandate was helpful. But as for other significant rules I actually agree that a more local solution can make sense. Theer is no need to shut down a barber shop in Kenora bcecause things are hot in Toronto.

Agiun thogh the density issue is not unique to Alberta. As I said you can preety much see the same infection pattern in Toronto that you are talking about here.

I actually acknowledged the residents per household number being marginally higher in Alberta but it is really not so big a difference as to acount for teh difference in infectio rates right now . Plus one of teh reason that this nouber is less in Ontario is that Toronto and teh ares surrounding it have a large number of tiny one beadroom appartments which you don't see in Edmonton or Calgary in nealry the same numbers. On one hand this is good from a spread perspective in teh actual unit but these building tend to be extremely dense and one the virus gets in it can infect large partf of teh building quickly. Over all Toronto has a much more dense polulation than eithe Edmonton or Calgary with over 4000 people per square km vs well under 200 for Edmonton. Even if you focus on teh densest areas in Edmonton, there is no neighbourhood in Edmonton that is anywhere near the density of many of the worst impacted neighborhoods in Toronto. So you can paint this anyway you want but right now this is about how people in the city/province are behaving.

 

[nabob]

Up until recently, I never would of questioned free speech. I thought it would be something that we should fight strongly for. Now a pandemic comes along, we try and fight it, and you have people (quite a few) saying that it’s hoax, the world elite are just doing it so that they can human traffic, or whatever conspiracy theories they have that go against the pandemic. This is amplified by social media.

Should the government start to work/regulate tech companies to control the information on the internet if it is in the best interest of public health?

*Dont come at me! I’m not sure what the right answer is, it’s a thought provoking questions that I’ve been thinking about regularly.

For the record, I think we will see the government start to do this more. I’ve heard a lot of people say that they won’t download a tracing app from the government of fear of being tracked but at the same time give all their information up to google without a second thought.

Canada’s federal government has actively been doing this for the last 5 years, not just information surrounding what’s in the interest of public health.

 

[nabob]

I was aware that teh get out of jal free card was a local issue so if it sounded like I was blaming this on the Province that was not intended. We also had a series of local amsk mandates across teh Province but having different rules was confusing so a Provincial mandate was helpful. But as for other significant rules I actually agree that a more local solution can make sense. Theer is no need to shut down a barber shop in Kenora bcecause things are hot in Toronto.

Agiun thogh the density issue is not unique to Alberta. As I said you can preety much see the same infection pattern in Toronto that you are talking about here.

I actually acknowledged the residents per household number being marginally higher in Alberta but it is really not so big a difference as to acount for teh difference in infectio rates right now . Plus one of teh reason that this nouber is less in Ontario is that Toronto and teh ares surrounding it have a large number of tiny one beadroom appartments which you don't see in Edmonton or Calgary in nealry the same numbers. On one hand this is good from a spread perspective in teh actual unit but these building tend to be extremely dense and one the virus gets in it can infect large partf of teh building quickly. Over all Toronto has a much more dense polulation than eithe Edmonton or Calgary with over 4000 people per square km vs well under 200 for Edmonton. Even if you focus on teh densest areas in Edmonton, there is no neighbourhood in Edmonton that is anywhere near the density of many of the worst impacted neighborhoods in Toronto. So you can paint this anyway you want but right now this is about how people in the city/province are behaving.

I think that shared living space contributes to transmission much more than just population density. If you have a family of 10 all sharing the same house, one gets it, they all get it. You have 10 one bed room apartments taking up the same amount of ground space as that one 2700 ft2 house it’s very unlikely for one of those people to transmit it to the other 9 as they don’t share living space.

I think it has most to do with people being irresponsible, but also a lot can be attributed to shared living areas and being largely restricted to indoor events due to cold weather.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]