OT: Coronavirus XXVI: Keep Bickering to a Minimum

[Bryanbryoil]

This is a tough subject and affects everyone one way or another. What we don't need is pages of bitchfests where people are going back and forth shit talking each other. If you can't find common ground take it to PM or just agree to disagree or you will be removed from the thread.

Click to read more...

 

[Spawn]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...er-restrictions-as-covid-cases-rise-1.5798822

Alberta's government is weighing new restrictions for the province as it sees record-breaking COVID-19 numbers.
Possible restrictions could include capacity limits on worship services and higher-risk activities like fitness classes, government officials told the CBC. They said there may also be lesser changes for businesses, such as reducing capacity or operating hours.
The possible changes are notable given Alberta Premier Jason Kenney's rejection of tighter restrictions despite a recent surge in COVID-19 cases. Kenney had instead urged "personal responsibility," including asking people not to attend parties or host social gatherings in their homes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...ha-heather-smith-jason-kenney-deena-1.5798897
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...ha-heather-smith-jason-kenney-deena-1.5798897

Dear Premier Kenney,
As health-care workers we feel it is our duty to warn of the impending health system crisis resulting from the uncontrolled spread of COVID-19 in Alberta. We have reached a juncture where only strong and decisive mandatory measures can prevent our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed.
We therefore urge the Government of Alberta to institute a set of time-limited public health restrictions that would consist of:

• Directives to work from home for anyone who is able.
• Limiting contacts to those within the household or support bubble.
• Restrictions on group recreation/sports activities.
• Suspension of group indoor activities (including indoor dining, bars, casinos, religious services, and theatres).

Due to their vital importance, we should aim to keep schools open for in-person learning options.
We are seeing an exponential rise in cases, high levels of test positivity, and already have almost double the number of hospitalizations seen in the first wave. Intensive care unit admissions and deaths have also increased markedly in the past week. Even if transmissions drop today, hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and deaths will continue to rise for weeks as current infections progress.
There are outbreaks in at least nine acute care hospitals, endangering vulnerable patients and resulting in bed and staffing shortages. As staff become ill or must quarantine, we do not have appropriately qualified individuals to fill their roles. Outbreaks in care facilities are also worsening bed shortages in hospitals as patients cannot return to their care facility where there is an outbreak.
The Edmonton zone has already deferred 30 per cent of non-urgent surgeries to account for the burdens on the health system. More delays of foundational health services (surgeries, cancer screenings, and diagnostics) will be imminent and will be severely consequential if we do not act now.
We have witnessed how quickly hospitals in Winnipeg, the United States, Belgium, and Austria have become overwhelmed. The time for incremental measures has passed, and voluntary measures, requested October 9, have not blunted the rise in cases. Our testing system is strained, and contact tracing capacities have collapsed. We see no other way to break chains of transmission and decrease cases, than to implement a "circuit breaker" of short, strict measures. Similar restrictions have been recently implemented in Winnipeg, Toronto, the United Kingdom, and Germany.
We recognize that these restrictions have their own harms, and we would urge the government to provide supports for businesses impacted by these restrictions. The evolving evidence suggests that strong, time-limited measures will not only minimize the second wave but could prevent the need for the complete lockdowns that become inevitable when the health system becomes overwhelmed. A failure to control COVID-19 spread means we cannot expect our economy to recover quickly or strongly.
We are proud of Alberta's health system and the quality of care we provide, but we believe that it is in grave jeopardy unless urgent action is taken. Please help us continue to care for the people of Alberta safely.

 

[DaGap]

I'm not sure what any more lockdowns are going to do.

Seem's simple cancel everything in the hospitals that isn't emergency level and be done with it.

Yeah more people will die from other issues and their quality of life will be awful until they receive treatment but that's what society wants.

Covid patients are the highest priority

 

[ohheyhemsky]

I'm not sure what any more lockdowns are going to do.

Seem's simple cancel everything in the hospitals that isn't emergency level and be done with it.

Yeah more people will die from other issues and their quality of life will be awful until they receive treatment but that's what society wants.

Covid patients are the highest priority

Really, I was thinking about having dedicated hospitals for this. In larger cities, would there be an availability for a specifically COVID related illness hospital, and oursourcing other procedures where it's available to be done to the surrounding hospitals?

After these outbreaks happening at hospitals all around my city, you'd think that they would try and limit the areas to which help is being provided.

 

[MaxR11]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...L-T2HN__v73U_oVC8PcIMV1LgQxFQoGBgJ7__VKjiYhvk

Hundreds of Alberta doctors, 3 major health-care unions join calls for 'circuit-breaker' lockdown

 

[nabob]

I'm not sure what any more lockdowns are going to do.

Seem's simple cancel everything in the hospitals that isn't emergency level and be done with it.

Yeah more people will die from other issues and their quality of life will be awful until they receive treatment but that's what society wants.

Covid patients are the highest priority

is that what society wants? It’s what a very small portion who speak very loud want.

 

[LaGu]

is that what society wants? It’s what a very small portion who speak very loud want.

I don't think anyone wants that. I believe that the people most loud for lockdowns and for the harshest measures, actually think that those measures in reality will avoid that specific scenario, since you'll reduce the number of covid19 patients in the hospitals.

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

 

[Nostradumbass]

Interesting that it's private enterprise (not the government) that's considering requiring vaccinations to participate:
Ticketmaster may require proof of COVID-19 vaccination for future concerts

 

[DaGap]

Really, I was thinking about having dedicated hospitals for this. In larger cities, would there be an availability for a specifically COVID related illness hospital, and oursourcing other procedures where it's available to be done to the surrounding hospitals?

After these outbreaks happening at hospitals all around my city, you'd think that they would try and limit the areas to which help is being provided.

Well my friend who works at Grey nuns in ICU says the ICU isn't the correct place to be housing Covid patients as they don't require 95% of the ICU functionality

is that what society wants? It’s what a very small portion who speak very loud want.

I've said it before. Deploy the military for a 6 month rotation to LTC's and lock them down. No visitors No workers just Military personnel

I don't think anyone wants that. I believe that the people most loud for lockdowns and for the harshest measures, actually think that those measures in reality will avoid that specific scenario, since you'll reduce the number of covid19 patients in the hospitals.

Can't have one without the other. We literally just finished a day where collectively the world decided to send young men and women to death for the better good of society.

Eventually someone has to prioritize what life is worth saving and its not going to be the 80+ crowed

 

[DaGap]

Interesting that it's private enterprise (not the government) that's considering requiring vaccinations to participate:
Ticketmaster may require proof of COVID-19 vaccination for future concerts

Heh that will be the day

 

[LaGu]

Well my friend who works at Grey nuns in ICU says the ICU isn't the correct place to be housing Covid patients as they don't require 95% of the ICU functionality



I've said it before. Deploy the military for a 6 month rotation to LTC's and lock them down. No visitors No workers just Military personnel



Can't have one without the other. We literally just finished a day where collectively the world decided to send young men and women to death for the better good of society.

Eventually someone has to prioritize what life is worth saving and its not going to be the 80+ crowed

Well I believe they absolutely can, I am against lockdowns for other reasons though.

50% of cancer deaths are above 70 years old.
66% of CDV deaths are above 70 years old.
80% of covid19 deaths are above 70 years old.

Most conditions hit the elderly hardest, that does not mean we just give up and let them pass. I mean if you think they are not worth saving then you'd need to draw the same line for people with other conditions, like cancer and cdv. Free those places up and you'll have vast resources at hand.

I know you have said to visit LTC homes and see for ourselves, my grandmother lived until she was 100 years old and she was very active and comfortable even in the last years of her life when in an LTC. I was there every couple of months, and my father much more often. It was a good place to be though, very homey and with excellent staff, I realize that all are not that fortunate.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

One thing I've noticed is the grocery retailers don't have dedicated staff wiping the carts and baskets down anymore, except the Co-op. I generally bring my own anyways and give it a wipe but it's crazy how many people I see just grab one and go into the store.

Also, I find it funny how Superstore and Wal-Mart both have signs at entry points saying masks are mandatory but there is no one at the entrances enforcing it. Last I checked, "mandatory" meant "required" (for the record, there is no masking bylaw where I live-not yet anyways).

 

[yukoner88]

Interesting that it's private enterprise (not the government) that's considering requiring vaccinations to participate:
Ticketmaster may require proof of COVID-19 vaccination for future concerts

symptom of the "Cover your ass" policies most business need to take

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[LaGu]

....
Eventually someone has to prioritize what life is worth saving and its not going to be the 80+ crowed

By the way, I will add something to this continuous comments about the 80+ crowd.

In Sweden around 3200 out of the 6000 dead are from 80+ group.
Care to take a guess on how many of those that took up ICU places? 141.
The rest were left to their own devices. That is 141 out of 3200. So no, you cannot come and say that we are going all out to save the 80+ crowds, taking up hospital places for others who need them because we really are not. The most common age is 60-69, followed by 50-59 and finally 70-79.

 

[DaGap]

Well I believe they absolutely can, I am against lockdowns for other reasons though.

50% of cancer deaths are above 70 years old.
66% of CDV deaths are above 70 years old.
80% of covid19 deaths are above 70 years old.

Most conditions hit the elderly hardest, that does not mean we just give up and let them pass. I mean if you think they are not worth saving then you'd need to draw the same line for people with other conditions, like cancer and cdv. Free those places up and you'll have vast resources at hand.

I know you have said to visit LTC homes and see for ourselves, my grandmother lived until she was 100 years old and she was very active and comfortable even in the last years of her life when in an LTC. I was there every couple of months, and my father much more often. It was a good place to be though, very homey and with excellent staff, I realize that all are not that fortunate.

Here's a story from a few years back.

My wifes grandfather was 92. He ended up getting the flu (The actual flu not the *****) Well that turned in to Pneumonia. He then had the pleasure of living in the hospital for 8 months. Then he got moved to an LTC were he lived another 6 months, He couldn't take himself to the bathroom, couldn't wash himself, couldn't feed himself. but he "lived" another 6 months before dying.

My wife asked me why I wouldn't go see him at the end. I said " He died the day he was hospitalized. Just his body is all that's left"

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

Here's a story from a few years back.

My wifes grandfather was 92. He ended up getting the flu (The actual flu not the *****) Well that turned in to Pneumonia. He then had the pleasure of living in the hospital for 8 months. Then he got moved to an LTC were he lived another 6 months, He couldn't take himself to the bathroom, couldn't wash himself, couldn't feed himself. but he "lived" another 6 months before dying.

My wife asked me why I wouldn't go see him at the end. I said " He died the day he was hospitalized. Just his body is all that's left"

I lost a relative in the past due to Pneumonia and afterwards what I saw was him looking up with his mouth open.

 

[LaGu]

I never said everyone is happy and well at LTCs... But there are several who are, should we just let them go because, becsuse what? I am not even sure what you are arguing to be honest.


Do you think it is justified not giving a elderly in perfect health a chance to live longer (like my grandmother who was 80+ for 20 years...) because there are others in LTCs who are not living a dignified life?

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

COVID-19 pandemic leaves Quebec with $15 billion deficit for 2020-2021 fiscal year

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

COVID-19 pandemic could be worsening youth mental health, clinicians warn

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[DaGap]

I lost a relative in the past due to Pneumonia and afterwards what I saw was him looking up with his mouth open.

Sorry I lost my like privilege's. *Hugz*

I never said everyone is happy and well at LTCs... But there are several who are, should we just let them go because, becsuse what? I am not even sure what you are arguing to be honest.


Do you think it is justified not giving a elderly in perfect health a chance to live longer (like my grandmother who was 80+ for 20 years...) because there are others in LTCs who are not living a dignified life?

What I'm saying is that causing harm to millions to save only a few is not only irresponsible but outright criminal.

Here's what's happening.

Say you have two patients, they both need a heart. One is 20 one is 70. Which is going to have the greater contribution to society in the next 20 years.

Right now that's what's happening and people are picking the 70 year old for the heart.


Like I've said. You utilize the military to lock down the LTC's for 6 months. No in and out for anyone other than the military assigned to that LTC.

The rest of the population carries on with life. In 6 months if the virus is still here you lock them down for another 6.