OT: Coronavirus XXIII: Keep it On Topic

[Raab]

$18 an hour is three bucks more than minimum wage. Wow, what a sweet gig.

That tells me minimum wage is too high... minimum wage has gone up 300% over the last 15 years, meanwhile a journeyman is making close to the same as he was 15 years ago. I don't think anyone in those positions would be up set making $18 if the minimum wage was back at $5/hr.

 

[nabob]

I don't think "efficiency" should be the primary concern with spending on public goods, no.

Efficiency is the fundamental reduction in the amount of wasted resources that are used to produce a given number of goods or services (output).

I’d say it should be.

You can provide life saving healthcare for 30 people or 50 people for the same cost...tell me how efficiency shouldn’t be a concern...

you really Patrik Stefan’d that one too.

 

[nabob]

Sorry but the real world doesn't function like an Econ 101 textbook.

Says the guy who thinks efficiency shouldn’t matter when it comes to public services

 

[Frank the Tank]

Not all companies operate like Apple. In the consumer electronics world if you don't treat your customers well they will simply move on to a competitor. In the health care world this is certainly not always the case. My parents were both legally blind but they were totally self sufficient living in their own home and not using any additional services until last few years. My mom needed some help for the last couple of years. Weekly visits to tend with a chronic wound and biweekly monitoring of her blood. When Home Care went private in Alberta the quality of service went from very good to horrid almost over night. Had we not been able to arrange for other alternatives it would have been enough to force them out of their home. The additional cost to the tax payer had that happened would have been far greater than the costs of the help they had before privatization.

PSW's can play a huge role in keeping seniors in their own homes. But they also need to be trained, paid and treated as professionals. So far there is little evidence that the private sector wants to make this happen. A similar thing happens in seniors care homes. Often the private homes are worse than non-profit or public facilities. Again, its not the case that if you don't like the service you can simply move on to a competitor. These places literally have a captive customer base.

That's my experience of the US healthcare system summarized in a single sentence.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I think that’s a dangerous assumption, and why I was in favour of the minimum wage increase. Some people will take any job they can to at least try to put some food on the table. But working for $10 vs $15 might not add much to the cost of a product (I think it was under $0.50 for a burger at McDs), but a 50% increase in pay will lead to more cash being circulated through the economy since those at the lower end of pay scales are more likely to spend each additional dollar they make rather than save.

it's a complicated issue IMO...having a high minimum wage could results it laying people off, having reduced hours for the worker to offset the cost, or a lot more work for the individual since the company can't hire more so you're forced to work harder
I'm just saying, if you can't make ends meet at McDonald's, no one is forcing to you stay there...find work in another profession like a trade like plumbing, or warehouse work, or cleaning a hotel, etc...
there are plenty of entry-level positions, and not all positions start at the same wage

 

[Raab]

What's the incentive for them to do that? It's not like patients can simply take their business to another hospital with better food.

Well if you have two or three food providers in the bigger hospitals then patients could pick from the food provider they like best. Forcing the other guys to deliver a better product. Won't work in the smaller rural hospitals necessarily but the U of A and RAH in Edmonton could definitely support more then one food provider. Heck they don't even have to be based in the hospitals depending what they offer. For example sandwich and salad meals could be brought in from off site as they don't need to be served warm. Pizza delivery also isn't uncommon and could be done on some days. Lots of different ways we could be delivering better food to patients.

 

[Nostradumbass]

it's a complicated issue IMO...having a high minimum wage could results it laying people off, having reduced hours for the worker to offset the cost, or a lot more work for the individual since the company can't hire more so you're forced to work harder
I'm just saying, if you can't make ends meet at McDonald's, no one is forcing to you stay there...find work in another profession like a trade like plumbing, or warehouse work, or cleaning a hotel, etc...
there are plenty of entry-level positions, and not all positions start at the same wage

If all fast food workers became tradespeople, you would see those wages drop accordingly.

A lot of those downsides you’ve cited are not supported in economic theory (or in practice). It’s usually a very small per-unit cost increase to pay those increased wages, but the benefits of potentially have a larger customer base can offset the people who now deem the product “too expensive.”

 

[Skar]

Its way beyond the topic of this thread but Canada, with the gross efficiencies of spread out population, massive transport costs, massive travel costs, massive heating, utility costs, of course were never going to competitively match the possibilities that could occur in population packed, and dense Europe where travel and transportation costs of goods and services is much less per dollar goods sold produced. Australia doesn't have the heating and utility costs incumbent in Canada at this latitude. Canada is already inefficient by its geographic expanse and latitude . This seems poorly, or not at all understood in present day.

The Hudsons bay Company had this firm reckoning from the start of trade.

How does that relate to the amount of vacation time offered? Not a rhetorical question or anything, just curious about your take.

I haven't done too much research or reading about this topic, as I would like. I admit that.
Did a quick google search of the first company that came to mind, Coca-Cola (no particular reason). Here are how their 2014 profits compare by region.

And of course since this is going a bit off topic, I'll read your reply if you choose to make one but will probably end it there. Have a good one.

Geographic Information	(Dec. 31, 2014) Revenues (in millions $)	(Dec. 31, 2014) % Y/Y Revenue Change
Africa	2,730.00	6.75 %	-1.19 %
Asia	5,746.00	14.22 %	-2.1 %
Corporate/Other	272.00	0.67 %	-11.69 %
Europe & other	5,536.00	13.7 %	3.79 %
Latin America	4,657.00	11.52 %	-5.71 %
North America	21,479.00	53.14 %	-0.51 %
Total	40,420.00	100 %	-0.94 %

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If all fast food workers became tradespeople, you would see those wages drop accordingly.

A lot of those downsides you’ve cited are not supported in economic theory (or in practice). It’s usually a very small per-unit cost increase to pay those increased wages, but the benefits of potentially have a larger customer base can offset the people who now deem the product “too expensive.”

you cited McDonalds, what about small businesses?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Closing this thread as we are over 1K posts. If you guys and gals would like to continue to talk about nursing home/end of life care please take it to the OT thread. I understand that it is a very tough and touchy subject as no one wants to see their loved ones receiving anything less than the absolute best care possible.