OT: Coronavirus XVI: Hey Covid-19, Piss Off Already

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5 Mins 4 Ftg

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I will wear this mask when I fly next.

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ChaoticOrange

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Jun 29, 2008
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Went to the Keg last night and I thought they did a pretty good job. I talked to the server and he said they were only running 37 out of 80 some-odd tables and everyone - right down to the chefs - were in masks.

Can't imagine how much cooking in a mask would suck. Suffice it to say I tipped generously.
 

LaGu

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Jan 4, 2011
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Today was my first day back in the office (in New York for those of you who don't know) and let me tell you something, we're f***ed.
It was only a sparse amount of people in Manhattan relative to normal (still crowded relative to most places) and half the people weren't wearing masks talking with their buddies/significant other or on a cell spraying those droplets everywhere and some that had masks were walking around with them pulled down (what's the point of wearing one in a crowded environment if it's not on the face?). Even some people inside my building weren't wearing masks.

I just don't see how there won't be a huge 2nd wave when everything reopens and with the thousands and thousands of protesters crowding the streets, lots of people walking around as if coronavirus doesn't exist anymore. Sigh
People are relaxing over here as well, which is worrying of course.

I do hold so hope though that we are over the worst, at least over here, and hopefully also in NY. I read the other day that in NYC there are about 21% with antibodies (13 June). Over here it's at around 20% as well. My hope and belief is that this, together with the "careful" part of the population, will hold down a second wave.

At least over here we have lots of people who still won't go out, another big chunk of people go out but rarely and with all protections (mask, gloves, disinfectant), a third group which is a bit in between the former and being completely relaxed, and finally those who just don't care. If you add the people with antibodies, the people who don't go outside and those who do with all the necessary protections I think we're easily at 60-70% of the population which won't contribute to the spread (or at least very little). Even if the people who don't care at all are like 20% it should not really matter that much (except to annoy other people). As long as the there is a big majority of people not contributing to the spread I think we should be fine.

That is my theory, trying to stay positive :)
 
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joestevens29

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Restaurants aren't filling 5% capacity right now. Nobody is going to them.

We're going to start losing restaurants in Edmonton faster than we did in the lockdown because now they have overhead.
I don't know where you get 5% from to be honest. Some places I've been to are packed to capacity.

With that being said on your last comment with overhead, I wonder if things will change with minimum wage. Sounds like Kenney is looking at reducing it. This has been one of the factors that has hurt the restaurant businesses the most.
 

Drivesaitl

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Today was my first day back in the office (in New York for those of you who don't know) and let me tell you something, we're f***ed.
It was only a sparse amount of people in Manhattan relative to normal (still crowded relative to most places) and half the people weren't wearing masks talking with their buddies/significant other or on a cell spraying those droplets everywhere and some that had masks were walking around with them pulled down (what's the point of wearing one in a crowded environment if it's not on the face?). Even some people inside my building weren't wearing masks.

I just don't see how there won't be a huge 2nd wave when everything reopens and with the thousands and thousands of protesters crowding the streets, lots of people walking around as if coronavirus doesn't exist anymore. Sigh

Gotta be tough.

I'm so fortunate in this I'm semi retired and going back is at my whim.

I dislike office relations at the best of time as they seem to attract my attention to some worse aspects of people, but seeing coworkers be completely disrespectful of others, and their own safety, and can't help but be evaluating that, and if Coronavirus doesn't bring down the office then tensions and conflicts will.

People won't adhere unless the directions come from higher up. Has to be strict rules around usage of masks, protocals, modeled and followed and peopls simply sent home without pay when they don't abide.

But aside from your office, and building, its quite disappointing that the worst hit city on planet Earth that people are not taking precautions seriously. Where just getting to work, to the office, is a hazard.

I'm going on a limb again but humans have a specific hardwiring to danger that is not at all helpful in relation to a pandemic. Our programming decieves us. Evolutionarily we are programmed to respond to signs of visual danger, and as long as the danger is visible. Be it a predator, adversary tribe, etc. Once that danger is thought to be gone we want to return to normal function. Everything in our programming tells us to just get on with things. The Tiger is gone. We have no internal programming to deal with an invisible tiger that is omnipresent. I think the latter thought is helpful because as much as we can blame others, think they are ignorant, etc. humans hardwiring isn't effective in responding to this nature of danger.
 

doulos

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Oct 4, 2007
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I don't know where you get 5% from to be honest. Some places I've been to are packed to capacity.

With that being said on your last comment with overhead, I wonder if things will change with minimum wage. Sounds like Kenney is looking at reducing it. This has been one of the factors that has hurt the restaurant businesses the most.

Do you have some Alberta/Edmonton specific reading I can do on how the minimum wage increases have actually hurt the food industry? I have heard lots of opinions on either side, but rarely see good data that supports either side. Gotta be tough to tease out what has been covid19, what has been regular market downturn, and what has been related to minimum wage increases.
 

Nostradumbass

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Jan 1, 2007
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Do you have some Alberta/Edmonton specific reading I can do on how the minimum wage increases have actually hurt the food industry? I have heard lots of opinions on either side, but rarely see good data that supports either side. Gotta be tough to tease out what has been covid19, what has been regular market downturn, and what has been related to minimum wage increases.
The best way to ensure everyone gets paid fairly would be to set the wages for what the role is actually worth, raise prices and eliminate tipping. It also gets rid of the tax evasion from cash-based tips.
 

joestevens29

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Do you have some Alberta/Edmonton specific reading I can do on how the minimum wage increases have actually hurt the food industry? I have heard lots of opinions on either side, but rarely see good data that supports either side. Gotta be tough to tease out what has been covid19, what has been regular market downturn, and what has been related to minimum wage increases.
Just from people I know in the industry. Lots of places were having issues far before Covid.

I think minimum wage went up close to 40% over a few years. Not only did it affect what you paid your staff, but a lot of your suppliers were in the same boat and had to increase the price of their goods.
 
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doulos

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The best way to ensure everyone gets paid fairly would be to set the wages for what the role is actually worth, raise prices and eliminate tipping. It also gets rid of the tax evasion from cash-based tips.

That's my gut feeling as well, but I don't know if my gut feeling is correct.
 

doulos

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Just from people I know in the industry. Lots of places were having issues far before Covid.

I think minimum wage went up close to 40% over a few years. Not only did it affect what you paid your staff, but a lot of your suppliers were in the same boat and had to increase the price of their goods.

I can see the argument for it. I can also see how an increase in minimum wage can make a difference in the lives of low income earners, so both sides seem important.
 

joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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I can see the argument for it. I can also see how an increase in minimum wage can make a difference in the lives of low income earners, so both sides seem important.
The issue becomes when now all of a sudden you are making less tips or having a harder time finding a job because businesses are losing sales or shutting down.

I also don't get why kids that live at home need to be making $15 an hour. You then have the servers that are making an extra 100 bucks in tips, which is another $10 an hour on top of their $15. All of a sudden that $15 an hour is $25, which is quite a good wage
 
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Nostradumbass

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That's my gut feeling as well, but I don't know if my gut feeling is correct.
Restaurants will be against it because higher sticker price = lower sales, even if the overall cost is the same. Servers & bartenders will be against it because they'll have to pay tax on their full income, not just what they choose to report. For some industry employees, the wages will be lower as well since they can bring home $400-800/night on a busy weekend. Hell, over Stampede people bring in $1000-1500/day as a server/bartender/beer tub girl if they're working the right tents.
 

joestevens29

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I will say this when I heard last night that Bo Diddly's shutdown in Mill Woods Town Center I was not surprised at all. You can't have that big of a location and get away with the amount of customers they had.

They were apparently close to shutting down as well in January, but I think they just shut the one location down. Covid just finished them off.

I don't even know what is in that mall anymore.
 

Nostradumbass

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The issue becomes when now all of a sudden you are making less tips or having a harder time finding a job because businesses are losing sales or shutting down.

I also don't get why kids that live at home need to be making $15 an hour. You then have the servers that are making an extra 100 bucks in tips, which is another $10 an hour on top of their $15. All of a sudden that $15 an hour is $25, which is quite a good wage
Lots of these people aren't kids who live at home though. There are a ton of people who have immigrated here and are trying to feed their families on a McDonald's salary. Some people haven't had the same opportunities for education that some of us have and work minimum wage labour & warehousing jobs. Some people who are servers are trying to pay their way through university so they don't graduate $80k in the hole.

It's not just Timmy working his first job to pay for his Supreme sweatpants and a pair of Jordans to flex to his friends in grade 11.
 

doulos

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Oct 4, 2007
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The issue becomes when now all of a sudden you are making less tips or having a harder time finding a job because businesses are losing sales or shutting down.

I also don't get why kids that live at home need to be making $15 an hour. You then have the servers that are making an extra 100 bucks in tips, which is another $10 an hour on top of their $15. All of a sudden that $15 an hour is $25, which is quite a good wage

Yes, it's complicated. The restaurant industry is obviously very different than someone making minimum wage at a retail outlet, and yet a cut in minimum wage will be across the board. The single mom who is working some sort of Dollar Store job is really going to feel that minimum wage cut.

It's an issue with lots going on, and a lot of opinions, but that's why I was hoping to see some data.
 
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joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Restaurants will be against it because higher sticker price = lower sales, even if the overall cost is the same. Servers & bartenders will be against it because they'll have to pay tax on their full income, not just what they choose to report. For some industry employees, the wages will be lower as well since they can bring home $400-800/night on a busy weekend. Hell, over Stampede people bring in $1000-1500/day as a server/bartender/beer tub girl if they're working the right tents.
I'm fine with tipping and I'm fine with them not paying tax on it. Heck I already paid tax on that money
 
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joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Lots of these people aren't kids who live at home though. There are a ton of people who have immigrated here and are trying to feed their families on a McDonald's salary. Some people haven't had the same opportunities for education that some of us have and work minimum wage labour & warehousing jobs. Some people who are servers are trying to pay their way through university so they don't graduate $80k in the hole.

It's not just Timmy working his first job to pay for his Supreme sweatpants and a pair of Jordans to flex to his friends in grade 11.
Honestly if this is the case then maybe they shouldn't come here.
 
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doulos

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Oct 4, 2007
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Restaurants will be against it because higher sticker price = lower sales, even if the overall cost is the same. Servers & bartenders will be against it because they'll have to pay tax on their full income, not just what they choose to report. For some industry employees, the wages will be lower as well since they can bring home $400-800/night on a busy weekend. Hell, over Stampede people bring in $1000-1500/day as a server/bartender/beer tub girl if they're working the right tents.

Yeah, lots to consider. We certainly have become used to very low prices in many areas and if we had to pay the actual cost of things under this adjusted setup it would make many of us rethink ourr behaviours I suppose. covid19 is certainly running a lot of us through that thinking process right now.
 
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