Coronavirus XV: Keep Up the Good Work (no off-topic discussions)

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KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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Sure seems that way. AGEISM is demonstrably worse and theres been nothing like Covid-19 to demonstrate that. The Military report on the Care homes operating in Canada are devastating. Not just because of the untold tragedies, but that the old, the infirm, were provided a level of *care* that is sub to what animals might receive in a pound. Wheres the protests on the streets regarding the Millions of Seniors dying over the years through heinous level of attention?

All deaths are tragic, all ism's are as well. But its interesting that one Racism death can illicit such response. 100K senior deaths elicit hardly any such response. just saying.

Which well is poisoned more? Seniors are so devalued in our society they are left to rot and die, usually sight unseen. Or when seen with all atrocity silenced, not responded to, not normally reported, not normally news. I'd rather be left stranded on an iceberg in bitter cold temperatures in subartic than have to experience what seniors have had to experience.

The common scene world over in hospitals is an outbreak of tiktok videos by healthcare staff many even mocking the sick and dying. Being allowed to do this in free democracy as the dying rot in their filth helpless, not getting the care after even fighting in the last WW for this society..

Ageism is the biggest atrocity here and its not even close in terms of casualties due to it. Many seniors are harmed even at the hands of their progeny who would rather have their inheritance, than parents or grandparents.

rant/done

But if any rant fully deserves to be here its whats gone on with seniors *care*. That's the elephant ism in the room.

Even in these threads theres been calls of "boomer cull".

Wheres the outcry over all that?


Braedley: Our long-term care system is failing because we're ageist | Ottawa Citizen
I don't think police officers are murdering seniors, at least not to my knowledge. If a senior was murdered like Mr. Floyd was, the offending officer's head would likely be on a pike.
 

shoop

Registered User
Jul 6, 2008
8,333
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Edmonton
I think you Albertan’s are doing better, when it cones to wearing masks, than us in the GVRD. Anecdotally, in stores here it’s not even 10% of customers wearing masks. And of those wearing masks, it’s mostly the elderly. The younger people (under 40) don’t appear to wear them at all.

I'm not sure that Albertans are necessarily doing better than British Columbians wearing masks. Agreed the uptake on masks is incredibly low, in the Edmonton zone at least.

Edmonton has 972,000 people and 50 active Covid cases. If masks become popular I will wear one. Until they do, or I have become immunocompromised is some way, I won't be wearing a mask.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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I don't think police officers are murdering seniors, at least not to my knowledge. If a senior was murdered like Mr. Floyd was, the offending officer's head would likely be on a pike.

That's your sum response? Seniors may not be being murdered by police but they are systematically not being provided with the necessities of life. In an order that is thousands times greater in its toll.

Thanks for confirming the view that seniors deaths, atrocity waged against them, just doesn't matter.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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I'm not sure that Albertans are necessarily doing better than British Columbians wearing masks. Agreed the uptake on masks is incredibly low, in the Edmonton zone at least.

Edmonton has 972,000 people and 50 active Covid cases. If masks become popular I will wear one. Until they do, or I have become immunocompromised is some way, I won't be wearing a mask.
We get so many mixed messages about masks, I’m glad it’s a choice to wear one or not. The WHO posted a video on their website, and their head doctor on transmission of Covid said healthy people, unless they are caregivers, shouldn’t be wearing masks at any time.
 

shoop

Registered User
Jul 6, 2008
8,333
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Edmonton
But if any rant fully deserves to be here its whats gone on with seniors *care*. That's the elephant ism in the room.

Even in these threads theres been calls of "boomer cull".

Boomer cull is an incredibly callous thing to say.

The real question is trying to come up with an acceptable level of infection, and yes death. Because they are life and death decisions. However, there is an acceptable level of death we accept with influenza. Yes, most of those deaths happen to seniors.

In 2019-20 there were have been 36 flu deaths. Likely more, but those are the most recent numbers I could find.
In 2018-19 there were 28 deaths and 92 deaths the year before that.

In all years there were disproportionate numbers of seniors deaths.

The real elephant in the room will be deciding what an acceptable level of deaths from covid is.
 
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KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
71,804
30,723
Calgary
That's your sum response? Seniors may not be being murdered by police but they are systematically not being provided with the necessities of life. In an order that is thousands times greater in its toll.

Thanks for confirming the view that seniors deaths, atrocity waged against them, just doesn't matter.
Right, that's what I said.

You wanna know what the real problem is, old man? Human entitlement.

Discrimination isn't going anywhere unfortunately. But racism needs to be weeded out.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
71,804
30,723
Calgary
What a disgusting post. Especially in context. Worse than your priors in the same threads.

Last time I respond to any of your posts.
My heart weeps for sure. I just hope racism dwindles in certain parts of the world.

If you can't tackle the most prevalent form of discrimination how are you going to tackle others?
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
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Sure seems that way. AGEISM is demonstrably worse and theres been nothing like Covid-19 to demonstrate that. The Military report on the Care homes operating in Canada are devastating. Not just because of the untold tragedies, but that the old, the infirm, were provided a level of *care* that is sub to what animals might receive in a pound. Wheres the protests on the streets regarding the Millions of Seniors dying over the years through heinous level of attention?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-19-coronavirus-ontario-update-may-26-1.5584665#report

All deaths are tragic, all ism's are as well. But its interesting that one Racism death can illicit such response. 100K senior deaths elicit hardly any such response. just saying.

Which well is poisoned more? Seniors are so devalued in our society they are left to rot and die, usually sight unseen. Or when seen with all atrocity silenced, not responded to, not normally reported, not normally news. I'd rather be left stranded on an iceberg in bitter cold temperatures in subartic than have to experience what seniors have had to experience.

The common scene world over in hospitals is an outbreak of tiktok videos by healthcare staff many even mocking the sick and dying. Being allowed to do this in free democracy as the dying rot in their filth helpless, not getting the care after even fighting in the last WW for this society..

Ageism is the biggest atrocity here and its not even close in terms of casualties due to it. Many seniors are harmed even at the hands of their progeny who would rather have their inheritance, than parents or grandparents.

rant/done

But if any rant fully deserves to be here its whats gone on with seniors *care*. That's the elephant ism in the room.

Even in these threads theres been calls of "boomer cull".

Wheres the outcry over all that?


Braedley: Our long-term care system is failing because we're ageist | Ottawa Citizen
Is there a connection between the terrible treatment of our seniors in care, and the belief that (some have promoted) people with diminished cognitive functioning have lesser human value? A great many seniors in care are in those homes because they are losing their cognitive processing. They certainly wouldn’t understand the nuances of “bullsh*t science”. Do we value these nursing home seniors less, because we see them as intellectually less? Is this the sad truth why 82% of all Covid deaths in Canada are seniors in nursing homes?
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
71,804
30,723
Calgary
Is there a connection between the terrible treatment of our seniors in care, and the belief that (some have promoted) people with diminished cognitive functioning have lesser human value? A great many seniors in care are in those homes because they are losing their cognitive processing. They certainly wouldn’t understand the nuances of “bullsh*t science”. Do we value these nursing home seniors less, because we see them as intellectually less? Is this the sad truth why 82% of all Covid deaths in Canada are seniors in nursing homes?
They also have weaker immune systems, and it's difficult to keep seniors in homes properly separated (especially if they don't remember they're supposed to be separated). No doubt it needs to be re-examined but there's not some conspiracy to weed out older people.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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Is there a connection between the terrible treatment of our seniors in care, and the belief that (some have promoted) people with diminished cognitive functioning have lesser human value? A great many seniors in care are in those homes because they are losing their cognitive processing. They certainly wouldn’t understand the nuances of “bullsh*t science”. Do we value these nursing home seniors less, because we see them as intellectually less? Is this the sad truth why 82% of all Covid deaths in Canada are seniors in nursing homes?

The professor I quoted touched on some of the reasons. One interesting part is that people don't want to see, touch, feel seniors because of a basic fear of their own aging, their own vulnerability. But its got to the extent that society is shutting seniors in these conditions, sight unseen, left to die, because they don't want to see them or even know they exist.
 

Nostradumbass

Divinity
Jan 1, 2007
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They also have weaker immune systems, and it's difficult to keep seniors in homes properly separated (especially if they don't remember they're supposed to be separated). No doubt it needs to be re-examined but there's not some conspiracy to weed out older people.
It seems that people are just searching for conspiracies instead of simply applying Occam's razor. When you have a compromised immune system and are in direct contact with people who work at multiple homes & are exposed to the public, these things can spread rapidly. It's much like the spread in warehouses/meat packing plants due to the close proximity to others, except the elderly have weaker immune systems.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,920
What a disgusting post. Especially in context. Worse than your priors in the same threads.

Last time I respond to any of your posts.

I’ve read some terrible comments here, but this poster you’re responding to wrote (maybe?) the worst. Why would he post such hatred towards our senior population?

“You wanna know what the real problem is, old man? Human entitlement.”

Is this type of hatred (someone must have to post something like this, especially in a country where our elderly in care suffered so horribly from Covid 19) prevalent in our younger populations?
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,920
It seems that people are just searching for conspiracies instead of simply applying Occam's razor. When you have a compromised immune system and are in direct contact with people who work at multiple homes & are exposed to the public, these things can spread rapidly. It's much like the spread in warehouses/meat packing plants due to the close proximity to others, except the elderly have weaker immune systems.

Seniors in nursing homes are now like carcasses in meat processing plants?
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
71,804
30,723
Calgary
I’ve read some terrible comments here, but this poster you’re responding to wrote (maybe?) the worst. Why would he post such hatred towards our senior population?

“You wanna know what the real problem is, old man? Human entitlement.”

Is this type of hatred (someone must have to post something like this, especially in a country where our elderly in care suffered so horribly from Covid 19) prevalent in our younger populations?
Way to assume too much. The topic at hand was systematic racism in America. I said it’s bad, he came in and asked about something else. There’s no conspiracy here to cull older people. They will be more susceptible to diseases than the younger generation with better immune systems. That’s not to say ageism doesn’t exist because it does. But it wasn’t the topic that we were discussing. Police outright murdering POC in broad daylight is a serious thing that needs to be dealt with. If it continues to flourish do you think ageism is going to vanish?
 

AM

Registered User
Nov 22, 2004
8,461
2,512
Edmonton
Way to assume too much. The topic at hand was systematic racism in America. I said it’s bad, he came in and asked about something else. There’s no conspiracy here to cull older people. They will be more susceptible to diseases than the younger generation with better immune systems. That’s not to say ageism doesn’t exist because it does. But it wasn’t the topic that we were discussing. Police outright murdering POC in broad daylight is a serious thing that needs to be dealt with. If it continues to flourish do you think ageism is going to vanish?
Every law that they enforce will kill people.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
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Seniors in nursing homes are now like carcasses in meat processing plants?
I’ve read some terrible comments here, but this poster you’re responding to wrote (maybe?) the worst. Why would he post such hatred towards our senior population?

“You wanna know what the real problem is, old man? Human entitlement.”

Is this type of hatred (someone must have to post something like this, especially in a country where our elderly in care suffered so horribly from Covid 19) prevalent in our younger populations?

Its interesting to see the views exhibited. As if to highlight the concerns raised. Even though its happening here in Canada, and thousands of Seniors are dying through the country and in Alberta its seemingly more important to speak of one death in the USA. That's the loaded spring.

Apparently there needs to be a smoking gun agenda or "conspiracy" in regards to seniors dying of noncare to warrant concern over the atrocity of seniors care in this country. Or in the US, or in Italy or etc..

I can't deter ageism though, I can only illustrate it. Apparently I'm led to believe you don't stand up against ageism, you further it... least what I've learned this morning. Why is ageism being accepted so readily when its so clear how much it exists and what a huge problem it is in this country?
 
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Nostradumbass

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Its interesting to see the views exhibited. As if to highlight the concerns raised. Even though its happening here in Canada, and thousands of Seniors are dying through the country and in Alberta its seemingly more important to speak of one death in the USA. That's the loaded spring.

Apparently there needs to be a smoking gun agenda or "conspiracy" in regards to seniors dying of noncare to warrant concern over the atrocity of seniors care in this country. Or in the US, or in Italy or etc..

I can't deter ageism though, I can only illustrate it. Apparently I'm led to believe you don't stand up against ageism, you further it... least what I've learned this morning. Why is ageism being accepted so readily when its so clear how much it exists and what a huge problem it is in this country?
I think there has always been inter generational conflict coming from both sides. “Lazy participation trophy entitled millennials” was a common phrase from the older folk. Does that excuse what was happening in the Quebec seniors’ homes? Not a chance.

Those workers who abandoned their duty to care for the elderly for whatever reason they chose is sickening. I don’t know if it’s a culture thing or what, but it doesn’t appear to be happening anywhere else in the country (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on this). What has been happening in Alberta is a massive spread due to healthcare aides working in different homes, essentially cross pollinating the seniors’ centres. If one senior gets sick from a visiting relative, spreads it to the aide who is helping them, and then it is spread across various homes to many vulnerable people, that is extremely dangerous to a lot of people.

The province tried to ban workers from working in multiple homes but the union fought for the aides’ rights to keep working. Unfortunately that creates a highly dangerous situation for a lot of seniors.
 
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Drivesaitl

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I think there has always been inter generational conflict coming from both sides. “Lazy participation trophy entitled millennials” was a common phrase from the older folk. Does that excuse what was happening in the Quebec seniors’ homes? Not a chance.

Those workers who abandoned their duty to care for the elderly for whatever reason they chose is sickening. I don’t know if it’s a culture thing or what, but it doesn’t appear to be happening anywhere else in the country (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on this). What has been happening in Alberta is a massive spread due to healthcare aides working in different homes, essentially cross pollinating the seniors’ centres. If one senior gets sick from a visiting relative, spreads it to the aide who is helping them, and then it is spread across various homes to many vulnerable people, that is extremely dangerous to a lot of people.

The province tried to ban workers from working in multiple homes but the union fought for the aides’ rights to keep working. Unfortunately that creates a highly dangerous situation for a lot of seniors.

The abandoned stations happened here as well. AHS had to work hard to get coverage as a Nursing home in Northern Alberta was abandoned, staff just walked off, in April.

Manoir du Lac staff were overwhelmed by pandemic: director of care | Edmonton Journal

But be clear in this we're talking about much more than Seniors dying just because of Covid. We're talking about seniors dying because of coexisting conditions caused by neglectful care, were talking about patients with absesses, infections, due to not being moved or lying in this piss or excrement for days. We're talking about Seniors not being fed, being fed far too little, or dying because they were fed laying down and asphyxiated. The reports are startling. But the Calgary facility that has had so many Covid deaths also had several other scathing reports prior to this. There hasn't been the political will, and apparently not the societal will, to do much about it. I'm openly wondering why.
 

PerformanceMcOil

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Aug 2, 2005
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Its interesting to see the views exhibited. As if to highlight the concerns raised. Even though its happening here in Canada, and thousands of Seniors are dying through the country and in Alberta its seemingly more important to speak of one death in the USA. That's the loaded spring.

This is a ridiculous stance. What is and has been happening in the states has been going on for generations, and is completely independent of what is happening in the long-term care facilities. Highlighting one doesn't minimize the other and I have no idea why you would to phrase it as, 'but what about', when you could have said, 'yes and'. By this line of thought, any problem in the western world (including what is happening to black people in the States and seniors in Canada) could be dismissed by saying - look at what is happening in [insert third-world country here].

The reality is, in order to get any of them fixed, we, as a society, need to care about all of them. A society that is willing to turn its back on one marginalized population isn't going to suddenly start caring about another. Once enough individuals start caring, then governments will and maybe then we'll see real change.
 

Drivesaitl

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This is a ridiculous stance. What is and has been happening in the states has been going on for generations, and is completely independent of what is happening in the long-term care facilities. Highlighting one doesn't minimize the other and I have no idea why you would to phrase it as, 'but what about', when you could have said, 'yes and'. By this line of thought, any problem in the western world (including what is happening to black people in the States and seniors in Canada) could be dismissed by saying - look at what is happening in [insert third-world country here].

The reality is, in order to get any of them fixed, we, as a society, need to care about all of them. A society that is willing to turn its back on one marginalized population isn't going to suddenly start caring about another. Once enough individuals start caring, then governments will and maybe then we'll see real change.

I did both. I guess its how you want to read it. It wasn't whatabboutism. its more why isn't anybody speaking about the ageism epidemic that is going on HERE in CANADA. I was triggered to write that due to an editorial article in the Journal, which I cited.

Caring is not universal in present day. Don't fool yourself. What we are seeing is mobilized, militant, activist care denoting what the focal points of concern are and standing up for those only. Telling us which disenfranchised we should care about. Unfortunately seniors and geriatrics aren't on that list. Seniors lives matter? Anybody?
 

Nostradumbass

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The abandoned stations happened here as well. AHS had to work hard to get coverage as a Nursing home in Northern Alberta was abandoned, staff just walked off, in April.

Manoir du Lac staff were overwhelmed by pandemic: director of care | Edmonton Journal

But be clear in this we're talking about much more than Seniors dying just because of Covid. We're talking about seniors dying because of coexisting conditions caused by neglectful care, were talking about patients with absesses, infections, due to not being moved or lying in this piss or excrement for days. We're talking about Seniors not being fed, being fed far too little, or dying because they were fed laying down and asphyxiated. The reports are startling. But the Calgary facility that has had so many Covid deaths also had several other scathing reports prior to this. There hasn't been the political will, and apparently not the societal will, to do much about it. I'm openly wondering why.
Thanks for the info, I wasn’t aware of the home in Northern AB that faced similar issues.

With that said, it appears to be more related to the pandemic rather than ageism. Even the article you linked said it was due to the pandemic.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Thanks for the info, I wasn’t aware of the home in Northern AB that faced similar issues.

With that said, it appears to be more related to the pandemic rather than ageism. Even the article you linked said it was due to the pandemic.

The report is more detailed, is contained at the bottom of the article. More info will come out. So much of Covid-19 deaths in seniors pops involved comorbitity as well. But how much of that pre-existing condition involves substandard care and conditions are the resultant of care home neglect. But in anycase simply not feeding people, giving them water, cleaning them, etc. Not providing even a modicum of care is an observed across several facilities that apparently it took the military to get something done about it. (this has been outed countless times before but to no observable effect)
 
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Nostradumbass

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The report is more detailed, is contained at the bottom of the article. More info will come out. So much of Covid-19 deaths in seniors pops involved comorbitity as well. But how much of that pre-existing condition involves substandard care and conditions are the resultant of care home neglect. But in anycase simply not feeding people, giving them water, cleaning them, etc. Not providing even a modicum of care is an observed across several facilities that apparently it took the military to get something done about it. (this has been outed countless times before but to no observable effect)
Well, there's only one option I guess: Increase fees at the seniors' homes to provide a higher standard of care and limit the profit for the companies that run them.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Well, there's only one option I guess: Increase fees at the seniors' homes to provide a higher standard of care and limit the profit for the companies that run them.

Fees are quite high as it is. One problem is these being operated on profit basis rather than non profit, and in such middleman globalnationals like "Revera" care being involved. Revera being a particularly reprehensible firm that have had investigations in several of their facilities. The Mackenzie Towne facility in Calgary, where such a high proportion of covid deaths have occurred in Alberta, is one such facility. They had numerous investigations PRIOR to Covid-19 due to patients dying for completely preventable reasons.
 
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