Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates)

[Mess]

But there are 40 mutations of this virus Mess. How do you know you have Covid19 from a 5min test as they are saying in the US or 1hr test? If you can shed some light how to scientifically test for the common cold and variations down to isolating this particular mutating strain into 5min or 1hr test, please tell me.

Saliva and Mucus is fine, in a lab. I have no issues with this but I saw something on TV where they said 80% of the Chinese test kits were false positives. I mean, is this for real?

I'm no scientist, but I view these 15 minute result Coronavirus test similar to say an off the shelf pregnancy test concept that shows home results in a short time, except the body fluid being analyzed is salivia instead of urine. Clearly there are reactants that when they come in contract with the desired ensign or (whatever you prefer to call it) within a body fluid which are able to detect it.

Similarly how a road side breathalyzer test can test by police for the existence of alcohol/drugs in saliva etc and then when that test positive they would then do more detail tests to determine the levels of those.

Even from high school chemistry we know a simple litmus test paper can change colour based on what fluid it comes in contact with. Same principle here when checking for something that can be found and analyzed in saliva.

PS. False positives while undesirable when accuracy is the key, they are also not dangerous and in fact preferable because that means you're not sick with the coronavirus. However a simple answer/guess for false positives is that there could be numerous things found in a body fluid that would register similarly when tested for.

ie If I ate a orange or sucked a lemon and did a litmus test for acidic acid, both would show positive but if I only wanted to know who ate an orange, I would get false positives also because of other things that could cause the same result. If you did get a positive you would then likely then do further more in-depth testing like blood etc.

 

[rumman]

This is hardly surprising news. Just China being China.

the time for putting political correctness into the "parking lot" is long overdo, and see things for what they are, who's responsible, and how to eliminate not only this crisis, but any possibility of this happening again. In short, time for Canada to become far more self reliant (as much as possible) and stop doing business with corrupt/unethical/morally irresponsible countries.

 

[thewave]

I'm no scientist, but I view these 15 minute result Coronavirus test similar to say an off the shelf pregnancy test concept that shows home results in a short time, except the body fluid being analyzed is salivia instead of urine. Clearly there are reactants that when they come in contract with the desired ensign or (whatever you prefer to call it) within a body fluid which are able to detect it.

Even from high school chemistry we know a simple litmus test paper can change colour based on what fluid it comes in contact with. Same principle here when checking for something that can be found and analyzed in saliva.

View attachment 340261

PS. False positives while undesirable when accuracy is the key, they are also not dangerous and in fact preferable because that means you're not sick with the coronavirus. However a simple answer/guess for false positives is that there could be numerous things found in a body fluid that would register similarly when tested for.

ie If I ate a orange or sucked a lemon and did a litmus test for acidic acid, both would show positive but if I only wanted to know who ate an orange, I would get false positives also because of other things that could cause the same result. If you did get a positive you would then likely then do further more in-depth testing like blood etc.

Fair enough, would you allow your daughter or sons to be forcibly taken into quarantine as a result of a 5min test / 1hr test on the side of the street, all under the Quarantine act? Curious because this is escalating it seems and may become the case.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Ford needs to be careful with what he says today. My daughter called me last night in an anxiety panicked state and she is a professional but struggles at times with depression. I needed to give her a big hug because I know in past it works. But we can't now. So she had to suffer last night until I got her prescription filled this morning. I am sure there are others out there too who struggle with anxiety and if da message today is TOO STARK it will cause issues for some of us. I hear some of you saying we need to be harsh about it to scare people. Well maybe it would help most but it won't help all of us. Going into a weekend freaked out with anxiety is not healthy either.

It's really a lose-lose for him. People earlier in this thread the other day called for Ford (and Tory) to be forthcoming with actual numbers as opposed to being vague and keep tossing out "it could get really bad". Now with it set to be released, we are getting that definitive answer. I don't think Ford was using scare tactics -- I think he was generally concerned. You could see it in his eyes and hear it in the tone of his voice.

I think many people are going to feeling a sense of anxiety like your daughter, as well as panic. Your daughter I assume is into her adult years. I don't know how we are going to get our sensitive 10-year old to avoid hearing or reading anything of it.

 

[stealth1]

What Ford said yesterday and the way he said it, was completely out of line. It was nasty and on the same level psychological abuse IMHO. I did not appreciate or the genuine fear and anxiety as a result I had to witness due to his actions. If it will now be the policy of our GOV to terrorize the populace, the Social Contract is rendered NULL AND VOID.

I don't agree at all. They have been nice about so far. The problem is there is too many people that still think this is nothing. I see it every day where I work with people shopping as if it's just another day. Its not just about the vulnerable but a lot will need to be hospitalized if they get this. Our hospitals can only cope with so many people at a time. By doing what we are doing is helping the hospitals cope with this.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

the time for putting political correctness into the "parking lot" is long overdo, and see things for what they are, who's responsible, and how to eliminate not only this crisis, but any possibility of this happening again. In short, time for Canada to become far more self reliant (as much as possible) and stop doing business with corrupt/unethical/morally irresponsible countries.

While I agree with your premise we must all realize that going to Walmart and Costco you are effectively buying into China ... and unfortunately over da past 20+ years we have moved our manufacturing to China ... why? $25 per day labour costs to increase profits ... should we stop buying product from our fortune 500 companies? should we stop buying their stock in public markets? I mean what you are proposing is such a massive undertaking to turn back da clock 20+ years. I think we all are shocked by this virus. But first step is to find antibodies and trace them back to close to their origins. We must use a fact based approach. There are people out there saying this virus traces back to late 2018 in Italy too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't agree at all. They have been nice about so far. The problem is there is too many people that still think this is nothing. I see it every day where I work with people shopping as if it's just another day. Its not just about the vulnerable but a lot will need to be hospitalized if they get this. Our hospitals can only cope with so many people at a time. By doing what we are doing is helping the hospitals cope with this.

I agree. I've never been a fan of Ford, not even close. I have to say though that I've been impressed with him during this crisis.

 

[Jojalu]

Maybe it's more related to your openness to opinions that contradict yours.

That is true. I was really just teasing him though.

Your point however carries merit

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I agree. I've never been a fan of Ford, not even close. I have to say though that I've been impressed with him during this crisis.

I've never had a disdain for Ford as many others, but understand his abrasiveness rubs people the wrong way. But I too think he has handled this extremely well. It's brought humility/humbleness to him. And when he kept saying he was all about the people of the Province of Ontario -- you see that was completely genuine.

 

[Leafs1991]

It's really a lose-lose for him. People earlier in this thread the other day called for Ford (and Tory) to be forthcoming with actual numbers as opposed to being vague and keep tossing out "it could get really bad". Now with it set to be released, we are getting that definitive answer. I don't think Ford was using scare tactics -- I think he was generally concerned. You could see it in his eyes and hear it in the tone of his voice.

I think many people are going to feeling a sense of anxiety like your daughter, as well as panic. Your daughter I assume is into her adult years. I don't know how we are going to get our sensitive 10-year old to avoid hearing or reading anything of it.

What's there to panic about?

 

[Big Muddy]

the time for putting political correctness into the "parking lot" is long overdo, and see things for what they are, who's responsible, and how to eliminate not only this crisis, but any possibility of this happening again. In short, time for Canada to become far more self reliant (as much as possible) and stop doing business with corrupt/unethical/morally irresponsible countries.

On the market/financial channel this morning Cramer mentioned moving the supply chain for medical equipment & supplies back to the U.S. Two other interesting ideas were:

• A 30-year bond like the war bond to help raise money for the medical system, state & local governments.
• Greater utilization of the American military. One part of that was that the military has 150,000 doctors.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It's really a lose-lose for him. People earlier in this thread the other day called for Ford (and Tory) to be forthcoming with actual numbers as opposed to being vague and keep tossing out "it could get really bad". Now with it set to be released, we are getting that definitive answer. I don't think Ford was using scare tactics -- I think he was generally concerned. You could see it in his eyes and hear it in the tone of his voice.

I think many people are going to feeling a sense of anxiety like your daughter, as well as panic. Your daughter I assume is into her adult years. I don't know how we are going to get our sensitive 10-year old to avoid hearing or reading anything of it.

Personally I want to know how bad it could be. I like to know what da models are saying for Ontario and Toronto. Both best case and worst case. But clearly not all of us can handle it. My daughter is an actuary now and has struggled with anxiety since high school. She understands these numbers/models much better than me. That business is about understanding death. Funny it is a strange world we live in where someone can be very very good at something but also struggle with da reality of it.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

What's there to panic about?

That they or their loved ones are going to die.

 

[thewave]

I don't agree at all. They have been nice about so far. The problem is there is too many people that still think this is nothing. I see it every day where I work with people shopping as if it's just another day. Its not just about the vulnerable but a lot will need to be hospitalized if they get this. Our hospitals can only cope with so many people at a time. By doing what we are doing is helping the hospitals cope with this.

There is no freaking reason to leave a cliffhanger and you know it! You don't say terrible news TOMORROW to people that have anxieties, just tell them or say nothing. That is a form of psychological terrorism and I am serious about the social contract being NULL AND VOID. GOV is charged with keeping the peace and calm of society not threatening the people. I hope you understand the danger of when the people make up their mind that GOV is less safe than no GOV, you should use your peanut and understand that means every man for themselves, sovereigns, freeman of the land out for themselves and families adhering to NO LAW.

This may be more applicable in the States and I am not advocating anything like this, this is or has the potential to be a HORROR SHOW. If it is not taken with the utmost care and consideration and he can not handle his responsibility as a community leader and peace keeper, he needs to STEP DOWN.

 

[Mess]

Fair enough, would you allow your daughter or sons to be forcibly taken into quarantine as a result of a 5min test / 1hr test on the side of the street, all under the Quarantine act? Curious because this is escalating it seems and may become the case.

I would think that is step #1 and then when isolated from the public further blood/urine tests can be done.

Similarly how a road side breathalyzer test can test for the existence of alcohol/drugs in saliva legally by police officers when checking for driving while under the influence, and then when that test is positive they would then do more detail tests to determine the levels of those. If the breathalyzer showed positive the police would have the right to detain the driver.

I see that example above that already exist already, similar to your example now with the virus. Drunk driving can take lives and is dangerous behavior, and infected people with coronavirus can also..

So while it might infringe on people rights by being detained, they're being done with good intentions for safety reason for the public as well as the individual themselves.

PS. My family can not be in your situation because I grounded my entire family including, wife, kids and my 80 year old mother while practicing strict stay at home orders, where I'm the only one that is allowed out and I shop for 3 household food and medicine , and only go out 1 X every 2 weeks before self isolating myself for next 14 days thereafter. Everybody else is grounded in their homes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Personally I want to know how bad it could be. I like to know what da models are saying for Ontario and Toronto. Both best case and worst case. But clearly not all of us can handle it. My daughter is an actuary now and has struggled with anxiety since high school. She understands these numbers/models much better than me. That business is about understanding death. Funny it is a strange world we live in where someone can be very very good at something but also struggle with da reality of it.

Yeah considering her anxiety issues, that's not good. Glad her prescription got filled, not sure what else to say.

 

[thewave]

Yeah considering her anxiety issues, that's not good. Glad her prescription got filled, not sure what else to say.

I had two people triggered by his comments. An elderly and a younger person. That cliffhanger was highly insensitive and irresponsible. He is supposed to be the positive message guy, the hope and faith guy and not the DOOM NEWS COMING TOMORROW GUY! If I want that I will listen to people in this thread. The Officials need to be the velvet glove or just tell it like it is.

I hope you understand that a large percentage of the population can not handle uncertain terms. They need told or not told at all.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I had two people triggered by his comments. An elderly and a younger person. That cliffhanger was highly insensitive and irresponsible. He is supposed to be the positive message guy, the hope and faith guy and not the DOOM NEWS COMING TOMORROW GUY! If I want that I will listen to people in this thread. The Officials need to be the velvet glove or just tell it like it is.

I hope you understand that a large percentage of the population can not handle uncertain terms. They need told or not told at all.

I doubt a large percentage can't handle waiting for one day. Good luck anyway though.

 

[stealth1]

There is no freaking reason to leave a cliffhanger and you know it! You don't say terrible news TOMORROW to people that have anxieties, just tell them or say nothing. That is a form of psychological terrorism and I am serious about the social contract being NULL AND VOID. GOV is charged with keeping the peace and calm of society not threatening the people. I hope you understand the danger of when the people make up their mind that GOV is less safe than no GOV, you should use your peanut and understand that means every man for themselves, sovereigns, freeman of the land out for themselves and families adhering to NO LAW.

This may be more applicable in the States and I am not advocating anything like this, this is or has the potential to be a HORROR SHOW. If it is not taken with the utmost care and consideration and he can not handle his responsibility as a community leader and peace keeper, he needs to STEP DOWN.

They have been too nice if you ask me. While it does invoke fear and as you call it psychological terrorism what they have done so far isn't working with everyone. There are still far too many people that going on with their life like normal. Just last week in Niagara Falls, a lot of people were walking in groups a long the falls, and there were people hanging out at the beach. That's with them telling people to stay home and only going out when necessary. Maybe putting fear in those people they will finally understand. Far too many keep thinking this is just a mild flu.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They have been too nice if you ask me. While it does invoke fear and as you call it psychological terrorism what they have done so far isn't working with everyone. There are still far too many people that going on with their life like normal. Just last week in Niagara Falls, a lot of people were walking in groups a long the falls, and there were people hanging out at the beach. That's with them telling people to stay home and only going out when necessary. Maybe putting fear in those people they will finally understand. Far too many keep thinking this is just a mild flu.

Perhaps the idea behind waiting a day to give the numbers and warning first that the information would be scary was to get as many people as possible to tune in for the news today. Seems like a sensible tactic considering how many people still aren't taking this seriously.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yeah considering her anxiety issues, that's not good. Glad her prescription got filled, not sure what else to say.

Thanks once meds kick in she will be over da shaking and sweats ... crazy to see it really ... people work themselves into a bad mental state and then can't control the physical reaction no matter what you say

 

[thewave]

They have been too nice if you ask me. While it does invoke fear and as you call it psychological terrorism what they have done so far isn't working with everyone. There are still far too many people that going on with their life like normal. Just last week in Niagara Falls, a lot of people were walking in groups a long the falls, and there were people hanging out at the beach. That's with them telling people to stay home and only going out when necessary. Maybe putting fear in those people they will finally understand. Far too many keep thinking this is just a mild flu.

Too nice? Too stupid is more like it. Stay 2m apart, don't wear a mask, use public transit with enclosed loop ventilation jam packed with an airborne virus that kills the elderly. Doesn't matter if you work in a nursing home or not and the symptoms don't show for up to 14 days. What I just wrote is policy and reality and most importantly MORONIC, Counter intuitive/productive. If you can defend the above, you're a brave man.

 

[Jojalu]

CBC reporting that without mitigation 6000 deaths in April.

Under current mitigation 2000 in April

Stricter measures can bring it down to the hundreds

 

[thewave]

I doubt a large percentage can't handle waiting for one day. Good luck anyway though.

It's enough Gary. Nobody wants to see a leader in panic, at that point people are thinking. We are totally not in the right hands right now.

Report summary - Mood and Anxiety Disorders in Canada, 2016
According to key findings of the report, approximately 1 in 10 (3.5 million) Canadians used health services annually for mood and anxiety disorders, and higher rates were observed among adolescent and adult females, middle-aged and older adults and those with other chronic conditions, particularly asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

 

[Pookie]

Sigh

3M says Trump officials have told it to stop sending face masks to Canada