Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates) V

[Legion34]

Good news! A large, peer-reviewed study on hydroxychloroquine found positive results.

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

Wait. So trump was right?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Wait. So trump was right?

The original study that claimed that Hydroxychloroquine was bad turned out to be made by a company that existed for 3 months and was run by a nobody with multiple malpractice lawsuits against him. They hired an adult actress to pretend to be their marketing director, it's such an obvious scam of a "company" that it's shocking their data was treated seriously at any point.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The original study that claimed that Hydroxychloroquine was bad turned out to be made by a company that existed for 3 months and was run by a nobody with multiple malpractice lawsuits against him. They hired an adult actress to pretend to be their marketing director, it's such an obvious scam of a "company" that it's shocking their data was treated seriously at any point.

I think a lot of countries studies determined it didn’t help, now one that does.

 

[mikeo1]

The original study that claimed that Hydroxychloroquine was bad turned out to be made by a company that existed for 3 months and was run by a nobody with multiple malpractice lawsuits against him. They hired an adult actress to pretend to be their marketing director, it's such an obvious scam of a "company" that it's shocking their data was treated seriously at any point.

Original study? There have been dozens of studies on HCQ. The Lancet study was not the original, it was just the most high profile because it was retracted which was played up by certain political groups who have dogmatically come to support HCQ because of Trumps endorsement.

The Henry Ford study is a retrospective analysis. These are not the best types of studies because they are performed after the fact and patients are not randomly sorted to different treatment arms. They are weaker than the gold standard of evidence: randomized controlled trials (RCT). In the Henry Ford study, they excluded about 10% of the study population because they were still in hospital. That’s a huge number. It also seems like the patients that received HCQ were admitted to hospital later on in the pandemic, which is important because they likely had other interventions that improved their survival rate. For example, HCQ patients were twice as likely to receive dexamethasone. A recent RCT showed that dexamethasone significantly improved survival in hospitalized Covid19 patients.

There have been numerous other retrospective studies that have not shown an advantage to HCQ. We really should not be relying on these retrospective studies anymore since we now have access to two good RCTs that show no benefit to HCQ, and one RCT that show no benefit to HCQ as a prophylactic. The weight of this evidence isn’t changed by one inferior study.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Original study? There have been dozens of studies on HCQ. The Lancet study was not the original, it was just the most high profile because it was retracted which was played up by certain political groups who have dogmatically come to support HCQ because of Trumps endorsement.

The Henry Ford study is a retrospective analysis. These are not the best types of studies because they are performed after the fact and patients are not randomly sorted to different treatment arms. They are weaker than the gold standard of evidence: randomized controlled trials (RCT). In the Henry Ford study, they excluded about 10% of the study population because they were still in hospital. That’s a huge number. It also seems like the patients that received HCQ were admitted to hospital later on in the pandemic, which is important because they likely had other interventions that improved their survival rate. For example, HCQ patients were twice as likely to receive dexamethasone. A recent RCT showed that dexamethasone significantly improved survival in hospitalized Covid19 patients.

There have been numerous other retrospective studies that have not shown an advantage to HCQ. We really should not be relying on these retrospective studies anymore since we now have access to two good RCTs that show no benefit to HCQ, and one RCT that show no benefit to HCQ as a prophylactic. The weight of this evidence isn’t changed by one inferior study.

It was high profile because it was the main study on the topic that the media referred to, it's not like it only became popular 3 months after it was published when all the issues with it came up. I'm not saying HCQ is a viable treatment, it's more a criticism of how we allowed a garbage study by a garbage company to influence policy. The Lancet study was the specific one referred to by the WHO and France when they banned HCQ trials, people should be concerned at how easy it is to publish unverified and likely outright fabricated data and have decision makers take it at face value. It wasn't even a sophisticated effort, one guy with moderate academia experience and a small marketing budget could replicate what they did and publish misleading data.

 

[mikeo1]

It was high profile because it was the main study on the topic that the media referred to, it's not like it only became popular 3 months after it was published when all the issues with it came up. I'm not saying HCQ is a viable treatment, it's more a criticism of how we allowed a garbage study by a garbage company to influence policy. The Lancet study was the specific one referred to by the WHO and France when they banned HCQ trials, people should be concerned at how easy it is to publish unverified and likely outright fabricated data and have decision makers take it at face value. It wasn't even a sophisticated effort, one guy with moderate academia experience and a small marketing budget could replicate what they did and publish misleading data.

The study was withdrawn within two weeks of it being published, not 3 months. You’re grossly overstating it’s importance. No HCQ trials were banned, they were paused while the safety data was reviewed and have since been restarted. There have been other retrospective reviews both before and after the Lancet study that basically concluded that HCQ is not effective. More important, as I mentioned, we now have three RCTs that show HCQ is not effective against COVId19 and one RCT that has shown that it is not effective as a prophylaxis. The question that remains to be answered is whether HCQ increases adverse outcomes in people with Covid19, which so far the RCTs have not given us a consistent answer (the larger European and American trials don’t seem to have shown any harm, whereas the smaller Chinese RCT did).

 

[Polaris1010]

Florida as a Developing Country | by Michael Spence & Chen Long - Project Syndicate

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Florida as a Developing Country | by Michael Spence & Chen Long - Project Syndicate

What third wave is this about. I didn’t know it completely was under control and came back twice. Stuff like this is just B.S that clouds the water in the shallow end of the gene pool. Third wave, yeah right.
I find that very misinforming and thats not right. Am i missing something why you posted this. Who are they actually. Wow

This is a global health pandemic first. This is a economic article confusing the issues. The economy breaking down is a symptom not the disease.

Anyways to heavy for today. Nobody cares in certain countries. See where that gets them. Canadians are awesome at sticking together is what i had reinforced through this. Thats what i will run with. Way to go everyone

 

[Polaris1010]

This is a global health pandemic first. This is a economic article confusing the issues. The economy breaking down is a symptom not the disease.

I only read the article once, so I could be wrong about the details I remembered. The guys who wrote probably a couple of non-medical people who have PhD in another subject, so they are not dummies. This is what I think I remember.

1. They view the "waves" of infections as a global phenomenon.

2. The first wave hit East Asia. The second wave hit Europe. The third wave hit the United States and developing world. This sounds fairly accurate in terms of the timing. Who got hit and when.

3. This is the most important part, how the United States reacted to it. According to the data they displayed, it is out of control.

In the developing world, they do not have the best health care facilities, and they are too poor to remained locked down indefinitely. That was a point the authors wanted to make.

Lo and behold, the Americans are doing the exact same thing in some of their states/provinces, as what a developing country would do.

When I read that, I was shocked, so I post.

If that is what the numbers are saying, and that is the state's policy according to the governor, then we have to accept it, and whatever potential consequences that follow.

 

[Polaris1010]

When I read that, I was shocked, so I post.

Okay, I thought of something, so I will be blunt.

What that article was, it was a warning to the governors in some of the states in America.

The authors were being blunt in their warning to the governors about opening up inappropriately.

"Hey, look governor . . . what you are doing is what a 3rd world shit hole country would do."

Ain't that da truth!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Exactly. Is a huge issue that is being overlooked by so many people.

Here here. Da kids are depressed not seeing their buddies. Da parents can't work because they have to become teachers at home. Da setup is terrible for everyone. Everyone loses badly. Most of da old old folks are very well off in their homes and can easily self isolate at home. Kids can drop off groceries and meds pretty easily for them. This is now more about keeping da real old fuddy duddies at home.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Original study? There have been dozens of studies on HCQ. The Lancet study was not the original, it was just the most high profile because it was retracted which was played up by certain political groups who have dogmatically come to support HCQ because of Trumps endorsement.

The Henry Ford study is a retrospective analysis. These are not the best types of studies because they are performed after the fact and patients are not randomly sorted to different treatment arms. They are weaker than the gold standard of evidence: randomized controlled trials (RCT). In the Henry Ford study, they excluded about 10% of the study population because they were still in hospital. That’s a huge number. It also seems like the patients that received HCQ were admitted to hospital later on in the pandemic, which is important because they likely had other interventions that improved their survival rate. For example, HCQ patients were twice as likely to receive dexamethasone. A recent RCT showed that dexamethasone significantly improved survival in hospitalized Covid19 patients.

There have been numerous other retrospective studies that have not shown an advantage to HCQ. We really should not be relying on these retrospective studies anymore since we now have access to two good RCTs that show no benefit to HCQ, and one RCT that show no benefit to HCQ as a prophylactic. The weight of this evidence isn’t changed by one inferior study.

NO ONE HAS A CLUE YET WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOES NOT WORK. PEOPLE ARE GUESSING. IN FACT NO ONE EVEN TRULY UNDERSTANDS SYMPTOMS YET. IT IS A COMPLETE GONG SHOW. THE US IS ALL ABOUT $$$$. THE 13 DOCS ON CDC BOARD WHO WERE TAKING $$$$ FROM GILEAD (REMDESEVEER???) IS JUST AS BAD. FOLLOW DA $$$$. IT SAYS A LOT.

 

[kb]

NO ONE HAS A CLUE YET WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOES NOT WORK. PEOPLE ARE GUESSING. IN FACT NO ONE EVEN TRULY UNDERSTANDS SYMPTOMS YET. IT IS A COMPLETE GONG SHOW. THE US IS ALL ABOUT $$$$. THE 13 DOCS ON CDC BOARD WHO WERE TAKING $$$$ FROM GILEAD (REMDESEVEER???) IS JUST AS BAD. FOLLOW DA $$$$. IT SAYS A LOT.

They don't even bother to hide the insider trading/conflicts of interest anymore.

Yet we are supposed to do what "they" say. When for them it's all about the $$$ and making sure there is still a pandemic around when the drugs become available, and not about the safety of the population at large.

Truly sickening.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

They don't even bother to hide the insider trading/conflicts of interest anymore.

Yet we are supposed to do what "they" say. When for them it's all about the $$$ and making sure there is still a pandemic around when the drugs become available, and not about the safety of the population at large.

Truly sickening.

So true ... da whole thing has become a political football between drug companies pushing their products and getting health agencies on side at board level ... i am like you i mistrust all of them now ... get Ford healthcare to say one thing ... get CDC board to say another ... who has got da biggest pockets as both sides say they have peer reviewed concrete results

 

[m1ker]

making sure there is still a pandemic around when the drugs become available

yep, have us all wear masks and disintegrate our immune system so we require drugs to survive a common cold. Prior to Covid, there were many research studies showing how over sanitizing is bad and it's the reason why we have so many more allergies and diseases. Good luck googling those studies now, its all been taken down.

To me, common sense is to enforce strict food restrictions, remove bad food from fast foods, grocery stores. Promote healthy foods, good diets, good sleep, make healthy foods affordable, enforce exercise time at work. Seems like the only accepted plan is to hide until we have drugs and pre occupy yourself with how racism is bad. Everyone seems to forget the massive manipulation of the people with the Cambridge analytica scandal that happened like last year

 

[Magic Man]

 

[mallory67]

Anyone else think they need to put a fork in this season and call it done?
Some much virus ... and not sure these young stars need to be out there risking their future ....

 

[Metroid]

Cool/interesting video, but not a fan of these guys lol

 

[mikeo1]

NO ONE HAS A CLUE YET WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOES NOT WORK. PEOPLE ARE GUESSING. IN FACT NO ONE EVEN TRULY UNDERSTANDS SYMPTOMS YET. IT IS A COMPLETE GONG SHOW. THE US IS ALL ABOUT $$$$. THE 13 DOCS ON CDC BOARD WHO WERE TAKING $$$$ FROM GILEAD (REMDESEVEER???) IS JUST AS BAD. FOLLOW DA $$$$. IT SAYS A LOT.

RCTs are not guessing. But yes, it is still early days.

The only drug that has shown a mortality benefit is dexamethasone, a generic drug that has been around for 70 years. Not sure what that has to do with Gilead.

 

[Peasy]

Anyone else think they need to put a fork in this season and call it done?
Some much virus ... and not sure these young stars need to be out there risking their future ....

How is playing in a bubble that is testing everyone every single day, not allowing people to leave, more dangerous than what players are currently doing?

Edit:
How NHL plans to operate secure ‘bubbles’ in Toronto and Edmonton - TSN.ca
I don't see how that is not safer than living a normal life during these times, especially in the States.

 

[PromisedLand]

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes, it has all the characteristic of aerosolized spread. This why the in the SSE people were infected that were not in contact with the host and 97 percent were indoors and the other were combo indoor and out.

I’m glad the news is starting to report this which will lead to run on anti-viral sprays and HEPA AC filters.

 

[Kiwi]

yep, have us all wear masks and disintegrate our immune system so we require drugs to survive a common cold. Prior to Covid, there were many research studies showing how over sanitizing is bad and it's the reason why we have so many more allergies and diseases. Good luck googling those studies now, its all been taken down.

To me, common sense is to enforce strict food restrictions, remove bad food from fast foods, grocery stores. Promote healthy foods, good diets, good sleep, make healthy foods affordable, enforce exercise time at work. Seems like the only accepted plan is to hide until we have drugs and pre occupy yourself with how racism is bad. Everyone seems to forget the massive manipulation of the people with the Cambridge analytica scandal that happened like last year

My government put my entire country under virtual house arrest for well over a month so you will forgive me if I'm not exactly keen to have them deciding what i can and cannot eat or what sort of exercise regime i should be using at my place of employment

I just want to be left alone to live my life without excessive interference from the government

 

[Nineteen67]

Here here. Da kids are depressed not seeing their buddies. Da parents can't work because they have to become teachers at home. Da setup is terrible for everyone. Everyone loses badly. Most of da old old folks are very well off in their homes and can easily self isolate at home. Kids can drop off groceries and meds pretty easily for them. This is now more about keeping da real old fuddy duddies at home.

no kidding....

For children (0-17 years), cumulative COVID-19 hospitalization rates are much lower than cumulative influenza hospitalization rates at comparable time points during recent influenza seasons."

 

[Blue Nate]

The anti-mask crazies are emerging now as municipalities in Ontario start implementing by-laws.