Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates) V

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The Hanging Jowl

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Apr 2, 2017
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We've averaged under 10 deaths per day in all of Canada since really August (about 6 on average). 700 people die per day on average in Canada from various causes. No lockdowns. 23 people die every day in Canada from flu and flu related pneumonia every day in average (4 times as many as those dying from Covid-19 right now). No lockdowns.

What's different? I could save a hundred people a day if you gave me the power to close highways and roads, shut down convenience stores and fast food so people can't eat crap and spend $350,000,000,000 for...whatever I want to save lives.

I can't believe after all this time people are still buying this garbage. I'll be the first person to call you out the very next time a little girl/boy can't get life saving medication under OHIP (or whatever your health system is called) because it's "too expensive".
 
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JT AM da real deal

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Oct 4, 2018
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Is that confirmed?
No it is not. Ontario Health is strongly advising Ford to go back to phase 2 before Friday. Ford has not made a decision that I have heard. We will see what he does. My neighbour is an emerg doc at Trillium. Emerg visits went through roof yesterday. I think numbers will reflect tomorrow.
 

Nineteen67

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No it is not. Ontario Health is strongly advising Ford to go back to phase 2 before Friday. Ford has not made a decision that I have heard. We will see what he does. My neighbour is an emerg doc at Trillium. Emerg visits went through roof yesterday. I think numbers will reflect tomorrow.

Are people going to their primary care provider or an urgent care clinic with CLI or do they only go to the ED if they’re sick?

Originally, before we knew what was going on, we only met patients in the parking lot, but we let them in now and do the quick antigen test. I Wondered if you knew whether Ontario has strict rules on where to go if you’re ill.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Are people going to their primary care provider or an urgent care clinic with CLI or do they only go to the ED if they’re sick?

Originally, before we knew what was going on, we only met patients in the parking lot, but we let them in now and do the quick antigen test. I Wondered if you knew whether Ontario has strict rules on where to go if you’re ill.
No idea I try to stay away from all health care facilities where possible because gotta think people that go more likely to be sick
 

JT AM da real deal

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Boy...That’s tough for those business owners who were probably following guidelines and are unlikely super spreader areas anyway.
Hopefully if they do it it is only Toronto Peel and Ottawa ... no need to shut down province for big city issues ... why should places suffer who are doing a great job
 

Nineteen67

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No idea I try to stay away from all health care facilities where possible because gotta think people that go more likely to be sick
Do not stay away from your regular schedule visit or if have an immediate medical concern. Don’t put it off.

Florida is putting out PSA telling people to go to their visits and look after their medical care. For e.g., ICU are operating at dangerously low levels now (70%) statewide. Which is concerning.
 

TopChedder

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Hopefully if they do it it is only Toronto Peel and Ottawa ... no need to shut down province for big city issues ... why should places suffer who are doing a great job


So just saying if they decide to shut down southern Ontario regions it will cripple the province, and hurt the country as it's the economic driver for Canada and all of Ontario. More than half the residents reside in these areas lol and add Ottawa to that list and you may as well say bye to economic prosperity.

So let's hope not.

P.S. Most of us in the "big cities" are doing a great job so why should we also suffer?
 

Nineteen67

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So just saying if they decide to shut down southern Ontario regions it will cripple the province, and hurt the country as it's the economic driver for Canada and all of Ontario. More than half the residents reside in these areas lol and add Ottawa to that list and you may as well say bye to economic prosperity.

So let's hope not.

P.S. Most of us in the "big cities" are doing a great job so why should we also suffer?

Take precautions, put things in place to help curb the spread but you can’t shut businesses down completely. I get not having a 20k at Leafs game but not allowing a restaurant or small business to open seems illogical.
 
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Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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I still don’t understand why some are taking COVID lightly. Ofcourse, we can all point to hospitalization numbers and think this is nothing....but don’t you think it might be too late if that numbers is at a high level?
I am not saying, let’s shut everything down...but some where the govt needs to find a balance
 

Jojalu

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Feb 22, 2019
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Take precautions, put things in place to help curb the spread but you can’t shut businesses down completely. I get not having a 20k at Leafs game but not allowing a restaurant or small business to open seems illogical.


I guess I would say that until Ontario does a better job keeping it out of LTC'S, they will have to use caution. Ridiculous that there are 46 outbreaks inOntario right now in LTC'S when that is really all we need to keep safe.

As we discussed back in May, it is harder than it seems to keep asymptomatic people( mostly staff) out.

Poor job by Ontario. We should have spent more figuring out that issue.
 

Clark4Ever

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Boy...That’s tough for those business owners who were probably following guidelines and are unlikely super spreader areas anyway.

I don't think we will see sweeping changes across the province this time. There may be specific types of businesses in specific regions targeted.
 

Kiwi

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How don't you understand that deaths lag behind confirmed cases? You don't wait for your house to catch on fire before you buy a fire extinguisher. You don't wait for thousands to die before you put mitigation steps in effect.

How don't you understand the death rate is extremely low and getting lower as time goes on and we develop better ways of treating people?

That's why you give case numbers not hospital capacity and death rate numbers now, because you know you have nothing and the evidence is moving against you
 

Jojalu

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Feb 22, 2019
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That is not 100% accurate. Both of you are right.

He is correct in saying, there is a lag, and quite a bit of one before hospitalizations and deaths start. Easy to prove that as it has happened everywhere where it has started to gain traction.

You are correct that deaths are way, way down from where we were in April/May.

But the virus started to spread in Feb and we didnt see the damage until much later.

Hopefully it doesnt get out of control in LTC homes, and we only see hospitalizations rise and not deaths.

But, in the last 3 weeks, hospitalizations have more than tripled. Since most of those hospitalized are younger, and we know treat this much better, we don't see deaths rise in 4-5 weeks
 
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Man Bear Pig

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I still don’t understand why some are taking COVID lightly. Ofcourse, we can all point to hospitalization numbers and think this is nothing....but don’t you think it might be too late if that numbers is at a high level?
I am not saying, let’s shut everything down...but some where the govt needs to find a balance
What I dont understand is how people will just shrug off certain stats. As in, 3% of people over 65 who get covid die(I made that figure up) and some people are just meh about it. Do you not have grandparents, parents, co-workers etc of that age? I'm not saying shut everything down or what have you, but to dismiss unnecessary deaths is insane to me.
 
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HolyCrap

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Oct 2, 2015
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So just saying if they decide to shut down southern Ontario regions it will cripple the province, and hurt the country as it's the economic driver for Canada and all of Ontario. More than half the residents reside in these areas lol and add Ottawa to that list and you may as well say bye to economic prosperity.

So let's hope not.

P.S. Most of us in the "big cities" are doing a great job so why should we also suffer?

yup. Also I feel for small to medium sized businesses. In fact some larger ones are in trouble too. Another lockdown for this and we will all be in trouble. It’s a serious disease for some folks. But sometimes Mother Nature does her thing. This is not a lockdown and ruin everyone worthy scenario. Mind you lotsa folks around my area are working for cash on the side and collecting government handouts. This country is in for a a very rough time soon. And us folks who are working through this and contributing economically are going to get the shit covered end of the stick
 

GQS

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Aug 2, 2005
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So you post a bunch of potential side effects that may result from getting the virus, but you don't post how many people are actually suffering from these kinds of side effects? Its almost like you want to create hysteria and fear to keep people in line rather than posting all the info and DEFUSING such fears and anxiety in people. Seriously please tell me how many people are suffering from these long term effects vs how many people who had the virus who have recovered with little to no side effects?

Why not try and be honest with what you're posting instead of being like the media and our politicians and medical experts and only highlighting information that supports your narrative? Its like a few months ago when the media was jumping all over the story of some kids developing some kind of inflammatory syndrome that may be linked to the virus and they were blowing that story up until it eventually flamed out because very few kids actually developed that issue.

The same goes for all these other conditions that we're tying to the virus. Unless these things are happening in hundreds of thousands of people then why scare people over it unless your intention is to purposely keep people in fear of a virus that has been repeatedly been proven to be not very lethal to the overwhelming majority of people?

Why do you think that on the entire African continent there's been only about 35,000 deaths TOTAL? Is it because they're handling the virus far better than western countries? That they have more knowledge and advanced medical systems in place to handle it better than us? Or is it simply because they have a very young population that's largely healthy and are short on seniors for the virus to kill?

The bottom line is as I've said many times before, the health of a population is FAR more important than worrying about the number of infections. If our medical experts and politicians would've understood this from the beginning, we'd would've suffered much few deaths and accomplished it without all economic damage we've done to ourselves.
 
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GQS

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Aug 2, 2005
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What I dont understand is how people will just shrug off certain stats. As in, 3% of people over 65 who get covid die(I made that figure up) and some people are just meh about it. Do you not have grandparents, parents, co-workers etc of that age? I'm not saying shut everything down or what have you, but to dismiss unnecessary deaths is insane to me.

Most people ARE NOT dismissing the deaths of older people or the sick. But what people who keep saying you don't want to infect your grandparents with the virus and kill them don't seem to understand is that the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few.

Do you really think its worth ruining or at least significantly affecting the lives of tens of millions of people is a price worth paying to save the lives of the most sick and elderly who if they didn't die of this virus that many of them will die of some other kind of infection or complication anyways? Or why not look at it from a different perspective and say that if we had no shutdown and simply went on with our lives that we could have more funds available to give the most sick and vulnerable the very best treatment and care instead of having to go into massive debt as we're doing now?

Imagine if you were a general of a huge army and you saw that several of your divisions were in danger of being destroyed by the enemy and rather than accepting that they are a lost cause, you instead decide that using the rest of your army to save them at all costs was worth it even if it meant possibly losing your whole army and the war. That's where we're at with this virus where we believe that 157,000 confirmed virus cases and 9,300 deaths OUT OF 37 MILLION CANADIANS is worth significantly damaging the lives of millions of people and the country's economy over. I don't know about you, but I think this is INSANE and the madness must be stopped.
 
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