Coronavirus - CoVID-19 - Part 3 - Arizona is kinda open now

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TheLegend

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Aug 30, 2009
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Buzzing BoH
More traffic sucks but seeing so many people ALONE in their cars wearing masks continues to crack me up. I wonder if it was the news or the internet that told them that was a good idea. If there was a chart showing the common sense and intelligence of the average human being over time, we'd definitely be on a steep decline.

Heard a story on the radio yesterday about a guy getting pulled over for being alone in the carpool lane and he told the officer he was practicing social distancing and his passenger was in the vehicle right behind him.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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Horse shit and Horse shit again.
The health care system is no more corrupt than any other industry, probably less due to the very high level of regulation and oversight. If you don't like corruption, you have a chance to kick it out of the White House in November. I never thought I'd see a WH more corrupt than Clinton or Carter, but the Trump White House clearly takes the cake.
China has never, never been known to cut off its nose to spite its own face. The toll on their economy and population in terms of sickness and death is a price China would never pay just to cripple the West. China sold the WHO and president Trump, by the way (check out his January comments to the press which were so pro-president Xi.) a bill of goods and the WHO bought it until it was too late. Previous work by the WHO has been exemplary, particularly in the fight against polio, onchocerciasis, and ebola.
You don't know what you are talking about. Take your mask off. I think it is cutting off oxygen to your brain. Trump tells you how it is, not what you want to hear. Speaking of corruption, look no farther than the previous administration. WHO is corrupt to the core, as is China, and that is no horse shit, but if you think China is goody two shoes maybe you should move there.
 

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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Heard a story on the radio yesterday about a guy getting pulled over for being alone in the carpool lane and he told the officer he was practicing social distancing and his passenger was in the vehicle right behind him.
Post of the year.
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
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You don't know what you are talking about. Take your mask off. I think it is cutting off oxygen to your brain. Trump tells you how it is, not what you want to hear. Speaking of corruption, look no farther than the previous administration. WHO is corrupt to the core, as is China, and that is no horse shit, but if you think China is goody two shoes maybe you should move there.
This isn't a thread on whether Trump lied or not, but really my friend?The day he leaves office he will pardon his 3 kids, his VP, his Sec of State and Defense, and a slew of other crooks. He will even pardon himself, although I'm not sure if that would hold up constitutionally. I'm a Republican and because of Trump am a contributor to the Lincoln Group. The WHO has never been considered corrupt by anyone not called Trump or Trump acolyte. It's not part of the UN, which I agree, from UNESCO to UNRWA is very corrupt.

As to the ad hominem about the mask, and the charge that China is corrupt, bright shiny objects both of them. My mask protects others if I have the Coronavirus and don't know it. Who would be so selfish that they would not make the effort to wear a mask even if it offered just a chance to save another American from this disease? As for China, of course it's corrupt. My point is that the Chinese epidemic is not in any way in the Chinese national interest, given the toll in lives and their economy. Those of us not eager to shift blame for Trump's response to shiny objects are aware that China does not work against its own self interest.

And as to my moving to China, seriously, bro? Take a breath.
 

Sinurgy

Approaching infinity
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What? The so called experts have been twisting everything from day one. That's the problem. The experts panicked the public and still are. All these models and data they are talking about aren't worth the paper they are written on. You can't believe anything they say, nothing. The experts have cried wolf once to often. People should stop watching TV and start living their life like they were doing before COVID. That of course will be hard for the ones who lost their jobs or their businesses because of the experts.
You're confusing experts and the media, they're not the same.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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You're confusing experts and the media, they're not the same.
The expert twists things and then the media twists it even more. Keep on watching TV and keep believing what they tell ya. I'm sure you can find some so called expert on TV anytime during the day. Hell, even the experts can't agree with one another.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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This isn't a thread on whether Trump lied or not, but really my friend?The day he leaves office he will pardon his 3 kids, his VP, his Sec of State and Defense, and a slew of other crooks. He will even pardon himself, although I'm not sure if that would hold up constitutionally. I'm a Republican and because of Trump am a contributor to the Lincoln Group. The WHO has never been considered corrupt by anyone not called Trump or Trump acolyte. It's not part of the UN, which I agree, from UNESCO to UNRWA is very corrupt.

As to the ad hominem about the mask, and the charge that China is corrupt, bright shiny objects both of them. My mask protects others if I have the Coronavirus and don't know it. Who would be so selfish that they would not make the effort to wear a mask even if it offered just a chance to save another American from this disease? As for China, of course it's corrupt. My point is that the Chinese epidemic is not in any way in the Chinese national interest, given the toll in lives and their economy. Those of us not eager to shift blame for Trump's response to shiny objects are aware that China does not work against its own self interest.

And as to my moving to China, seriously, bro? Take a breath.
Do you really think the Chinese Gov't give a f--- about lives? Their economy was going downhill before COVID.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
29,978
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So which part of 15 cases going to 0 is what it is or what he wanted others to hear?

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person on earth.
Yup, why worry about COVID if even the experts keep on changing their minds? Not worried about COVID now, wasn't before, and I won't be in the future. If you call that ignorant that is your problem not mine.
 

Sinurgy

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The expert twists things and then the media twists it even more. Keep on watching TV and keep believing what they tell ya. I'm sure you can find some so called expert on TV anytime during the day. Hell, even the experts can't agree with one another.
I mean sure technically there are going to be some experts who are bad actors but I guarantee the vast majority are not. You're conflating figureheads, media entertainers (I refuse to call most of them journalists), etc. and other talking heads selling clicks and views with actual experts. As you said yourself I'm sure you can find some "so called expert" on TV anytime during the day and you absolutely can but like you said, those are so called experts. I guarantee you the vast majority epidemiologists, doctors, scientists and statisticians (aka as ACTUAL experts) are not twisting things or trying to get famous.

I get what you mean and it is frustrating that you feel like you can't trust hardly anything you read or watch anymore and I absolutely don't disagree there I just want to clarify the issue here is not experts, it's the charlatans, influencers, politicians, corporate businessmen, etc. that use them for their own selfish gains. Basically the experts are stuck dealing with the same bullshit we all are, shitty people in positions of power using it to push their shitty ulterior motives.
 
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_Del_

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Jul 4, 2003
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Coronavirus, l’Istituto Superiore di Sanità: “Solo 12 le persone decedute senza patologie pregresse”

From Italy, 3% of fatalities lacked underlying conditions. Average number of underlying conditions was 2.7

"This figure - the agency always specifies - was obtained on 355 files, compared to the total of 2,003 received: 17.7 percent of the overall sample. The average number of pathologies observed in this population is 2.7. Overall, 12 patients, accounting for 3.4 percent of the sample, had no pathology. There are 84 victims (23.7 percent) who had only one pathology; 90 had two pathologies (25.4 percent); and 169 (47.6 percent) were affected by three or more diseases."
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
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Do you really think the Chinese Gov't give a f--- about lives? Their economy was going downhill before COVID.
LOL yes of course they do. They are more risk averse than we are. Ask any pilot who has flown to a Chinese airport.
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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I mean sure technically there are going to be some experts who are bad actors but I guarantee the vast majority are not. You're conflating figureheads, media entertainers (I refuse to call most of them journalists), etc. and other talking heads selling clicks and views with actual experts. As you said yourself I'm sure you can find some "so called expert" on TV anytime during the day and you absolutely can but like you said, those are so called experts. I guarantee you the vast majority epidemiologists, doctors, scientists and statisticians (aka as ACTUAL experts) are not twisting things or trying to get famous.

I get what you mean and it is frustrating that you feel like you can't trust hardly anything you read or watch anymore and I absolutely don't disagree there I just want to clarify the issue here is not experts, it's the charlatans, influencers, politicians, corporate businessmen, etc. that use them for their own selfish gains. Basically the experts are stuck dealing with the same bullshit we all are, shitty people in positions of power using it to push their shitty ulterior motives.
Experts are biased and the media is biased. How can you tell what information is accurate? How can you make an informed decision? The bottom line is that in a free country, you get to decide how to react and what to believe or not believe, and you get to live with the consequences of your actions good or bad. The government has no right to shut down the country regardless of their good intentions. Individuals and business’s need to decide for themselves, up to you. No need to prove who is right or wrong, let it play out. People die every day for all kinds of reasons, it’s part of life, we need to mitigate it without government mandated interference, and at the same time accept it. Suggestions are ok, draconian rules are not.
 

_Del_

Registered User
Jul 4, 2003
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Direct download at link, don't click it unless you want a download:
https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0092-8674(20)30610-3

"CD4+ T cell responses were detected in 40-60% of unexposed individuals. This may be reflective of some degree of crossreactive, preexisting immunity to SARS- CoV-2 in some, but not all, individuals... "

"Whether this immunity is relevant in influencing clinical outcomes is unknown—and cannot be known without T cell measurements before and after SARS- CoV-2 infection of individuals—but it is tempting to speculate that the crossreactive CD4+ T cells may be of value in protective immunity"

These are samples taken before the new (novel) coronavirus strain. Which means there may be some benefit of helper T-cells recognizing the virus, even if it's new.
 

_Del_

Registered User
Jul 4, 2003
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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC: Best estimate for symptomatic cases-fatality: 0.4%

Best estimate of symptomatic case -hospitalization: 1.7%

Best estimate for numbers of asymptomatics: 35%

Best estimate for total/true IFR (using asymptomatic+symptomatic case): 0.26%

You'll have to math out the last one, because for some reason they don't include it...
 

Sinurgy

Approaching infinity
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Feb 8, 2004
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Experts are biased and the media is biased. How can you tell what information is accurate? How can you make an informed decision? The bottom line is that in a free country, you get to decide how to react and what to believe or not believe, and you get to live with the consequences of your actions good or bad. The government has no right to shut down the country regardless of their good intentions. Individuals and business’s need to decide for themselves, up to you. No need to prove who is right or wrong, let it play out. People die every day for all kinds of reasons, it’s part of life, we need to mitigate it without government mandated interference, and at the same time accept it. Suggestions are ok, draconian rules are not.
All I'll say is assign a bias percentage to the source and go from there. For example, for a trade rumor report I'd assign 90% to Bob McKenzie but 5% to Eklund. Is that perfect, no but it's a hell of a lot better than the 0% or 100% that seems to be the default around here.

As for your freedoms and the government, that's a different discussion and not within the context of my exchange with Jakey.
 

MIGs Dog

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Good news I suppose. When they say "after getting sick" do they mean after symptoms appear?

 

MIGs Dog

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Funny, but often true.

upload_2020-5-25_7-33-45.png
 
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Jakey53

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Experts are biased and the media is biased. How can you tell what information is accurate? How can you make an informed decision? The bottom line is that in a free country, you get to decide how to react and what to believe or not believe, and you get to live with the consequences of your actions good or bad. The government has no right to shut down the country regardless of their good intentions. Individuals and business’s need to decide for themselves, up to you. No need to prove who is right or wrong, let it play out. People die every day for all kinds of reasons, it’s part of life, we need to mitigate it without government mandated interference, and at the same time accept it. Suggestions are ok, draconian rules are not.
I agree. It's easy to sit back now and point fingers, but when you are dealing with the corrupt Chinese Government you have to expect the worse and Trump had to side with caution, he really had no choice. Looking at it now, I bet he will say he was wrong, but if the experts were right and he did not shut it down he would have been blamed for murder. Like President Reagan said, "the Government's job is to protect it's citizens, not to run their lives. Even today people don't understand this virus. Driving around in their cars with a mask on, walking with a mask on etc. Then you go Costco,you need a mask, Fry's you don't. You and I can make a list a mile long. This is exactly what the Chinese Gov't wanted and we bought it hook line and stinker.
 

Mosby

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Feb 16, 2012
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I agree. It's easy to sit back now and point fingers, but when you are dealing with the corrupt Chinese Government you have to expect the worse and Trump had to side with caution, he really had no choice. Looking at it now, I bet he will say he was wrong...

I bet he won't :laugh:
 
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