Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals

[pman25]

The vaccine production is improving however with some saying the supply shouldn't be an issue by spring. Like it could be open to everyone by April. At that point, it just becomes an issue of how many shots we can administer in a day. Johnson and Johnson getting their vaccine approved this month will be huge as well. And Pfizer and Moderna are able to speed up production as they get more efficient in their manufacturing. Of course lots of promises have been made and broken through this whole ordeal, but things are improving on the vaccine front.

 

[Eirikrautha]

In fact it seems to be getting more contagious through mutations, which is the #1 reason this is NOT just a personal choice where people can "choose where they stand". The more people allow infections to spread the more they mutate, and the worse it is for everyone.

Wrong. As viruses mutate they usually A) become more infectious and B) become less lethal. This is basic biology/virology. It's one of the reasons the swine flu is hardly even mentioned any more, as herd immunity, vaccinations, and mutations all took their toll on the lethality of that virus. In fact, there are very few cases of viruses becoming more lethal overall after time has passed, and many cases of the opposite. This isn't a science fiction novel; time (and mutations) tends to be on our side.

 

[g00n]

Wrong. As viruses mutate they usually A) become more infectious and B) become less lethal. This is basic biology/virology. It's one of the reasons the swine flu is hardly even mentioned any more, as herd immunity, vaccinations, and mutations all took their toll on the lethality of that virus. In fact, there are very few cases of viruses becoming more lethal overall after time has passed, and many cases of the opposite. This isn't a science fiction novel; time (and mutations) tends to be on our side.

There you go inserting your own narrative again. I never said anything about increased lethality. We don't know for sure what the future lethality will be BUT even if it declines or stays the same we already see higher levels of transmission in variants (that may present issues for some vaccines). That means "normal" for many is delayed or made more difficult.

And even if we don't have significant mutations then it's likely we will lose immunity over X period of time, which means regular vaccinations will be necessary, mostly because people insist on "natural herd immunity" rather than taking measures to try and effectively wipe out the disease (such as efforts with polio and measles).

Guess what happened when anti-vaxxers refused to take vaccines against measles & mumps? That's right, outbreaks. Including in the NHL. And if anyone lapses in their COVID vaccinations over the coming years the results could be dire, IF people keep acting stupidly based on overconfidence in the natural process.

 

[Eirikrautha]

There you go inserting your own narrative again. I never said anything about increased lethality. We don't know for sure what the future lethality will be BUT even if it declines or stays the same we already see higher levels of transmission in variants (that may present issues for some vaccines). That means "normal" for many is delayed or made more difficult.

And even if we don't have significant mutations then it's likely we will lose immunity over X period of time, which means regular vaccinations will be necessary, mostly because people insist on "natural herd immunity" rather than taking measures to try and effectively wipe out the disease (such as efforts with polio and measles).

Guess what happened when anti-vaxxers refused to take vaccines against measles & mumps? That's right, outbreaks. Including in the NHL. And if anyone lapses in their COVID vaccinations over the coming years the results could be dire, IF people keep acting stupidly based on overconfidence in the natural process.

You don't understand how any of this works, do you?

You do recognize that ALL of the COVID vaccines available do not prevent you from getting or transmitting COVID, right? We got the boilerplate from both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines (even though they're only giving us one and not the other) at work, and both clearly state that. What they do is lessen the severity of the illness that an individual gets and lessens the chance they will need medical care. So, even if everyone is vaccinated, the virus will still exist, still spread, and still mutate. The only difference will be in the severity of your symptoms and the potential that the spread could slow due to shorter infection-times. But we're not going to "wipe out" COVID, any more than we "wiped out" H1N1. We can lessen the impact of the virus until herd immunity and mutations render it just a normal background virus (like the swine flu is today). Everyone will eventually get this virus. That is unavoidable. The only thing we can do is reduce the threat of the virus (via vaccines) until it fades to the background.

The NHL has real doctors (not internet "experts") who know this. They are weighing risks versus costs and advising them accordingly. They know the risks to the players and the best mitigation (not the fictional "prevention" that people on the internet who don't know what they are talking about seem to think is possible) strategies, and that's the advice they are giving. They can afford the best medical care and advice possible. I've seen no indication otherwise.

 

[g00n]

You don't understand how any of this works, do you?

You do recognize that ALL of the COVID vaccines available do not prevent you from getting or transmitting COVID, right? We got the boilerplate from both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines (even though they're only giving us one and not the other) at work, and both clearly state that. What they do is lessen the severity of the illness that an individual gets and lessens the chance they will need medical care. So, even if everyone is vaccinated, the virus will still exist, still spread, and still mutate. The only difference will be in the severity of your symptoms and the potential that the spread could slow due to shorter infection-times. But we're not going to "wipe out" COVID, any more than we "wiped out" H1N1. We can lessen the impact of the virus until herd immunity and mutations render it just a normal background virus (like the swine flu is today). Everyone will eventually get this virus. That is unavoidable. The only thing we can do is reduce the threat of the virus (via vaccines) until it fades to the background.

The NHL has real doctors (not internet "experts") who know this. They are weighing risks versus costs and advising them accordingly. They know the risks to the players and the best mitigation (not the fictional "prevention" that people on the internet who don't know what they are talking about seem to think is possible) strategies, and that's the advice they are giving. They can afford the best medical care and advice possible. I've seen no indication otherwise.

You're knocking down strawmen again.

I think I understand far better than you if you believe a virus weakened by vaccination is more easily spread, and there's no difference between a fully vaccinated society and one that just lets viruses run their course. Do you really believe that?

This is why I said "effectively try" to wipe out similar to polio and measles. They are not gone but they're managed effectively with vaccines that are not allowed to lapse. The effort is the necessary measure to reduce the threat to next to nothing. Of course those diseases resurge when the vaccinations slip. I even noted this in relation to the NHL.

Your last paragraph is just an appeal to authority fallacy so not worth refuting.

 

[g00n]

Here ya go, Dr. E

Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine reducing viral load, data from Israel suggests

 

[Ridley Simon]

Some people behaving badly is not an excuse for everyone to behave badly.

If not for most people doing what they're supposed to do, and thanks to vaccine rollouts, this all could be MUCH worse.

We also don't know what happens to those people we see on video, either afterward or before (have they already recovered? Do they get sick later, maybe die or have long-term effects?)

There is a wave of "lockdown fatigue" that started in f***ing APRIL for some people, but the virus doesn't get any nicer.

In fact it seems to be getting more contagious through mutations, which is the #1 reason this is NOT just a personal choice where people can "choose where they stand". The more people allow infections to spread the more they mutate, and the worse it is for everyone. Then the vaccines may not work, and people isolate or practice caution end up doing so for naught while others simply become plague rats who selfishly do as they please. And that never changes.

So yeah, I have a BIG problem with people trying to turn this into yet another "reopen" propaganda campaign started by oligarchs pushing top-down concerns onto frontline employees just for the sake of company bottom line and personal profits.

Ahh, yikes. Oligarchs? Personal profits? You are seemingly on a ledge that came out of nowhere. So....

I’m going to leave this alone brother. You are very passionate about it, and I respect that. So passionate, that you don’t seem to be hearing me.

Which is cool, I’m not going to fight about it (as this it seemingly turning into more than a discussion). That’s just how I feel. Hope you can respect that.

 

[g00n]

More on the relationship between vaccination and viral load as it relates to transmission:

Decreased SARS-CoV-2 viral load following vaccination

COVID-19 vaccination associated with 3- to 5-fold reduction in viral load

Transmissibility of COVID-19 depends on the viral load around onset in adult and symptomatic patients

Transmissibility depends on viral load, and viral load is reduced by vaccination.

THAT is why we need widespread vaccination and not bullshit petry dish, plague rat scurrying toward the moving target of "natural herd immunity".

 

[g00n]

So if you believe all that already then you're just setting up camp on a cherrypicked phrase that's missing context, bud, and wasting our time.

edit: back to the original point....relaxing standards as a matter of "personal choice" or whatever is fool's gold. If something is resulting in more cases then it's working against us all, and the people making those choices are f***ing it up for the rest of us, again, by providing a more robust environment for viral spread and mutation (which may affect vaccine effectiveness, and cause us all to increase our personal vigilance and risk while others ignore such things). It's not strictly personal or isolated.

 

[Ridley Simon]

More on the relationship between vaccination and viral load as it relates to transmission:

Decreased SARS-CoV-2 viral load following vaccination

COVID-19 vaccination associated with 3- to 5-fold reduction in viral load

Transmissibility of COVID-19 depends on the viral load around onset in adult and symptomatic patients

Transmissibility depends on viral load, and viral load is reduced by vaccination.

THAT is why we need widespread vaccination and not bullshit petry dish, plague rat scurrying toward the moving target of "natural herd immunity".

Do you have children?

I don’t mean that as an attack.

But mandating vaccines that we have zero understanding of, isn’t going to work for me.

I will take it. If only that it protects my kids. I’m 51 so if these vaccines shorten my life as an adverse side affect because we dont yet understand it all, then ok.

But I’m not having my little ones take it. At least, not anytime soon. And that means years probably. I don’t give a f*** what anyone expects me to do.

 

[alphabetical]

Do you have children?

I don’t mean that as an attack.

But mandating vaccines that we have zero understanding of, isn’t going to work for me.

I will take it. If only that it protects my kids. I’m 51 so if these vaccines shorten my life as an adverse side affect because we dont yet understand it all, then ok.

But I’m not having my little ones take it. At least, not anytime soon. And that means years probably. I don’t give a f*** what anyone expects me to do.

Why do you think that the vaccine may shorten your life?

 

[Ridley Simon]

Why do you think that the vaccine may shorten your life?

I don’t know that it will. But we also don’t know that it won’t. History is littered with things that people thought were good for you at one point in time, and turned out they weren’t. Only way to know that is time to watch what happens.

We haven’t had time yet. At all. We are putting something artificial into our bodies that never was intended to be there. I’m mostly sure it’s safe. But when it comes to my kids, “mostly sure” isn’t good enough. Not even close.

all medicines have side effects. Some you understand quickly, while others can take years to show themselves.

hope that makes sense

 

[g00n]

Do you have children?

I don’t mean that as an attack.

But mandating vaccines that we have zero understanding of, isn’t going to work for me.

I will take it. If only that it protects my kids. I’m 51 so if these vaccines shorten my life as an adverse side affect because we dont yet understand it all, then ok.

But I’m not having my little ones take it. At least, not anytime soon. And that means years probably. I don’t give a f*** what anyone expects me to do.

Yes I have a toddler and I'm about the same age as you. That's the very reason this needs to be taken care of. I only care about myself as far as I can support my kid.

I'm not afraid of vaccines because 99.99999% of the complaints about them are anti-vax bullshit, or outlier stories among millions that are blown out of proportion by the internet or anti-vaxxers. Common sense applies.

COVID-19 and Your Health

Unless one lives on a remote farm, foregoes all modern medicine, refuses to buy all modern products (formaldehydes), and eats only their own compost-fertilized crops and free range grass fed livestock they can't complain about a vaccine being "artificial", or about "chemicals" as many say. That's a common boogeyman.

So back to the point: unless someone has a serious medical reason for exemption every ADULT should be required to be vaccinated if they want to participate in greater society. We're not talking about vaccinating kids yet. I don't think that's even in the phase plans, and it's yet another reason we adults need to act like adults and do the right thing.

 

[g00n]

Ahh, yikes. Oligarchs? Personal profits? You are seemingly on a ledge that came out of nowhere. So....

I’m going to leave this alone brother. You are very passionate about it, and I respect that. So passionate, that you don’t seem to be hearing me.

Which is cool, I’m not going to fight about it (as this it seemingly turning into more than a discussion). That’s just how I feel. Hope you can respect that.

Ok no big deal. Was not coming at you personally just responding to your post in a general sense for all who have been saying similar things.

 

[TcTap]

More on the relationship between vaccination and viral load as it relates to transmission:

Decreased SARS-CoV-2 viral load following vaccination

COVID-19 vaccination associated with 3- to 5-fold reduction in viral load

Transmissibility of COVID-19 depends on the viral load around onset in adult and symptomatic patients

Transmissibility depends on viral load, and viral load is reduced by vaccination.

THAT is why we need widespread vaccination and not bullshit petry dish, plague rat scurrying toward the moving target of "natural herd immunity".

This is correct. While vaccines do not 100% prevent you from getting symptomatic covid infection, they "train" your immunity so even if you catch it, it will be mostly asymptomatic, which means less transmissible or in some cases symptomatic but with mild / less severe symptoms. To add, I really dont think these vacciness have any effect on lifespan, if any they prolong it.

On the other way, do we know when will Washington play again? And why are they even in protocol?

 

[tenken00]

This is correct. While vaccines do not 100% prevent you from getting symptomatic covid infection, they "train" your immunity so even if you catch it, it will be mostly asymptomatic, which means less transmissible or in some cases symptomatic but with mild / less severe symptoms. To add, I really dont think these vacciness have any effect on lifespan, if any they prolong it.

On the other way, do we know when will Washington play again? And why are they even in protocol?

Next game is against Pittsburgh on Sunday, Valentine's Day. Washington players aren't in protocol currently, but their opponents have been (Philadelphia, Buffalo).

 

[notDkristich]

How did the other teams get their games postponed, but the Caps had to keep playing with multiple players on the list?

 

[Ridley Simon]

Yes I have a toddler and I'm about the same age as you. That's the very reason this needs to be taken care of. I only care about myself as far as I can support my kid.

I'm not afraid of vaccines because 99.99999% of the complaints about them are anti-vax bullshit, or outlier stories among millions that are blown out of proportion by the internet or anti-vaxxers. Common sense applies.

COVID-19 and Your Health

Unless one lives on a remote farm, foregoes all modern medicine, refuses to buy all modern products (formaldehydes), and eats only their own compost-fertilized crops and free range grass fed livestock they can't complain about a vaccine being "artificial", or about "chemicals" as many say. That's a common boogeyman.

So back to the point: unless someone has a serious medical reason for exemption every ADULT should be required to be vaccinated if they want to participate in greater society. We're not talking about vaccinating kids yet. I don't think that's even in the phase plans, and it's yet another reason we adults need to act like adults and do the right thing.

I think adults should as well. I’m not sure what constitutes an adult, but I don’t think it’s right to dismiss people’s fears over this vaccine.

from all I’ve gathered, it is one of the first vaccines that goes about it using Proteins being introduced to your body (perhaps it’s not the first, but it’s certainly one of them) versus the normal way of actually injecting the disease into your system. As much as people want to claim it’s harmless etc etc etc, we just don’t know that yet. Stating otherwise is hopeful and certainly where the odds lay, but it isn’t proven over years of experience. It’s just not. (And FYI — I have zero concern over the politicizing of this, I think that is complete bunk and extremely detrimental to the situation at hand. It’s a legit vaccine and I don’t think corners were cut so that it could be here for the elections).

as I stated, I will take it. But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss concerns over it and to mandate people take it. Free will and all.

 

[HTFN]

I think adults should as well. I’m not sure what constitutes an adult, but I don’t think it’s right to dismiss people’s fears over this vaccine.

from all I’ve gathered, it is one of the first vaccines that goes about it using Proteins being introduced to your body (perhaps it’s not the first, but it’s certainly one of them) versus the normal way of actually injecting the disease into your system. As much as people want to claim it’s harmless etc etc etc, we just don’t know that yet. Stating otherwise is hopeful and certainly where the odds lay, but it isn’t proven over years of experience. It’s just not. (And FYI — I have zero concern over the politicizing of this, I think that is complete bunk and extremely detrimental to the situation at hand. It’s a legit vaccine and I don’t think corners were cut so that it could be here for the elections).

as I stated, I will take it. But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss concerns over it and to mandate people take it. Free will and all.

Yeah, the precedent set by a government demanding mandatory injections (even with the very best of intentions) is not my favorite.

 

[g00n]

I think adults should as well. I’m not sure what constitutes an adult, but I don’t think it’s right to dismiss people’s fears over this vaccine.

from all I’ve gathered, it is one of the first vaccines that goes about it using Proteins being introduced to your body (perhaps it’s not the first, but it’s certainly one of them) versus the normal way of actually injecting the disease into your system. As much as people want to claim it’s harmless etc etc etc, we just don’t know that yet. Stating otherwise is hopeful and certainly where the odds lay, but it isn’t proven over years of experience. It’s just not. (And FYI — I have zero concern over the politicizing of this, I think that is complete bunk and extremely detrimental to the situation at hand. It’s a legit vaccine and I don’t think corners were cut so that it could be here for the elections).

as I stated, I will take it. But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss concerns over it and to mandate people take it. Free will and all.

One problem is many people will never consider vaccines safe. What is the criteria for this vaccine being safe?

I wonder if everyone expressing concern has done real research regarding the clinical trials for every drug they've ever taken in their lives. Or if they're just beginning to care about THIS particular vaccine.

 

[Ridley Simon]

One problem is many people will never consider vaccines safe. What is the criteria for this vaccine being safe?

I wonder if everyone expressing concern has done real research regarding the clinical trials for every drug they've ever taken in their lives. Or if they're just beginning to care about THIS particular vaccine.

It’s a good question. We’ve vaccinated all 3 of our kids for pretty much everything (and we’ve been vaccinated for mostly everything as well).

my wife and I want to see how things roll a little bit. We’ve done the hermit thing all along—

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It’s safer to not vaccinate them so they can potentially get it? Hard pass.

My kid is getting vaccinated just like her parents, whenever she can get one approved for kids her age...

If you don’t believe COVID is dangerous for your child, roll the dice. I won’t judge, to each their own.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Me and my entire family spent January in isolation with COVID. My wife got it first the me and my youngest daughter then my oldest daughter got it. My wife and I had symptoms comparable to a head cold and my kids had runny noses. From my experience COVID doesn’t impact kids to much. And from what I’ve read my experience is typical. Just FYI.

And I will get the vaccine when it’s my turn. My kids don’t need it. Also, HS buddy of mine is an ER nurse and he won’t get the vaccine, FWIW.

 

[Ridley Simon]

[mod]

All we’ve done as parents is try to protect our children. Each and every day, since they were born. To the point of our own sanity, as we have seen no one, traveled nowhere, and basically lived like hermits. My kids are zoom schooled, we don’t do any kids activities, we don’t do play dates (used to do a TON of them). We’ve done it for a year, and can do it as long as it takes.

[mod]

To rush off and inject something into my children that has so little history and has no real safety baseline, is as reckless as taking them to a crowded party of maskless people. We aren’t doing either, until more data and documentation is out to help quell any fears of possible long term side effects that NO ONE can predict to 100%. Who the hell knows? No one does, and anyone claiming they know for sure is a liar.

In the end it will be leap of faith. As my kids can’t make this decision for themselves. And we aren’t ready for that leap. I’d rather continue to live like a hermit/pariah/loner.

[mod]

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

[mod]

All we’ve done as parents is try to protect our children. To the point of our own sanity, as we have seen no one, traveled nowhere, and basically lived. My kids are school from home, we don’t do any kids activities, we don’t do play dates (used to do a TON of them). We’ve done it for a year, and can do it as long as it takes.

[mod]

but to rush off and inject something into my children that has so little history and has no real safety baseline, is as reckless as taking them to a crowded party of maskless people. We aren’t doing either, until more data and documentation is out to help quell any fears of possible long term side effects that NO ONE can predict to 100%. Who the hell knows? No one does, and anyone claiming they know for sure is a liar.

in the end it will be leap of faith. As my kids can’t make this decision for themselves. And we aren’t ready for that leap. I’d rather continue to live like a hermit/pariah/loner.

[mod]

Last I heard the vaccine isn’t approved for kids 16 and under because it hasn’t been tested on kids 16 and under. And as I said above, my kids are 13 and 11, their symptoms were a runny nose. That’s it. And my kids are up to date on all their regular shots. So I’m not an antivaxxer. From my erxperice kids 16 and under don’t need it.

Anyway, FWIW, I think you are handling the situation very well. Don’t sweat what others say. Keep up the good work.