Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals

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Calicaps

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Aug 3, 2006
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totally fair stance IMO....

I think the majority of arena staff would rather be back working honestly....
I mean, unless they have an immune disorder or a kid with CP or an elderly parent with heart disease... those folks may appreciate having the option to get public assistance rather than put that family member's life at risk to keep working.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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Yeah, Kuzy maybe isn't the best example. LOL

I am just saying I think putting people at risk from this virus is callous AF, good business or not and that the health of those who have less choice (support staff, family members, etc.) should be the top priority. Just my opinion.

in general I agree..

But people are willingly doing that every day on their own. Unless I’m home isolated with my family and we’re all isolated, we’re all rolling those dice daily to some degree.

these are at will jobs....they’re not forced to work. The large majority need to work and unfortunately some will get sick because of it. I don’t see a win either way...
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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I mean, unless they have an immune disorder or a kid with CP or an elderly parent with heart disease... those folks may appreciate having the option to get public assistance rather than put that family member's life at risk to keep working.

and that’s why I said majority....you can’t plan a system around the needs of the few can you?

you want free public assistance if you have to walk away from work for family/health reasons. Seems fair maybe in an extreme case like a pandemic, but the potential for abuse seems high.
 

Calicaps

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in general I agree..

But people are willingly doing that every day on their own. Unless I’m home isolated with my family and we’re all isolated, we’re all rolling those dice daily to some degree.

these are at will jobs....they’re not forced to work. The large majority need to work and unfortunately some will get sick because of it. I don’t see a win either way...

and that’s why I said majority....you can’t plan a system around the needs of the few can you?

you want free public assistance if you have to walk away from work for family/health reasons. Seems fair maybe in an extreme case like a pandemic, but the potential for abuse seems high.
But how few is it really? How many people have complicating risk factors or elderly parents at home. And anyway that's just the point, this is an extreme case. Had we taken equally extreme measures, tens of thousands of people would still be alive and thousands more would not be dealing with long-term disability. At-will is one thing... life or death is something else. This sort of "oh well" attitude (not necessarily from you) floors me.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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But how few is it really? How many people have complicating risk factors or elderly parents at home. And anyway that's just the point, this is an extreme case. Had we taken equally extreme measures, tens of thousands of people would still be alive and thousands more would not be dealing with long-term disability. At-will is one thing... life or death is something else. This sort of "oh well" attitude (not necessarily from you) floors me.

it’s certainly fewer than the majority. Unfortunately way too many people are willing to risk their own and the lives of their loved ones like the elderly. We have two sets of elderly parents (that rely on us) and we have largely quarantined this entire time, yet we see friends flying on planes and taking trips, taking kids to team sports, etc.....everyone has a different tolerance....sadly probably too high.

back to hockey though...I can’t blame the NHL for trying any more than other businesses to get through this.
 
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g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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It's not that they're trying to stay afloat or get through this. Major sports leagues like this are totally different than other businesses.

The issue I have with this season is the half-assing. Either go to a local bubble system, such as what worked for the playoffs, or cancel the season as it becomes clear the current system is not working.

With the NHL claiming they're losing billions of dollars even playing as they are now, this likely isn't about keeping things afloat. There are massive losses no matter what. So it's about getting the season done simply to fulfill the media deal.

And peoples' lives are going to be affected negatively because of that, some probably irreparably. People are being fined and put through all sorts of contortions when maybe it's not necessary.

Health>>>>>job.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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It’s clear the bubble had a dramatic negative impact on some....so health indeed.


I don’t believe that was ever a real option for the players, just like other sports.
 

TheLegendOfPatPeake

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It's not that they're trying to stay afloat or get through this. Major sports leagues like this are totally different than other businesses.

The issue I have with this season is the half-assing. Either go to a local bubble system, such as what worked for the playoffs, or cancel the season as it becomes clear the current system is not working.

With the NHL claiming they're losing billions of dollars even playing as they are now, this likely isn't about keeping things afloat. There are massive losses no matter what. So it's about getting the season done simply to fulfill the media deal.

And peoples' lives are going to be affected negatively because of that, some probably irreparably. People are being fined and put through all sorts of contortions when maybe it's not necessary.

Health>>>>>job.
Agreed. Health is wealth.
 

TheLegendOfPatPeake

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But how few is it really? How many people have complicating risk factors or elderly parents at home. And anyway that's just the point, this is an extreme case. Had we taken equally extreme measures, tens of thousands of people would still be alive and thousands more would not be dealing with long-term disability. At-will is one thing... life or death is something else. This sort of "oh well" attitude (not necessarily from you) floors me.
Agreed on this all. My two cents is we have a mentality of everyone is on their own and a huge group of people don’t give a ah*t about anyone else and can’t possibly be inconvenienced. It’s sad times for sure.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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Explain pls

ive only seen reports of players opting out or complaining of the bubble. Have we seen NHL, NBA, MLB players clamoring FOR bubbles? If so I haven’t seen it.

hell our own guys can’t even keep it together among themselves lol....
 

Corby78

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so because he plays a physical sport any risk is acceptable?
The physical sport is a bigger risk but we aren’t calling for the sport to be stopped.

the COVID risk is no higher than anyone else in their demographic, in fact playing in the NHL with testing and distancing rules makes it safer.
 

Corby78

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As I said, without a job they are eligible for assistance, which comes without the risk of a deadly virus. They don't have that option now.

And for the record, this is not me hypothesizing. My husband hasn't worked in nearly a year because of the pandemic (not by choice) and the expanded unemployment has kept us afloat while letting him stay safe at home.

if we all stay home and take unemployment because it’s safer.... where does the unemployment come from??
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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ive only seen reports of players opting out or complaining of the bubble. Have we seen NHL, NBA, MLB players clamoring FOR bubbles? If so I haven’t seen it.

hell our own guys can’t even keep it together among themselves lol....

Inconvenience vs death and disease. Many people make the wrong call.
 

Ridley Simon

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Feb 27, 2002
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As I said, without a job they are eligible for assistance, which comes without the risk of a deadly virus. They don't have that option now.

And for the record, this is not me hypothesizing. My husband hasn't worked in nearly a year because of the pandemic (not by choice) and the expanded unemployment has kept us afloat while letting him stay safe at home.
I understand. If they quit they can pretty much still get unemployment. Least, that’s been my experience.

Furloughed — no clue what happens there.
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
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why are people having mental health issues. We can all stay home from work and let rich people take care of us. The government will tax the rich and if they run out of money they can stay home too.

Sign me up!
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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Yep they do....but also mental health isn’t an inconvenience...

Mental health due to taking reasonable pandemic precautions is also a much more manageable situation compared to a deadly virus in a pandemic.

Would you rather meditate and go for walks around your yard/street and maybe talk to a counselor, or have COVID and maybe kill (or cause long-term disability to) a friend or relative because of it?

These are NHL players and rich owners. They're not out-of-work service personnel or small business owners struggling to have SOME kind of income. If we're talking support staff then keep trying to convince me this season is about employing some zamboni drivers out of altruistic concern rather than burning a year on that TV deal.
 

HecticGlow

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Mar 14, 2016
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At the end of the day if the league didn't play, the players wouldn't get paid. If they were, there quickly wouldn't be a league to come back to. All but one player voluntarily opted to return to the league instead of sitting it out. One can't imagine sitting it out would have done much for their physical conditioning, competitive edge and development, whether it was just them or the whole league. It's not like those players who aren't currently playing in the NHL are all sitting at home – look at how many opted back into European leagues where things aren't any safer.

The truth is that most of the staff who aren't playing, coaching, officiating or doing medical/equipment work should be okay – with proper PPE and social distancing, it's not as though they're coming into contact with members of the public, or that too many of those jobs require intimate working with others. The risk is to the players and coaches, who are naturally in close contact with each other without means for social distancing or PPE during games.

I sincerely doubt many of those players would have been okay spending six months in a bubble, completely isolated from their friends and families. Even if their close relatives were in the bubble (even leaving aside the expense), I can't imagine many of them being comfortable living in the bubble for six months.

The Return to Play measures aren't designed to prevent anyone getting COVID – that's not possible – but to limit it as best as they can. Which is the same thing any other workplace is doing. While I'm in favour of lockdowns and restrictions designed to reduce risk of transmission within the community to the extent we can, we also have to recognise and remember that for many the inability to work or earn a decent salary can cause huge emotional, psychological and health issues in its own right. And, with far less importance attached, having things like sports and entertainment removed won't help either.

Given there is some uncertainty growing about whether the vaccines are effective against some of the newer strains of COVID-19, and the likelihood more and more will emerge over time and society will be reacting to them, not preempting them, it isn't even a certainty that things will be safely back to normal by 2022. If you hold hockey out until things are 'normal', we could be without a league for years to come.
 

Caps8112

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Aug 12, 2008
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agree with the above mostly. The NHL cannot afford to not have a season. The league will not survive, whether that is important or not is a different question. There are so many unknowns to everything right now that saying whichever way forward you believe is the best is the only way is silly.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
30,433
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At the end of the day if the league didn't play, the players wouldn't get paid. If they were, there quickly wouldn't be a league to come back to. All but one player voluntarily opted to return to the league instead of sitting it out. One can't imagine sitting it out would have done much for their physical conditioning, competitive edge and development, whether it was just them or the whole league. It's not like those players who aren't currently playing in the NHL are all sitting at home – look at how many opted back into European leagues where things aren't any safer.

The truth is that most of the staff who aren't playing, coaching, officiating or doing medical/equipment work should be okay – with proper PPE and social distancing, it's not as though they're coming into contact with members of the public, or that too many of those jobs require intimate working with others. The risk is to the players and coaches, who are naturally in close contact with each other without means for social distancing or PPE during games.

I sincerely doubt many of those players would have been okay spending six months in a bubble, completely isolated from their friends and families. Even if their close relatives were in the bubble (even leaving aside the expense), I can't imagine many of them being comfortable living in the bubble for six months.

The Return to Play measures aren't designed to prevent anyone getting COVID – that's not possible – but to limit it as best as they can. Which is the same thing any other workplace is doing. While I'm in favour of lockdowns and restrictions designed to reduce risk of transmission within the community to the extent we can, we also have to recognise and remember that for many the inability to work or earn a decent salary can cause huge emotional, psychological and health issues in its own right. And, with far less importance attached, having things like sports and entertainment removed won't help either.

Given there is some uncertainty growing about whether the vaccines are effective against some of the newer strains of COVID-19, and the likelihood more and more will emerge over time and society will be reacting to them, not preempting them, it isn't even a certainty that things will be safely back to normal by 2022. If you hold hockey out until things are 'normal', we could be without a league for years to come.

Are they "limiting it the best they can" right now? I don't think so. How many positive tests now compared to the bubble?

If they don't want to work in bubbles like many of us are forced to then that's on them. They can't complain when things go sideways.
 
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