Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals Part 2

[Calicaps]

The entire context the whole time has been when they release it approved for kids, which was recently announced as a Sept target I saw in an article.

Sorry to be dense, context of what?

 

[Ridley Simon]

Rids, kids can't get the shots anyway. It's not tested or approved for children. So I think part of the reaction you're encountering is that making any declarations about what do or don't trust before the science is even complete strikes people as baseless and potentially dangerous from a word-of-mouth standpoint. Not trying to give you a hard time here, just my perspective on the discussion.

I wrote a very long response, that the site blew out due to refreshing itself. UGH.

I will be succinct:

if you have kids, I respect you choosing your own path. I have my reasons, you have yours. I will leave it at that.

if you don’t have kids, then you need to stay out of this discussion, as you simply don’t understand the responsibility and thought process that overcomes you, once you have children. I’m a walking example of it. No kids for 44 yrs, and now 3 at 51. I didn’t understand the “having children” mindset. Now I do. It’s simply not the same.

and I being defensive? Hell yes I am. I’m defending my children. I don’t care what others do with theirs, but is sure as hell seems a lot of others care what I do w mine.

this entire discussion stemmed from me stating that I would never allow someone to mandate that my kids need to take the COVID vaccine. That’s the genesis.

If we want to discuss what adults should be doing, then that’s a whole other thing, and I agree we all should. If you don’t, then ok, but you sure as hell should uphold the guidelines around being safe. Just as I sure as hell should for my kids if they don’t. And all that comes w it.

sadly many don’t uphold the guidelines for being safe even now, and I KNOW they haven’t had the vaccine. And that upsets me. A lot. But this was never a discussion around any of that.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Sorry to be dense, context of what?

this entire meandering long-winded discussion lol?


Part of the premise of this all was a link to an article about a kids vaccine ready by Sept....

 

[Calicaps]

I wrote a very long response, that the site blew out due to refreshing itself. UGH.

I will be succinct:

if you have kids, I respect you choosing your own path. I have my reasons, you have yours. I will leave it at that.

if you don’t have kids, then you need to stay out of this discussion, as you simply don’t understand the responsibility and thought process that overcomes you, once you have children. I’m a walking example of it. No kids for 44 yrs, and now 3 at 51. I didn’t understand the “having children” mindset. Now I do. It’s simply not the same.

and I being defensive? Hell yes I am. I’m defending my children. I don’t care what others do with theirs, but is sure as hell seems a lot of others care what I do w mine.

Well I don't have kids and what that gives me is an objective view of this discussion, which is all I was commenting on. You say you're defending your kids, and folks are asking "from what, exactly?"

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I see we can’t have a non-angry intelligent conversation at this point, so I’ll check back when Rids has calmed down...

 

[Ridley Simon]

Well I don't have kids and what that gives me is an objective view of this discussion, which is all I was commenting on. You say you're defending your kids, and folks are asking "from what, exactly?"

I didnt know whether you had kids or not.

No disrespect, but I don’t think it gives you an objective view. I just don’t. The fear that comes from something happening to your child, and having to bury them before you, is something you can’t really understand unless you have one. I witnessed it with my parents when my younger brother passed. It’s a pain and anguish that is not comparable to any else. Ask any parent that’s lost a child.

so what am I afraid of? Pretty easy — knowingly walking them into something that I cannot guarantee won’t hurt them. At least certainly enough of a guarantee. What is a level of guarantee? That’s up to each person. But it’s a sure of hell a lot higher than it is for me, for my wife, and for my parents.

if people can’t agree or understand that, no problem.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I see we can’t have a non-angry intelligent conversation at this point, so I’ll check back when Rids has calmed down...

That’s so useless. Thanks CCR

you want to hang on to “science”. We do not have any concrete science on this. It’s new frontier.

you don’t seem to want to focus on that at all.

to each their own.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I read this thread quickly so I might be missing context but why does Rids need a concrete reason to not want to inject his kids? None of us know if his kids have any medical conditions or if they’ve had a reaction to a vaccine or shot before so I don’t get the “tell me exactly why and how long” conversation when there haven’t even been any trials for kids yet. He doesn’t sound like he’s an anti-vaxxer, just that he doesn’t want his kids to be the guinea pig. Seems reasonable enough to me but maybe I’ve missed something along the way.

Also I have two with a third on the way and there’s no way I’m injecting them with anything without making sure I’ve read all the research there is and talked to as many doctors as I can. And there’s no objectivity when it comes to your kids.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I read this thread quickly so I might be missing context but why does Rids need a concrete reason to not want to inject his kids? None of us know if his kids have any medical conditions or if they’ve had a reaction to a vaccine or shot before so I don’t get the “tell me exactly why and how long” conversation when there haven’t even been any trials for kids yet. He doesn’t sound like he’s an anti-vaxxer, just that he doesn’t want his kids to be the guinea pig. Seems reasonable enough to me but maybe I’ve missed something along the way.

You haven’t missed anything. That’s exactly it.

 

[g00n]

I didnt know whether you had kids or not.

No disrespect, but I don’t think it gives you an objective view. I just don’t. The fear that comes from something happening to your child, and having to bury them before you, is something you can’t really understand unless you have one. I witnessed it with my parents when my younger brother passed. It’s a pain and anguish that is not comparable to any else. Ask any parent that’s lost a child.

so what am I afraid of? Pretty easy — knowingly walking them into something that I cannot guarantee won’t hurt them. At least certainly enough of a guarantee. What is a level of guarantee? That’s up to each person. But it’s a sure of hell a lot higher than it is for me, for my wife, and for my parents.

if people can’t agree or understand that, no problem.

Then why talk about "we don't know the long-term effects"? Why not just "we don't know the effects on kids yet", which is not in dispute by anyone, and has yet to be studied?

I think that's the hang up here.

 

[g00n]

I read this thread quickly so I might be missing context but why does Rids need a concrete reason to not want to inject his kids? None of us know if his kids have any medical conditions or if they’ve had a reaction to a vaccine or shot before so I don’t get the “tell me exactly why and how long” conversation when there haven’t even been any trials for kids yet. He doesn’t sound like he’s an anti-vaxxer, just that he doesn’t want his kids to be the guinea pig. Seems reasonable enough to me but maybe I’ve missed something along the way.

Also I have two with a third on the way and there’s no way I’m injecting them with anything without making sure I’ve read all the research there is and talked to as many doctors as I can. And there’s no objectivity when it comes to your kids.

Because nobody I saw in this thread was telling him he had to vaccinate his kids without adequate testing the vaccine on kids. He says others were saying that but I've not seen the posts.

So when some arguments about "long term effects" and "new tech" and "rushed to approval" start coming out in the discussion, which have nothing to do with giving it to kids right now, it seems like it's coming from the usual antivax FUD circles, even if he's not antivax.

That's what I'm having a problem with. We don't need to make a decision on vaccinating kids right now.

This seems like a big misunderstanding fueled by fear and disinformation.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Then why talk about "we don't know the long-term effects"? Why not just "we don't know the effects on kids yet", which is not in dispute by anyone, and has yet to be studied?

I think that's the hang up here.

I’m sorry. Isn’t that basically the same thing? We don’t know the long term effect. Long term effects are far more likely to impact a child, as you’d hope they have a lot longer life span than we do (or at least I do, since I’m anywhere from 44-49 years older than my children).

this is splitting some very fine hairs man. It just is. From where I sit.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You haven’t missed anything. That’s exactly it.

nope incorrect....

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Because nobody I saw in this thread was telling him he had to vaccinate his kids without adequate testing the vaccine on kids. He says others were saying that but I've not seen the posts.

So when some arguments about "long term effects" and "new tech" and "rushed to approval" start coming out in the discussion, which have nothing to do with giving it to kids right now, it seems like it's coming from the usual antivax FUD circles, even if he's not antivax.

That's what I'm having a problem with. We don't need to make a decision on vaccinating kids right now.

This seems like a big misunderstanding fueled by fear and disinformation.

Then why are we talking about it?

 

[Ridley Simon]

Because nobody I saw in this thread was telling him he had to vaccinate his kids without adequate testing the vaccine on kids. He says others were saying that but I've not seen the posts.

So when some arguments about "long term effects" and "new tech" and "rushed to approval" start coming out in the discussion, which have nothing to do with giving it to kids right now, it seems like it's coming from the usual antivax FUD circles, even if he's not antivax.

That's what I'm having a problem with. We don't need to make a decision on vaccinating kids right now.

This seems like a big misunderstanding fueled by fear and disinformation.

Again, I have a lot of fear. Never said I didn’t. Read my response to @Calicaps. Fear is a huge driver.

misinformation? no. Not at all. Lack of concrete information, yes. We don’t have enough. Even for the tests on adults we don’t have enough.

AGAIN. it’s a leap of faith for adults right now. That’s how I view it. And it’s a leap I won’t take w my children.

edit — and please stop trying to lump us into the anti-vaccine group. I’ve repeatedly told you that’s not how we view things and yet you repeatedly ignore it. You want to pin that on us to fit some narrative because we don’t agree with you. It’s simply wrong and it’s gotta stop. Enough with that. Ok?

 

[Ridley Simon]

nope incorrect....

Just for fun, but to the point:

 

[Ridley Simon]

Then why are we talking about it?

I was commenting on people discussing the mandate of vaccination. And I said ok but not for my kids (when that time comes)

and here we are

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Discussing people’s kids seems like a great way to piss everyone off and derail a discussion so let’s maybe call it a day and move on.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

My mother and my niece who is a nurse have had both doses of the jab. Don’t know which brand they had though. My mother had nothing but a sore arm for both. My niece had a sore arm for both and was run down for a day after her 2nd. Just FYI.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Discussing people’s kids seems like a great way to piss everyone off and derail a discussion so let’s maybe call it a day and move on.

Yeah. I’m done.

If I pissed anyone off, or insulted anyone, I fully apologize. It’s hard to not get emotionally attached (and charged up) when taking about my kids.

I fully respect and appreciate all of you (save that one guy, who definitely got me started on the wrong foot), and I don’t mean to misrepresent my feelings for the long term posters I have always enjoyed on this forum. You ALL are terrific people and your views should be respected in all facets.

so full Mea Culpa.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Yeah. I’m done.

If I pissed anyone off, or insulted anyone, I fully apologize. It’s hard to not get emotionally attached (and charged up) when taking about my kids.

I fully respect and appreciate all of you (save that one guy, who definitely got me started on the wrong foot), and I don’t mean to misrepresent my feelings for the long term posters I have always enjoyed on this forum. You ALL are terrific people and your views should be respected in all facets.

so full Mea Culpa.

For me it’s all good. Any other discussion on here I am primed and ready to debate and challenge. For this subject not so much.

I’ll comment and give my opinion or share my experience but so much is unknown, and the folk in power have done their best to spin us up with contradictory information either by accident or on purpose, that none of use know enough to say with conviction another point of view is wrong.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Just for fun, but to the point:

the truth of the matter is some rando poster did a drive bye on you, insulted you and you ramped it up to 1000mph immediately.

Every post since it’s like you’re taking offense to your parenting. Sorry you feel that way...I’d prefer to talk the science of it all and so far in terms of vaccines released for public consumption, it’s either “well look at Polio” or “it’s too new, we don’t know”.......where’s the acceptable cutoff to not vaccinate while we wait for something that may not exist? 6 months? A year? I’ve tried to not make this personal, honestly trying to understand the mindset of other like parents, so apologies also if somehow my questions offended. And sorry I didn’t read past your Trump photo before responding.

 

[Ridley Simon]

the truth of the matter is some rando poster did a drive bye on you, insulted you and you ramped it up to 1000mph immediately.

Every post since it’s like you’re taking offense to your parenting. Sorry you feel that way...I’d prefer to talk the science of it all and so far in terms of vaccines released for public consumption, it’s either “well look at Polio” or “it’s too new, we don’t know”.......where’s the acceptable cutoff to not vaccinate while we wait for something that may not exist? 6 months? A year? I’ve tried to not make this personal, honestly trying to understand the mindset of other like parents, so apologies also if somehow my questions offended. And sorry I didn’t read past your Trump photo before responding.

We honestly don’t fully trust the science yet — when it comes to our kids. We can leave it at that.

I don’t know how long. None of it makes us fully comfortable yet for our children. For a variety of reasons which we don’t need to rehash.

I can understand if people don’t see it that way. It’s just how we see it, today.

 

[Calicaps]

I didnt know whether you had kids or not.

No disrespect, but I don’t think it gives you an objective view. I just don’t. The fear that comes from something happening to your child, and having to bury them before you, is something you can’t really understand unless you have one. I witnessed it with my parents when my younger brother passed. It’s a pain and anguish that is not comparable to any else. Ask any parent that’s lost a child.

so what am I afraid of? Pretty easy — knowingly walking them into something that I cannot guarantee won’t hurt them. At least certainly enough of a guarantee. What is a level of guarantee? That’s up to each person. But it’s a sure of hell a lot higher than it is for me, for my wife, and for my parents.

if people can’t agree or understand that, no problem.

Actually, the bolded and growing up around severely disabled kids is probably the main reason I don't have them. I fully understood all my life that these were risks I was unwilling to take because I know I wouldn't survive them and I'd probably make my children insane out of fear. I don't know the feeling because I knew instinctively that it would be unbearable. No amount of potential joy could ever be worth that.

But I what I said I had is an objective view of the conversation, not of any one argument or position or rationale.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Actually, the bolded and growing up around severely disabled kids is probably the main reason I don't have them. I fully understood all my life that these were risks I was unwilling to take because I know I wouldn't survive them and I'd probably make my children insane out of fear. I don't know the feeling because I knew instinctively that it would be unbearable. No amount of potential joy could ever be worth that.

But I what I said I had is an objective view of the conversation, not of any one argument or position or rationale.

I understand.

Perhaps then you can understand the abject fear of creating a situation that hurts your children. We probably unknowingly do that daily anyway, sadly (so many odd places you can damage your kids), so knowingly doing so (even if such a small probability) is paralyzing.

I fully respect your comments.

and I’m sorry if that wasn’t apparent beforehand