Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals Part 2

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g00n

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Droppin' science like Galileo dropped the orange!

Yeah he dropped science, on its head.

This whole thing started over his claim that vaccines are causing the variants, and that Delta came from AZ use in India, iirc. They don't and it didn't. Regardless of anything else, or whether or not Delta can spread among everyone.

Vaccines are good. They don't cause mutations at a higher rate than unchecked viral replication. It's the opposite. The fact that mutations still occur and that they circumvent the vaccines is just natural selection, not some acceleration of the process. That acceleration happens when the virus has exponentially greater opportunity to multiply and thus mutate. The replication frequency is the window for mutation.

It's hilarious that people talking shit on vaccines are throwing around "antivax" like an insult, and then parroting antivax crank propaganda & theories.
 
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g00n

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For real though, if you read that person's posts with that song running in the background, it's very entertaining.

Had to look up which album. PB was disappointing imo after L2I so didn't play it as much. They note in the BB Book their original version of that record was better, but it was redone in a more expensive studio or something and lost a lot of it's best qualities. Half the songs are good imo. Shadrach especially
 
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AlexBrovechkin8

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He is the bizarro Jerry to the MAGA toolbags that think COVID vaccines will make them infertile. Calling him a zealot is being nice. He is a COVID Nutter.
Even if true, so what? Why would it bother anyone if someone is overly zealous about Covid? Given my choices between someone being a Covid “nutter” or an anti-vaxxer it’s a pretty easy choice which one I prefer. The former may be a little over the top but they pose no danger to others and their actions don’t selfishly put others at risk while the latter accomplishes both. If there were more of one group and less of the other we’d be done with this bullshit.

And frankly I wouldn’t mind the anti-vaxxers as much either if they actually took the necessary steps to ensure their actions didn’t have an outsized consequence on other people. If the no-shotters actually wore masks and adhered to other procedures then we wouldn’t be in this mess but they want to scream “my body my choice” and live life as if nothing is wrong and no one else has to suffer for their decisions and they want to flaunt their garbage as some misconstrued representation of their rights and the rest of us have to suffer for it. Unfortunately they are taking choices away from the rest of us with their actions and decisions and I’m pretty tired of it.

And that’s not even touching on the outsized cost burden they have on the healthcare system both in terms of cost to the taxpayer and in terms of how many beds and resources they take up when they end up in the hospital. Maybe we could go full cycle with “my body my choice” and tell them they don’t need the vaccine but they agree to waive medical care if they need it due to Covid.
 
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twabby

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I think blaming anti-vax people individually for not getting the shot is fine but it kind of misses the forest for the trees.

When you have a system designed to beat people down and have them live in fear of poverty constantly, and a government that absolutely has earned the distrust of its citizenry, and a healthcare system designed to make a profit first and then deliver healthcare if you can afford it, can you really blame people for being distrustful and resisting when they say you need to get this shot?



If 1/3 of people truly do fear the cost of the vaccine, despite it being free, isn't that indicative of bigger issues than just people being asshole edgelords who want to own the libs? Isn't it fair to say that black people, who as a group have been disproportionately abused by our for-profit healthcare system for years, have a good reason to be generally distrustful of receiving medical care? Perhaps that is why they are some of the most vaccine-hesitant people in the country.

When people are forced back to work as a waitress at Olive Garden or Red Lobster for $2.13 an hour plus tips so people can stuff their faces with unlimited soup, salad, and breadsticks, or cheddar bay biscuits, doesn't it seem a little bit inconsistent with the messaging that the virus is still a really big deal? One would think that if we are still combating this virus that we should, you know, go into lockdown until we reach certain health benchmarks. Instead, it seems like everyone in power seems more focused on keeping the economy humming with health being a secondary concern. It seems like if the government really cared about preventing the spread of the virus they would not be ending the eviction moratorium tomorrow and making homeless shelters full, or they'd continue unemployment benefits, or continue sending stimulus checks. But they're not, they want to grind people into dust.

Again, everyone should get vaccinated. But blaming lack of vaccine uptake on millions of individual poor choices rather than on a system designed to pit people against each other and designed to destroy any sense of community is misguided IMO.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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I think blaming anti-vax people individually for not getting the shot is fine but it kind of misses the forest for the trees.

When you have a system designed to beat people down and have them live in fear of poverty constantly, and a government that absolutely has earned the distrust of its citizenry, and a healthcare system designed to make a profit first and then deliver healthcare if you can afford it, can you really blame people for being distrustful and resisting when they say you need to get this shot?



If 1/3 of people truly do fear the cost of the vaccine, despite it being free, isn't that indicative of bigger issues than just people being asshole edgelords who want to own the libs? Isn't it fair to say that black people, who as a group have been disproportionately abused by our for-profit healthcare system for years, have a good reason to be generally distrustful of receiving medical care? Perhaps that is why they are some of the most vaccine-hesitant people in the country.

When people are forced back to work as a waitress at Olive Garden or Red Lobster for $2.13 an hour plus tips so people can stuff their faces with unlimited soup, salad, and breadsticks, or cheddar bay biscuits, doesn't it seem a little bit inconsistent with the messaging that the virus is still a really big deal? One would think that if we are still combating this virus that we should, you know, go into lockdown until we reach certain health benchmarks. Instead, it seems like everyone in power seems more focused on keeping the economy humming with health being a secondary concern. It seems like if the government really cared about preventing the spread of the virus they would not be ending the eviction moratorium tomorrow and making homeless shelters full, or they'd continue unemployment benefits, or continue sending stimulus checks. But they're not, they want to grind people into dust.

Again, everyone should get vaccinated. But blaming lack of vaccine uptake on millions of individual poor choices rather than on a system designed to pit people against each other and designed to destroy any sense of community is misguided IMO.


I think you bring up a lot of great points, I think our medical system has massive problems…..but still….

get the f’ing shot (not at you specifically)….do your part or you are part of the problem….difficult situations be damned. This is bigger than a system problem which in itself is a huge problem yes.

So, yes I acknowledge a systemic problem, and I also acknowledge the sheeple and that their poor choices matter.

Let’s all try to stay alive FIRST, then hopefully we can work on the rest.
 
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kicksavedave

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Again, everyone should get vaccinated. But blaming lack of vaccine uptake on millions of individual poor choices rather than on a system designed to pit people against each other and designed to destroy any sense of community is misguided IMO.

Really good post, and very true, the system has failed in many ways, not just currently on the vaccine effort but nationally (globally?) for generations.

However I still think a lot of the vaccine resistance right now is just pure political tribalism. When the good folks st CPAC literally cheered the fact that the Biden admin was behind on the vaccine count, it tells you pretty much the whole story there. A lot of folks don't want to get the vaccine because... "Biden". The same folks who bragged about how fast Trump "created the vaccines in record time". People on Fox news or even actual elected officials compare the vax campaign to Nazi Germany's treatment of Jews, what do we expect from their followers?

This is the problem for me... people will reject science and public health benefits, to score sad political points, in fact at risk to their own health. There is likely no getting many of these folks to change their minds.
 

twabby

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Really good post, and very true, the system has failed in many ways, not just currently on the vaccine effort but nationally (globally?) for generations.

However I still think a lot of the vaccine resistance right now is just pure political tribalism. When the good folks st CPAC literally cheered the fact that the Biden admin was behind on the vaccine count, it tells you pretty much the whole story there. A lot of folks don't want to get the vaccine because... "Biden". The same folks who bragged about how fast Trump "created the vaccines in record time". People on Fox news or even actual elected officials compare the vax campaign to Nazi Germany's treatment of Jews, what do we expect from their followers?

This is the problem for me... people will reject science and public health benefits, to score sad political points, in fact at risk to their own health. There is likely no getting many of these folks to change their minds.

Of course, but political tribalism is a result of the country failing us over and over again. If the government generally took care of its people and communities were strong, and if people generally felt happy then they wouldn't need to grasp on to these political identities and wouldn't be as susceptible to propaganda. Instead we are pitted against each other and of course this leads to taking sides.
 

g00n

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You are not going to end left vs right conflict probably ever. The resistance is almost all manipulation by bad actors on one side. The residual lower income distrust is due to ignorance, whatever the source. And we know the sources. You can't try to use the pandemic as a lever to push for political reform when one side is just obstructing and outside influences are working alongside to sabotage control of the viral spread through disinformation.
 

g00n

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Really good post, and very true, the system has failed in many ways, not just currently on the vaccine effort but nationally (globally?) for generations.

However I still think a lot of the vaccine resistance right now is just pure political tribalism. When the good folks st CPAC literally cheered the fact that the Biden admin was behind on the vaccine count, it tells you pretty much the whole story there. A lot of folks don't want to get the vaccine because... "Biden". The same folks who bragged about how fast Trump "created the vaccines in record time". People on Fox news or even actual elected officials compare the vax campaign to Nazi Germany's treatment of Jews, what do we expect from their followers?

This is the problem for me... people will reject science and public health benefits, to score sad political points, in fact at risk to their own health. There is likely no getting many of these folks to change their minds.

There is no question about the origin of the resistance for most of the people not getting the shot.

Unvaccinated Americans Whiter, More Republican Than Vaccinated

I mean this isn't even in doubt. Any other explanation is gaslighting. We know there's always going to be some outlier antivax overlap, and some distrust of the system that may be racial, but that can be overcome with better information and urgency. I know people like this who have flipped. There are people here who've done so, I'm sure.

But the hardline resistance and the boosting of the signal to make this about "freedom" is purely political. And it traces back to He Who Shall Not Be Named. Full stop.

WRT the insurance pattern, that's likely correlation not causation. It's like looking at X distribution map and then laying over a population map, and seeing the same thing. Lack of health insurance is going to track with lower income and education, which means you're getting into groups who have been targeted for the disinformation and junk science, so they resist the vaccine. Do they send their kids to school without being vaccinated for other diseases? Probably not. Do they avoid urgent care? Probably not. So it's not just some "the system has failed and they're suspicious" explanation. It's a coordinated and deliberate campaign.
 
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kicksavedave

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Of course, but political tribalism is a result of the country failing us over and over again. If the government generally took care of its people and communities were strong, and if people generally felt happy then they wouldn't need to grasp on to these political identities and wouldn't be as susceptible to propaganda. Instead we are pitted against each other and of course this leads to taking sides.


Not sure I buy that the tribalism is a result of govt failure, thats the convenient excuse from the bad actors who demonize their political opponents for the purpose of enriching their own political power. In the past the country would always come together in times of national need, 9/11 being an example. But now, today, political and media leaders see no political benefit from unity, so they mislead their followers to believe that things like the vaccine are bad for you, suddenly changing from an amazing thing when one leader promotes it to a terrible thing when a different leader promotes it. That mistrust is not natural or justified, its manufactured for political reasons.

This pandemic is a perfect example of where politics should have no place in our response because ALL Americans benefit equally from eradicating it, where we should have 9/11 style unity in our response, but only one side has taken the positions of "its a hoax, its not really dangerous, don't step on my liberty, the vaccine = Nazism" etc etc.
 
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g00n

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Not sure I buy that the tribalism is a result of govt failure, thats the convenient excuse from the bad actors who demonize their political opponents for the purpose of enriching their own political power. In the past the country would always come together in times of national need, 9/11 being an example. But now, today, political and media leaders see no political benefit from unity, so they mislead their followers to believe that things like the vaccine are bad for you, suddenly changing from an amazing thing when one leader promotes it to a terrible thing when a different leader promotes it. That mistrust is not natural or justified, its manufactured for political reasons.

This pandemic is a perfect example of where politics should have no place in our response because ALL Americans benefit equally from eradicating it, where we should have 9/11 style unity in our response, but only one side has taken the positions of "its a hoax, its not really dangerous, don't step on my liberty, the vaccine = Nazism" etc etc.

I know we're not supposed to talk about politics but it's impossible in this case. Let's just rip off the band aid. The current antivax/antimask problem is due to Donald Trump making the pandemic all about him and his reelection campaign. His concern for the stock market and insistence on downplaying the virus while punishing anyone who opposed him (or wore a mask) is what turned the response into a political monster. The efforts to curb mail-in voting were targeted at people taking the pandemic seriously, while he encouraged his own supporters to go out and vote in person. The current resistance is mostly left over from that political spinjob.

So let's be real. Most of the people getting sick and dying now are Republicans in poorer areas (thus the lower health insurance stats) who have latched on to the notion that vaccines "shed" and cause infertility/defects/etc, masks are "freedom muzzles", Bill Gates is putting microchips in us, etc etc. It's all bullshit that's being pushed by ACTUAL RICH ELITES who don't care about "rural" citizens other than vote totals needed to stay in power, which is why they're starting to pivot on vaccines (due to the voter die off).

And lest people think I'm naive about the reach of propaganda, foreign and domestic bad faith actors were involved in stoking fears on both sides last year, particularly around BLM as well as vaccines. We know this for a fact, and it fits a long pattern. The goal from outside the country is to pit us against each other and encourage violence and disruption tied to extremist, fringe views. Shit like 1/6 is what happens as a result. And now we have Republicans calling DC cops "crisis actors" for testifying about how they were beaten up ON CAMERA.

It's shameless, obvious, and disgraceful. It's also deadly and a major threat to America's future as a democracy. There is no amount of perfume you can spray on this turd pile to convince any sane person that all this shit didn't happen.
 

kicksavedave

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I know we're not supposed to talk about politics but it's impossible in this case. Let's just rip off the band aid. The current antivax/antimask problem is due to Donald Trump making the pandemic all about him and his reelection campaign. His concern for the stock market and insistence on downplaying the virus while punishing anyone who opposed him (or wore a mask) is what turned the response into a political monster. The efforts to curb mail-in voting were targeted at people taking the pandemic seriously, while he encouraged his own supporters to go out and vote in person. The current resistance is mostly left over from that political spinjob.

So let's be real. Most of the people getting sick and dying now are Republicans in poorer areas (thus the lower health insurance stats) who have latched on to the notion that vaccines "shed" and cause infertility/defects/etc, masks are "freedom muzzles", Bill Gates is putting microchips in us, etc etc. It's all bullshit that's being pushed by ACTUAL RICH ELITES who don't care about "rural" citizens other than vote totals needed to stay in power, which is why they're starting to pivot on vaccines (due to the voter die off).

And lest people think I'm naive about the reach of propaganda, foreign and domestic bad faith actors were involved in stoking fears on both sides last year, particularly around BLM as well as vaccines. We know this for a fact, and it fits a long pattern. The goal from outside the country is to pit us against each other and encourage violence and disruption tied to extremist, fringe views. Shit like 1/6 is what happens as a result. And now we have Republicans calling DC cops "crisis actors" for testifying about how they were beaten up ON CAMERA.

It's shameless, obvious, and disgraceful. It's also deadly and a major threat to America's future as a democracy. There is no amount of perfume you can spray on this turd pile to convince any sane person that all this shit didn't happen.


This. All of this.

Donald Trump could go and tell his followers "Go get the vaccine, I created it myself, its safe and effective". And that would swing the needle tremendously in favor of overall public health. But he doesn't do that, because... "Biden"????:huh:

This current response is 5% Anti Vax nutters and 95% political cult leadership serving their own political interests without a care in the world for the actual lives of their supporters.
 

twabby

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You are not going to end left vs right conflict probably ever. The resistance is almost all manipulation by bad actors on one side. The residual lower income distrust is due to ignorance, whatever the source. And we know the sources. You can't try to use the pandemic as a lever to push for political reform when one side is just obstructing and outside influences are working alongside to sabotage control of the viral spread through disinformation.

The overt messaging is certainly mostly on one side, but actions taken by the other side do not indicate that they believe containing the virus is a worthy cause either. Otherwise we would still be in lockdown with generous benefits provided to all until certain health benchmarks are met, and the eviction moratorium would be extended indefinitely, for instance. Instead, the working poor have to continue to put their lives at risk flipping Whoppers at a Burger King for $8.00 an hour because their unemployment benefits have run out and they will start being evicted from their apartments in 2 days.

Unfortunately it seems as if both parties serve capital and they have decided that opening up the economy and further enriching themselves and their donors is more important than millions of people dead around the globe. One side is at least honest with everyone that they don't care if mee-maw and paw-paw have to die in agony in order to secure those quarterly profits.

Not sure I buy that the tribalism is a result of govt failure, thats the convenient excuse from the bad actors who demonize their political opponents for the purpose of enriching their own political power. In the past the country would always come together in times of national need, 9/11 being an example. But now, today, political and media leaders see no political benefit from unity, so they mislead their followers to believe that things like the vaccine are bad for you, suddenly changing from an amazing thing when one leader promotes it to a terrible thing when a different leader promotes it. That mistrust is not natural or justified, its manufactured for political reasons.

This pandemic is a perfect example of where politics should have no place in our response because ALL Americans benefit equally from eradicating it, where we should have 9/11 style unity in our response, but only one side has taken the positions of "its a hoax, its not really dangerous, don't step on my liberty, the vaccine = Nazism" etc etc.

We did come together on 9/11, but is anyone truly better off because of this "coming together"? The 9/11-style unity led to a 20 year war in Afghanistan that only now might be ending this year if we are lucky. The 9/11 unity also led to a war that killed close to 1 million Iraqis, and the current President was one of the biggest proponents of this war. So yes, Republicans and Democrats did come together after 9/11. But no one was truly better off because of it, aside from Exxon-Mobil, Northrop-Grummun, Lockheed-Martin, etc. It made us feel good for a bit, I guess. And it sure beats being vaporized by a bomb with a Raytheon logo on it!

I think it's fair to say that most everyone, even the mega-rich, would have preferred if the virus never happened. But I disagree that everyone benefits from taking measures necessary to eradicate the virus now that it's here. A hard lockdown, increased hazard-pay, generous unemployment benefits, an eviction moratorium, debt cancellation, etc. would help mostly everyone and would be the biggest transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor in our history. Which is why it will never happen. The rich depend on keeping the working poor in a constant state of fear, and by giving the working poor a sniff of these generous benefits there is a big risk to capital. We're already kind of seeing it with the "labor shortage", i.e. companies too cheap to pay their employees a living wage. Workers figured hey, why work at some shitty job when they can't even match the unemployment check I'm getting? That scares the mega-rich.
 

Eirikrautha

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"By July 26, 469 cases had been identified, of which 74 percent - or 346 - were among fully vaccinated with at least 14 days since their final dose.
Among this group, 46 percent had received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, 38 percent got the Moderna vaccine and 16 percent got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
The remaining 26 percent, or 84 cases, were among people who were unvaccinated, had only received one dose or whose vaccination status was unknown."
Wow!
 

CapitalsCupReality

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The overt messaging is certainly mostly on one side, but actions taken by the other side do not indicate that they believe containing the virus is a worthy cause either. Otherwise we would still be in lockdown with generous benefits provided to all until certain health benchmarks are met, and the eviction moratorium would be extended indefinitely, for instance. Instead, the working poor have to continue to put their lives at risk flipping Whoppers at a Burger King for $8.00 an hour because their unemployment benefits have run out and they will start being evicted from their apartments in 2 days.

Unfortunately it seems as if both parties serve capital and they have decided that opening up the economy and further enriching themselves and their donors is more important than millions of people dead around the globe. One side is at least honest with everyone that they don't care if mee-maw and paw-paw have to die in agony in order to secure those quarterly profits.



We did come together on 9/11, but is anyone truly better off because of this "coming together"? The 9/11-style unity led to a 20 year war in Afghanistan that only now might be ending this year if we are lucky. The 9/11 unity also led to a war that killed close to 1 million Iraqis, and the current President was one of the biggest proponents of this war. So yes, Republicans and Democrats did come together after 9/11. But no one was truly better off because of it, aside from Exxon-Mobil, Northrop-Grummun, Lockheed-Martin, etc. It made us feel good for a bit, I guess. And it sure beats being vaporized by a bomb with a Raytheon logo on it!

I think it's fair to say that most everyone, even the mega-rich, would have preferred if the virus never happened. But I disagree that everyone benefits from taking measures necessary to eradicate the virus now that it's here. A hard lockdown, increased hazard-pay, generous unemployment benefits, an eviction moratorium, debt cancellation, etc. would help mostly everyone and would be the biggest transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor in our history. Which is why it will never happen. The rich depend on keeping the working poor in a constant state of fear, and by giving the working poor a sniff of these generous benefits there is a big risk to capital. We're already kind of seeing it with the "labor shortage", i.e. companies too cheap to pay their employees a living wage. Workers figured hey, why work at some shitty job when they can't even match the unemployment check I'm getting? That scares the mega-rich.

which is at least partially why so many will remain in that economic working class….willing to take the free handout instead of the internal drive to rise up and better one’s self and improve life, but free handouts can’t last forever.

anyway lots of good discussion points….
 

g00n

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The overt messaging is certainly mostly on one side, but actions taken by the other side do not indicate that they believe containing the virus is a worthy cause either. Otherwise we would still be in lockdown with generous benefits provided to all until certain health benchmarks are met, and the eviction moratorium would be extended indefinitely, for instance. Instead, the working poor have to continue to put their lives at risk flipping Whoppers at a Burger King for $8.00 an hour because their unemployment benefits have run out and they will start being evicted from their apartments in 2 days.

Unfortunately it seems as if both parties serve capital and they have decided that opening up the economy and further enriching themselves and their donors is more important than millions of people dead around the globe. One side is at least honest with everyone that they don't care if mee-maw and paw-paw have to die in agony in order to secure those quarterly profits.

LOL so "both sides are bad but at least the bad guys are honest". Yeah sure. Scorching hot take I've never heard before.

Nobody wants lockdowns, bruh. Some people actually want to work and make money. Those who don't feel safe should be allowed to stay home but millions of people are currently working because they're masking and/or have been vaccinated. The vaccines do what they're supposed to do and we can only hunker down for so long. Every country knows this and it's not just about "serving capital".

The ratio of governors cutting off UI benefits is 25:1 R vs D

25 GOP-led states and one Democratic state are cutting $300 weekly federal unemployment benefits. Here are the 26 states making the cut this summer.

But yeah, "both sides".

You talk about divisiveness and messaging but you're not immune to it. "Both sides are bad" is taking a side...a third side. I'm not sure you're aware but people like yourself are prime targets for the disinfo campaigns.
 

HeyMattyB

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which is at least partially why so many will remain in that economic working class….willing to take the free handout instead of the internal drive to rise up and better one’s self and improve life, but free handouts can’t last forever.

Shit man, if only the working class, underprivileged, and oppressed people had the drive to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, amirite? (Say the people who don't realize, or are unwilling to acknowledge, that they were blessed with a polished new pair of boots the moment they were born.)
 
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kicksavedave

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"By July 26, 469 cases had been identified, of which 74 percent - or 346 - were among fully vaccinated with at least 14 days since their final dose.
Among this group, 46 percent had received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, 38 percent got the Moderna vaccine and 16 percent got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
The remaining 26 percent, or 84 cases, were among people who were unvaccinated, had only received one dose or whose vaccination status was unknown."
Wow!

Before you go spiking the football, maybe lets find out all the evidence first.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/30/provincetown-covid-outbreak-vaccinated/
Provincetown is famous for its party scene and is at the tip of Cape Cod in a festive July 4 environment that could have, and did, prove ideal for explosive spread of the more contagious delta variant.
About three-quarters of cases occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, and that group had received vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson.

The outbreak has all the hallmarks of a superspreader event, with infected people reporting to public health officials that they gathered in “densely packed indoor and outdoor events that included bars, restaurants, guest houses and rental homes.” The full outbreak, which began July 4, is close to 900 cases, but the analysis included only a subset of them (469?).

So the vaccines are not 100% effective against stupidity and you can't act like the pandemic is completely over just because you got the shot. Hopefully, the right lessons will be learned here, but you've demonstrated that the disinformation campaign will likely use this as evidence.. of what exactly? That the straw man argument wasn't true?
 
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g00n

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upload_2021-7-30_13-33-42.png


Guess which area had the outbreak?

From the CDC description these 469 cases were compiled over several weeks during the July 4th holiday festivities and events, with a lot of tourists from all over the country and apparently no real safety precautions taken at "densely packed indoor and outdoor events at venues that included bars, restaurants, guest houses, and rental homes.". They went from no cases to a lot of cases almost instantly. The 74% of studied cases being among vaccinated people is close to the rate of vaccination in that county. It's a representation of the population post-exposure with no safety measures taken, not an indication that vaccinated people are 3 times as likely to catch Rona.

As the CDC report says: " As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases. "


To me this nearly 1:1 ratio (county vax rate and rate of those infected who were vaxxed) suggests the Delta variant is virulent enough to overpower any vaccine given enough exposure, but the vaccines do the job of limiting the effects on the host. It's also still not clear how many people were there and didn't get sick (there were travelers from at least 22 states who reported cases), and whether the high viral load detected in the testing of nasal swabs means live virus was actively infecting people or just mostly DOA.

Very stupid behavior, imo. But how many people were there, for how long, and how many did NOT get infected? Also nobody died. The CDC also stated about 80% of the positives were symptomatic, so the "vaccinated asymptomatic carrier" concept might be overblown.

This is clear indication to me that behavior has to change until this variant is under control, whether or not unvaccinated people from out of town caused the outbreak or if it was just spreading among everyone.

The actual CDC link and not Daily Fail: Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, including COVID-19 ...
 

g00n

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30,430
14,290
Interesting part in the caveats at the end: "Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load.††† Although the assay used in this investigation was not validated to provide quantitative results, there was no significant difference between the Ct values of samples collected from breakthrough cases and the other cases. This might mean that the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is also similar. However, microbiological studies are required to confirm these findings."


How about we get on that, eh?
 
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