OT: Coronavirus 3 - wait but Covid 19 is SARS-CoV-2

[SlavinAway]

the distribution is going to be especially rough with some of the vaccine candidates, specifically the mRNA vaccines. i am pretty sure that these will have to be stored, distributed, and administered at very cold temperatures (pfizer's requires something around -90 C storage, iirc). i am a supply chain analyst for a biotech company. i can tell you from experience that cold chain, both 2-8C and freezer space (but especially freezer space), was already in high demand prior to covid-19. mRNA vaccines degrade rapidly as they warm (unlike drugs based on proteins or biosimilars), so they have very rigid storage requirements. unfortunately, this means that our typical processes for administering large numbers of doses of these vaccines will not work. most normal doctor's offices and pharmacies do not have the type of freezer storage to support dosing patients with these at any sort of scale, so they will have to find another way to handle that aspect. they will probably need to find a way to get people to hospitals or analytical labs to actually get the vaccine. this isn't even touching on the logistical nightmare that managing cold shipping/transport of this magnitude will be... but at least that is something that is already pretty routine.

That's unfortunate because one of the major benefits of mRNA vaccines is the relative ease of scaling manufacturing...

I certainly don't have your level of experience but I work in clinical research so am somewhat familiar with those logistics and intimately familiar with the associated temp monitoring.

How widespread is availability of -90C storage? I don't think I've ever seen anything beyond -70C...

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I have no experience whatsoever in this field, but if after the trials it becomes clear that the mRNA vaccines are the way to go, isn’t it a matter of national interest to subsidize these freezers as much as possible? Like, as a part of the third stimulus package can’t they set up “vaccine stations” the same way they would polling stations, and part of that being investment in those freezers? I imagine this can’t happen without a central effort, and say what you will about our government but the stimulus package showed they’re capable of it. Like I said though, not an expert on any of this so maybe I’m missing something.

 

[Unsustainable]

New CDC report shows 94% of COVID-19 deaths in US had contributing conditions | CBS 42

So C19SAR2 was a contributing factor to 94% of the deaths in the USA.

So 10k from Covid alone, then the rest from COPD, Diabetes, and other health factors.

An ongoing problem is that no one is pushing healthy lifestyles to protect against this.

Vitamin D, Zinc, and a good multivitamin, then some good old fashion exercise and you should be fine.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

New CDC report shows 94% of COVID-19 deaths in US had contributing conditions | CBS 42

So C19SAR2 was a contributing factor to 94% of the deaths in the USA.

So 10k from Covid alone, then the rest from COPD, Diabetes, and other health factors.

An ongoing problem is that no one is pushing healthy lifestyles to protect against this.

Vitamin D, Zinc, and a good multivitamin, then some good old fashion exercise and you should be fine.

That’s nonsense. A contributing condition doesn’t mean you would have died if covid didn’t exist. Having asthma, high blood pressure, diabetes, COPD, etc.,. Isn’t a death sentence.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

New CDC report shows 94% of COVID-19 deaths in US had contributing conditions | CBS 42

So C19SAR2 was a contributing factor to 94% of the deaths in the USA.

So 10k from Covid alone, then the rest from COPD, Diabetes, and other health factors.

An ongoing problem is that no one is pushing healthy lifestyles to protect against this.

Vitamin D, Zinc, and a good multivitamin, then some good old fashion exercise and you should be fine.

Do you know what's a humongous issue with the US lifestyle? The amount of sugar in your foods. It's freaking insane.

 

[Unsustainable]

That’s nonsense. A contributing condition doesn’t mean you would have died if covid didn’t exist. Having asthma, high blood pressure, diabetes, COPD, etc.,. Isn’t a death sentence.

Ie contributing factor. When combined with the those causes death. But death from it alone is pretty far outlier.

 

[Unsustainable]

Do you know what's a humongous issue with the US lifestyle? The amount of sugar in your foods. It's freaking insane.

Not arguing that at all. Sugar is everything.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ie contributing factor. When combined with the those causes death. But death from it alone is pretty far outlier.

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. Most viruses and diseases affect the most compromised. The flu does. To say that only 10K died from covid is nonsense. Vast majority of those would not have died without covid.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

BBA is right. You don't die from a virus unless you're immunocompromised.

EDIT: This statement is wrong, an addendum is below.

 

[MinJaBen]

BBA is right. You don't die from a virus unless you're immunocompromised.

I can think of several viruses that will kill you even if you have a very good immune system.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

I can think of several viruses that will kill you even if you have a very good immune system.

My bad, you don't die from viruses (that transmit so easily). Case in point Rabies are virus and they will straight up kill you without a vaccine.

 

[Unsustainable]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. Most viruses and diseases affect the most compromised. The flu does. To say that only 10K died from covid is nonsense. Vast majority of those would not have died without covid.

Only 10k from Covid by itself.
150k from Covid + xfactor

So now to figure out the survival rate vs death rate and the xfactors that increases the risk.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Only 10k from Covid by itself.
150k from Covid + xfactor

So now to figure out the survival rate vs death rate and the xfactors that increases the risk.

Again, that’s nonsense and a simplistic way of looking at it. Heart disease doesn’t kill people, it’s only those that have high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Car crashes don’t kill people, it’s only those that speed. You can rationalize anything.

lots of people have “underlying conditions“ when u you consider diabetes, age, high blood pressure, copd, asthma, etc. you are completely downplaying the impact of covid by implying only 10k died from it. It minimizes the impact.

 

[MinJaBen]

Only 10k from Covid by itself.
150k from Covid + xfactor

So now to figure out the survival rate vs death rate and the xfactors that increases the risk.

So 160k died from COVID, and of those, 10k had no underlying conditions.

 

[Unsustainable]

Again, that’s nonsense and a simplistic way of looking at it. Heart disease doesn’t kill people, it’s only those that have high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Car crashes don’t kill people, it’s only those that speed. You can rationalize anything.

lots of people have “underlying conditions“ when u you consider diabetes, age, high blood pressure, copd, asthma, etc. you are completely downplaying the impact of covid by implying only 10k died from it. It minimizes the impact.

Not downplaying it. Just looking at it from a risk factor. If you have those, your risk factor is substantially higher

 

[MinJaBen]

Not downplaying it. Just looking at it from a risk factor. If you have those, your risk factor is substantially higher

Yes. Your risk of complications or dying from COVID are higher if you have those risk factors.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not downplaying it. Just looking at it from a risk factor. If you have those, your risk factor is substantially higher

you stated:

So 10k from Covid alone, then the rest from COPD, Diabetes, and other health factors.

An ongoing problem is that no one is pushing healthy lifestyles to protect against this.

Vitamin D, Zinc, and a good multivitamin, then some good old fashion exercise and you should be fine.

That sees to be downplaying it to me. That’s what I’m responding to. Many conditions are hereditary or are things one can’t change now (or ever). Popping a few vitamins isn’t going to help an asthmatic or diabetic.

Anyhow, the risk to people with pre-exiting conditions and the elderly being more at risk have been known all along. If you are young and healthy, you are at much lower risk, which isn’t new info. Focus on protecting those at risk is already occurring and maybe more can/should be done there, I can’t say. Some examples though. My son is asthmatic and was given an exemption from in person classes at the university he goes to because of his condition before classes started. My neighbor has COPD ( as well as a DNI and DNR clause) and takes much stronger measures to prevent getting it. My Father is 83 so is very careful (my sister does his shopping) etc.

 

[bleedgreen]

Do you know what's a humongous issue with the US lifestyle? The amount of sugar in your foods. It's freaking insane.

This can’t be overstated.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Do you know what's a humongous issue with the US lifestyle? The amount of sugar in your foods. It's freaking insane.

It is crazy how much sugar (and salt) is in foods. I make my own marinara sauce and it contains no sugar. I was out and needed some in a pinch for a recipe so bought some at a store. It tasted like ketchup to me with all the sugar.

we try to avoid most processed food as much as possible but it’s still surprising at the sources of it.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

isn't this 10k deaths thing the latest qanon conspiracy nonsense?

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

@Boom Boom Apathy @bleedgreen

That was one of the things that genuinely confused me when I was visiting. All the pastry was sweet. Our everyday bread, buns, and this https://static.kosik.cz/images/thumbs/59/860x800x1_598f57689393cf238340a14abd256801.jpg aren't sweet unless we smash some honey or jam on it.

Also, that thing on the pic? You are missing out. Imagine something the size of a croissant, that doesn't give you diabetes.

 

[Unsustainable]

you stated:

So 10k from Covid alone, then the rest from COPD, Diabetes, and other health factors.

An ongoing problem is that no one is pushing healthy lifestyles to protect against this.

Vitamin D, Zinc, and a good multivitamin, then some good old fashion exercise and you should be fine.

That sees to be downplaying it to me. That’s what I’m responding to. Many conditions are hereditary or are things one can’t change now (or ever). Popping a few vitamins isn’t going to help an asthmatic or diabetic.

Anyhow, the risk to people with pre-exiting conditions and the elderly being more at risk have been known all along. If you are young and healthy, you are at much lower risk, which isn’t new info. Focus on protecting those at risk is already occurring and maybe more can/should be done there, I can’t say. Some examples though. My son is asthmatic and was given an exemption from in person classes at the university he goes to because of his condition before classes started. My neighbor has COPD ( as well as a DNI and DNR clause) and takes much stronger measures to prevent getting it. My Father is 83 so is very careful (my sister does his shopping) etc.

Maybe it's how I am wording it. I've always f***ed up conveying my thoughts.

The 10k deaths probably could have been avoided with a healthy lifestyle. The others had underlying problems that covid exploited.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

@Boom Boom Apathy @bleedgreen

That was one of the things that genuinely confused me when I was visiting. All the pastry was sweet. Our everyday bread, buns, and this https://static.kosik.cz/images/thumbs/59/860x800x1_598f57689393cf238340a14abd256801.jpg aren't sweet unless we smash some honey or jam on it.

Also, that thing on the pic? You are missing out. Imagine something the size of a croissant, that doesn't give you diabetes.

Ha ha. Thankfully, I've never been much of a "sweets" person as I prefer salty foods over sweet foods. Don't like/eat donuts or pastries for the most part. I think it's been over 2 years since I've even had one. Almost never eat ice-cream and it's been even longer since I've had that. I don't really like cakes, etc.. but will have a piece on special occasions (like a birthday). Don't drink soda or any fruit drinks.

I love dark chocolate though, but that's usually a small piece as a special treat every now and then. Also do like Cheese cakes and pumpkin pie for thanksgiving, but don't have them often (usually once per year).

It's the sneaky sugar that is hard to always avoid. Added sugar to peanut butter, canned sauces, ketch-up, salad dressings, crackers, and even breads for example. We try to avoid that as much as possible as well, but it's more difficult than the obvious things.

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe it's how I am wording it. I've always f***ed up conveying my thoughts.

The 10k deaths probably could have been avoided with a healthy lifestyle. The others had underlying problems that covid exploited.

The 10k deaths could be something showing Covid is more deadly than you think. Or it could be those 10k included many underlying conditions that were yet unidentified (hypertension, diabetes, etc.)

Or it could simply be a coroner who didn't fill out an death certificate fully while overloaded with dead bodies.

If the main cause of death is Covid, the medical determination is they died due to Covid. If they died of something else, that should be the primary cause of death on the death certificate.

This is also an underestimation, as the testing was well behind the virus early on and we have many deaths in March and April from "pneumonia" who were never tested for Covid.

The point is focusing on the 6% where a contributing condition is not listed is not a good way to look at things, especially in a country where HSS estimated in 2014 that 50% of Americans have some pre-existing condition, many of which would make us more susceptible to a more severe reaction to Covid.

 

[MinJaBen]

isn't this 10k deaths thing the latest qanon conspiracy nonsense?

Yes. Yes it is.

I'm just waiting to find out next that all the covid deaths were due to some pedo-pizza or some such nonsense.