OT: Coronavirus 3 - wait but Covid 19 is SARS-CoV-2

[RodTheBawd]

From WRAL:

One of three mothers who said they started the ReOpenNC protest has tested positive for COVID-19. She said she was in a two week quarantine that ended Sunday and was asymptomatic.
It's unclear if she attended the protest last week, which drew hundreds downtown, since was was under quarantine.


"As an asymptomatic COVID19 positive patient (quarantine ends 4/26) another concern I have is the treatment of COVID patients as it relates to other communicable diseases. I have been forced to quarantine in my home for 2 weeks," she wrote on her social media page.


"I have been told not to participate in public or private accommodations as requested by the government, and therefore denied my 1st amendment right of freedom of religion," she wrote.

f*** these people.

 

[The Stranger]

Yes, in many cases, that's true. But when the federal government, which should have unparalleled ability to mobilize to procure what might be considered "war materials" (masks, testing kits, et al) not only fails to do so, but ineptly competes with the states to which it has abrogated its responsibilities, it leads one to question what function our federal government is even capable of serving at present.

The government is supposed to be good at certain things. Allocating emergency resources in times of crisis is supposed to be one of those things. Not only is our current government not good at that, it's saying "we don't have to do that, that's what the states are for, oh except we're going to outbid our states for the very resources we told them to go procure." Okay.

Latest IQ2 debate: Is the Defense Production Act Being Underutilized?

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Latest IQ2 debate: Is the Defense Production Act Being Underutilized?

Honestly, I'm fine with this particular government staying away from DPA, because I don't think they even know what to ask for. We could get a hundred billion chloroquine tabs, or a nationalized IV Lysol industry.

 

[The Stranger]

Honestly, I'm fine with this particular government staying away from DPA, because I don't think they even know what to ask for. We could get a hundred billion chloroquine tabs, or a nationalized IV Lysol industry.

To the best of my knowledge, they've only invoked it relative to ventilator and PPE production.

...anyways, good discussion/debate if you have the time to listen.

 

[Lempo]

...wait...what?

She can't attend in a church service. She has a legit issue. Whether or not the public authority has the legal grounds to limit her use of her constitutional right due to the situation should now be found out.

The public authority probably does have, but.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Honestly, I'm fine with this particular government staying away from DPA, because I don't think they even know what to ask for. We could get a hundred billion chloroquine tabs, or a nationalized IV Lysol industry.

I read that 22 states stocked up on chloroquine...including North Carolina.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

She can't attend in a church service. She has a legit issue. Whether or not the public authority has the legal grounds to limit her use of her constitutional right due to the situation should now be found out.

The public authority probably does have, but.

Are there any church services even happening in NC? I know there are online services and recently one at a drive through where people stayed in their cars, but I'm not aware if any others are occurring. None of the ones near me are holding in person services, but it's a small sample that I see for sure.

 

[Lempo]

I read that 22 states stocked up on chloroquine...including North Carolina.

Exclusive: Amneal running out of hydroxychloroquine raw material due to Finnish restrictions

Amneal Pharmaceuticals could soon run out of the raw ingredients to make more of the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine that has been touted as a potential treatment for COVID-19 because Finland is keeping the drug for domestic use, according to the generic drugmaker's chief executives.

"The increased national need may impact the schedules of export deliveries, even if no export restrictions have been issued by the government," Fimea Director Johanna Nystedt said in an email. "Surely every country hopes to obtain more hydroxychloroquine at the moment and therefore its makers’ order books are certainly full."

 

[Lempo]

Are there any church services even happening in NC? I know there are online services and recently one at a drive through where people stayed in their cars, but I'm not aware if any others are occurring. None of the ones near me are holding in person services, but it's a small sample that I see for sure.

They are probably not happening because there apparently are some sort of restrictions prohibiting anyone having them. If so, that is a very potential First Amendment issue.

It may be "good idea" or "very beneficial" to ban such gatherings in the current situation, but if it's not absolutely necessary is that legal enough reason to ban the practice of religion?

 

[WreckingCrew]

She can't attend in a church service. She has a legit issue. Whether or not the public authority has the legal grounds to limit her use of her constitutional right due to the situation should now be found out.

The public authority probably does have, but.

They are probably not happening because there apparently are some sort of restrictions prohibiting anyone having them. If so, that is a very potential First Amendment issue.

It may be "good idea" or "very beneficial" to ban such gatherings in the current situation, but if it's not absolutely necessary is that legal enough reason to ban the practice of religion?

She's not being stopped from practicing her religion JUST because she can't physically go to church service. Lots of places are doing online service, she can practice from home, some places are even doing "drive-up" or "drive-in" services to still have sermons while adhering to social distancing. Now granted if she's in quarantine some of those options are not available to her, but that's not different than if you were severely injured and in ICU or something...and it's not infringing on her beliefs. Plus it's only temporary, it's not a permanent ban. I understand the folks who think these mandatory shutdowns are infringing on their rights (and even agree to an extent), but when your rights infringe on others health, safety, and well-being, there needs to be some restraint (like the outlaw of most public smoking outside designated areas)

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Exclusive: Amneal running out of hydroxychloroquine raw material due to Finnish restrictions

So uhhhh I wonder why? Is it because Trump talked about it ... or is it because it actually works?

 

[The Stranger]

So uhhhh I wonder why? Is it because Trump talked about it ... or is it because it actually works?

There was a small study that showed promise prior to Trump commenting on it.

Obviously a study of 20 patients is not sufficient to say "it actually works"...Trump's comments and the controversy of the comments certainly raised awareness.

So probably some of both.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

She's not being denied her First Amendment right because Congress has not passed a law preventing her from practicing her religion, nor abridged her freedom of speech, nor denied her right to assemble or petition the government.

Just because churches are (rightfully) holding non-in-person services doesn't mean your religion has suddenly disappeared. And if she believes that, she probably wasn't very religious in the first place.

 

[Unsustainable]

A guy who served with my dad in Vietnam (he’s 73) had lung cancer and effects due to agent orange.

They gave him that medication and he recovered.

 

[Joe McGrath]

She's not being denied her First Amendment right because Congress has not passed a law preventing her from practicing her religion, nor abridged her freedom of speech, nor denied her right to assemble or petition the government.

Just because churches are (rightfully) holding non-in-person services doesn't mean your religion has suddenly disappeared. And if she believes that, she probably wasn't very religious in the first place.

People who claim their 1st amendment rights are being violated almost always have no idea what they’re talking about.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

I would want to see proof of her positive test. These people are not known for being utterly forthright to begin with.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

A guy who served with my dad in Vietnam (he’s 73) had lung cancer and effects due to agent orange.

They gave him that medication and he recovered.

Yes, but he might well have recovered anyway.

I'm happy that he recovered, though.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

There was a small study that showed promise prior to Trump commenting on it.

Obviously a study of 20 patients is not sufficient to say "it actually works"...Trump's comments and the controversy of the comments certainly raised awareness.

So probably some of both.

Yep, Trump wouldn't have commented on it without that small study, but I do think when he commented and talked about how promising it was, it put it into overdrive.

There are more studies now (sample size is still small and it's not a controlled enough experiment) that have shown it hasn't been effective, and that's probably why the President isn't bring it up as much any more. Make sense. These studies aren't large enough controlled enough to say anything with certainty so it's anecdotal still.

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

A pilot study of hydroxychloroquine in treatment of patients with common coronavirus disease-19 (COVID-19)

COVID-19 treatment hydroxychloroquine showed no benefit, more deaths in VA virus study

We all want something to work so any small study or anecdotal evidence is being blown out of proportion to some extent.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

They are probably not happening because there apparently are some sort of restrictions prohibiting anyone having them. If so, that is a very potential First Amendment issue.

It may be "good idea" or "very beneficial" to ban such gatherings in the current situation, but if it's not absolutely necessary is that legal enough reason to ban the practice of religion?

Well, it depends on your definition of "practice"

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Chapel Hill family's dog tests positive for coronavirus; first known case in a dog in the US :: WRAL.com

 

[Lempo]

Well, it depends on your definition of "practice"

 

[Lempo]

She's not being denied her First Amendment right because Congress has not passed a law preventing her from practicing her religion, nor abridged her freedom of speech, nor denied her right to assemble or petition the government.

Just because churches are (rightfully) holding non-in-person services doesn't mean your religion has suddenly disappeared. And if she believes that, she probably wasn't very religious in the first place.

People who claim their 1st amendment rights are being violated almost always have no idea what they’re talking about.

Well if you're going to argument on the actual legal text on the Amendment...

Just to play the devout's advocate, maybe she really meant to mean that her (and everyone's) "freedom to assemble" has been infringed as per the 1st Amendment, and maybe she's the sort of person who want to (faultily) insist that "freedom of (Christian) religion" is the core right in the First Amendment, so that 1st is a "freedom of religion" amendment as far as she's concerned. Ultimately she's presenting a political claim masked as a legal/constitutional one. Very popular passtime nowadays in both ends of the political spectrum.

I don't know the legal setup, but if any of the restrictive measures in a state are based on a congress-passed law, then I'd argue one has the legal backstop to start asking if her constitutional rights are being infringed. There is obviously a long way to go before you can actually successfully press through a claim on that, but.

I mean, my folks are East Europeans with very bendy knees and about zero tradition in constitutional rights, and even my folks are having a serious discussion on whether our corona restrictions are infringing the basic rights. Obviously our setup is much simpler because there's but one legislative layer, but I don't think a US state can pass state laws conflicting with rights protected by the US constitution and its amendments.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

my folks are East Europeans

North Europeans.

You let the state into your lives yourselves.

 

[AD Skinner]

You can practice religion any old place in a group or by yourself. If this lady means she's being denied her right to peaceably assemble that would make more sense, but there are all sorts of rules about assembly and always have been.

Right to Peaceful Assembly: United States | Law Library of Congress

 

[Lempo]

North Europeans.

You let the state into your lives yourselves.

That's what we say to everyone in hope to be mistaken for West Europeans, but in reality our public servants run things with East European mentality on their part and with German vigor as far as the formalities are imposed onto the administrative subject.