Friedman: Corey Perry speculation. Perry to the Flames?

[imjustzach]

Consistent 60 point players don't finish with under 60 points in 3 of the last 4 years. Also his point point production has dropped in terms of per game in 2 of the last 3 years

To correct 405Exit, he's a consistent 50 point player, not 60 point. That being said, at 5m, a 50 point player puts Perry at around the same value as players like Tyler Johnson and Jordan Eberle (in terms of $/P). That's some good company to be in at that price point.

I'm not here to shoot down any trade proposals because even the most outlandish, hypothetical ones are always fun to see and I think many of us come to this forums is just to see what kind of ideas other people have. I just wanted to put into perspective what kind of value Perry at 5m would have.

 

[DavidBL]

To correct 405Exit, he's a consistent 50 point player, not 60 point. That being said, at 5m, a 50 point player puts Perry at around the same value as players like Tyler Johnson and Jordan Eberle (in terms of $/P). That's some good company to be in at that price point.

I'm not here to shoot down any trade proposals because even the most outlandish, hypothetical ones are always fun to see and I think many of us come to this forums is just to see what kind of ideas other people have. I just wanted to put into perspective what kind of value Perry at 5m would have.

I like the perspective. I would just add that retaining Salary and taking a bad contract doesn't make much sense either. It essentially means alloting the lesser player nearly the same money as Perry is making right now. Why pay 8 mill for a 25 pt player when we can just pay the 8 mill for the 50 pt player. We'd have to be getting a lot else back to make that worth while.

 

[madmike77]

Another high-priced, veteran winger in decline. Just what the Flames need!

 

[Bongsong]

Frolik + Brower

For

Perry

 

[JPeeper]

Bennett + for Perry?

Is this 2012 where Perry isn't completely broken down (I'm not suggesting Bennett has that much value, my point is Perry holds none)? At $8.6M for 3 more years Perry holds negative value. People think the Flames will trade a 22 year old forward with big potential for a 33 year old in decline?

Get real.

A muffin that someone dug out of your roommates couch has better sources and knowledge than the guys at the Fan 960.

 

[lwvs84]

Bennett + for Perry?

Is this 2012 where Perry isn't completely broken down (I'm not suggesting Bennett has that much value, my point is Perry holds none)? At $8.6M for 3 more years Perry holds negative value. People think the Flames will trade a 22 year old forward with big potential for a 33 year old in decline?

Get real.

A muffin that someone dug out of your roommates couch has better sources and knowledge than the guys at the Fan 960.

I think it would be Bennett (+?) for Perry with retention. At over 8 mil, Perry doesn't have much value. But at around 5-5.5? He's still an ok second line player. It's not like he's a 20 pt 3rd/4th liner making 8+ mil.

 

[JPeeper]

I think it would be Bennett (+?) for Perry with retention. At over 8 mil, Perry doesn't have much value. But at around 5-5.5? He's still an ok second line player. It's not like he's a 20 pt 3rd/4th liner making 8+ mil.

Yeah sure at retention of like $3 mil he is fine as a 2nd liner, but that's not the point. Why are the Flames trading a 22 year old player with potential (I know HF doesn't grasp this concept and think he is a bust, but no one has watched more than 20 minutes of him play so their "opinions" are all invalid) for a 33 year old. By the end of the 3 years the Flames have a 36 year old broken player and Anaheim has a 25 year year old who isn't even in his prime yet.

I'll take Bennett for the next 3 years+ than a broken, overpaid, declining Perry for the next 3.

 

[Mallard]

Perry only makes sense going to a real contender. Not a jab at the Flames at all but it just isn't a right fit for the Flames right now.

I think the best the Ducks could do, if they really really want to trade him, is $3M retention for a late 1st round pick.

 

[imjustzach]

Yeah sure at retention of like $3 mil he is fine as a 2nd liner, but that's not the point. Why are the Flames trading a 22 year old player with potential (I know HF doesn't grasp this concept and think he is a bust, but no one has watched more than 20 minutes of him play so their "opinions" are all invalid) for a 33 year old. By the end of the 3 years the Flames have a 36 year old broken player and Anaheim has a 25 year year old who isn't even in his prime yet.

I'll take Bennett for the next 3 years+ than a broken, overpaid, declining Perry for the next 3.

You might value Bennett over Perry and that's fine. We are all entitled to our own opinions. However, for the sake of discussion, I think it's unfair to say that Perry holds no value, especially at 5m.

He put up 49 points in 71 games this season which puts him solidly in 1st/2nd line production levels. That's producing at a higher clip than Ferland, your top line RW in his career year thus far. Perry has produced at a 50+ point pace since 2007.

It's important to keep in mind that his decline is from a 80 point player so even though the dropoff is significant, to completely dismiss his value is disingenuous. In fact, between this year and last year, his P/GP actually went up. You can make the argument that he will decline further and that's certainly a possibility. However you can't make that argument without also acknowledging that that Bennett may never be better than he is now given that he has yet to match his rookie year numbers. Both statements are purely speculative since none of us know how these players will perform in the future.

 

[lwvs84]

Yeah sure at retention of like $3 mil he is fine as a 2nd liner, but that's not the point. Why are the Flames trading a 22 year old player with potential (I know HF doesn't grasp this concept and think he is a bust, but no one has watched more than 20 minutes of him play so their "opinions" are all invalid) for a 33 year old. By the end of the 3 years the Flames have a 36 year old broken player and Anaheim has a 25 year year old who isn't even in his prime yet.

I'll take Bennett for the next 3 years+ than a broken, overpaid, declining Perry for the next 3.

That's fine for the Flames. But teams that feel they are true contenders would pay a Bennett level player for Perry at 5.5 mil. Over the next 3 years, Perry will likely put up more points than him. Flames are a lot younger team and may not be going for it in those 3 years, so it doesn't make sense for them... but in terms of value to a contender, it's there.

 

[CraigsList]

Perry only makes sense going to a real contender. Not a jab at the Flames at all but it just isn't a right fit for the Flames right now.

I think the best the Ducks could do, if they really really want to trade him, is $3M retention for a late 1st round pick.

What contender is going to add a winger on the downhill in their team? They would rather spend the money on someone better. I think for Perry, it would make sense for us to at least make a splash on him because we honestly do not have a RHS in the top 9. Perry would probably be our 2nd line RW.

 

[JPeeper]

You might value Bennett over Perry and that's fine. We are all entitled to our own opinions. However, for the sake of discussion, I think it's unfair to say that Perry holds no value, especially at 5m.

He put up 49 points in 71 games this season which puts him solidly in 1st/2nd line production levels. That's producing at a higher clip than Ferland, your top line RW in his career year thus far. Perry has produced at a 50+ point pace since 2007.

It's important to keep in mind that his decline is from a 80 point player so even though the dropoff is significant, to completely dismiss his value is disingenuous. In fact, between this year and last year, his P/GP actually went up. You can make the argument that he will decline further and that's certainly a possibility. However you can't make that argument without also acknowledging that that Bennett may never be better than he is now given that he has yet to match his rookie year numbers. Both statements are purely speculative since none of us know how these players will perform in the future.

Yeah, at high retention he has value, he still is a 2nd line player, I'm not arguing that. My point is at his full contract, he doesn't have value. Like Seabrook at 50% could be a servicable d-man, at his current contract he has negative value. I think Perry is way better than Seabrook though as well.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yeah, at high retention he has value, he still is a 2nd line player, I'm not arguing that. My point is at his full contract, he doesn't have value. Like Seabrook at 50% could be a servicable d-man, at his current contract he has negative value. I think Perry is way better than Seabrook though as well.

I don't think the + is anything significant like I said earlier in the thread

Bennet + Brouwer(4.5 a year for a 6 goal 22 point player)
for
Perry @ 7ish + 3rd(7 mil for 49 in 71 and a ton of experience), some sort of conditional pick based on bennets production , 3rd with condition on being a 2nd if he hits 50 points.

I think JG + Monahan + Perry is would be a pretty solid line, and 1 that perry could really do some dmg on, and if some of your young prospect dmen are ready you can look to flip a guy like Brodie maybe for some more help/depth up front. But its just ideas/speculations.... I highly doubt perry is moved but I think its a move like that where we might be able to move him... not necessarily the flames but the idea as a base. Perrys hands/shot/expierence is good enough that hell be at the very least a 20/50 guy production for the rest of this contract.

 

[Mallard]

What contender is going to add a winger on the downhill in their team? They would rather spend the money on someone better. I think for Perry, it would make sense for us to at least make a splash on him because we honestly do not have a RHS in the top 9. Perry would probably be our 2nd line RW.

Yeah that's true but I figured if let's say the Ducks have a shit year next year, then maybe a contender at TDL would take Perry at $5M for a 1st round pick. That team could very well be Calgary now that I think about it - but my point would be any team looking for some solid depth scoring (Perry has actually become quite a good playmaker these past few years) to take them over the top. Calgary could easily be that team by next TDL and I was not aware of Calgary's issue at RW. Looks like Perry could be a better fit on the Flames than I thought.

 

[Hockey Rush]

The only way I would take Perry on as the Calgary Flames is if they took Brouwer back. Ideally, you would try and get a bigger package so you can get Jacob Larssen or Marcus Pettersson. If Calgary actually had a desire to move Dougie Hamilton I could see Anaheim interested in having him as a partner for Lindholm. Now your talking a much bigger package though but something along the lines of:

CGY (Calgary would subtract 1.85 Million in salary)
Corey Perry (1.125 mill retained @ 7.5 over 3 remaining years )
Jacob Larssen @ 900k

ANA (Anaheim would add 2.975 Million in salary)
Dougie Hamilton @ 5.75 Million
Troy Brouwer @ 4.5 Million

Add whatever is required to consummate a deal. Anaheim has 3 million in cap space so they would remain cap compliant and they would get out of most of his contract. Anaheim then could look to move Brouwer to a team willing to take on a contract for an extra asset. Vancouver would probably take on that contract for a 2nd round pick. Works well for both teams. Paying Corey Perry anything over 7.5 million is just insane. He has lost his way. I personally think he's a tad old for Calgary but if they want a veteran he could be a good fit. Brouwer fits their rough and tough style. Could slot in with Kesler and move Rakal up with Getzlaf and crew. Food for thought. Jacob Larssen looks like a real good young player. He could easily be a solid top 4 contributor on the rear end. Not a bad type of player to add along with a veteran leader.

Tell me what you people think. I am just a Canucks fan. What do I know.

 

[Hockey Rush]

A Linholm - Hamilton pairing would be terrorizing. Follow that up with Fowler - Montour and suddenly Anaheim is big, fast, and scary.

Anaheim has kind of lost its speed and fear factor. They are old and slow. It's time to start transitioning 1 vet at a time. Move Perry then Kesler. I'd keep Getzlaf as you transition. A guy like Kesler could have some value at the deadline. If he's healthy I could see the Pens or Blue Jackets taking a flyer on him.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

The only way I would take Perry on as the Calgary Flames is if they took Brouwer back. Ideally, you would try and get a bigger package so you can get Jacob Larssen or Marcus Pettersson. If Calgary actually had a desire to move Dougie Hamilton I could see Anaheim interested in having him as a partner for Lindholm. Now your talking a much bigger package though but something along the lines of:

CGY (Calgary would subtract 1.85 Million in salary)
Corey Perry (1.125 mill retained @ 7.5 over 3 remaining years )
Jacob Larssen @ 900k

ANA (Anaheim would add 2.975 Million in salary)
Dougie Hamilton @ 5.75 Million
Troy Brouwer @ 4.5 Million

Add whatever is required to consummate a deal. Anaheim has 3 million in cap space so they would remain cap compliant and they would get out of most of his contract. Anaheim then could look to move Brouwer to a team willing to take on a contract for an extra asset. Vancouver would probably take on that contract for a 2nd round pick. Works well for both teams. Paying Corey Perry anything over 7.5 million is just insane. He has lost his way. I personally think he's a tad old for Calgary but if they want a veteran he could be a good fit. Brouwer fits their rough and tough style. Could slot in with Kesler and move Rakal up with Getzlaf and crew. Food for thought. Jacob Larssen looks like a real good young player. He could easily be a solid top 4 contributor on the rear end. Not a bad type of player to add along with a veteran leader.

Tell me what you people think. I am just a Canucks fan. What do I know.

Eh I think from an Anaheim perspective... Lindholm + Manson is already a pretty terrifying pairing... and if we trade perry we need to get someone that can potentially play forward for us.... Not to mention were adding salary to our cap situation + were still taking on a contract that is pretty close to if not worse than perrys.... and were losing arguably our top prospet in Larsson. I don't think we need dougie, not that hes not good but I'm perfectly okay with Lindholm - Manson, Montour - Fowler, Larsson/pettersson/welinski/mahura going forward. I also don't think the flames really need defense prospects don't they have 3 or 4 guys that should be pretty good going forward. The difference between Dougie and Manson prob isn't that much either way... manson had 37 points while being a +34 on a team that was only +19 goal differential... and basically no time on the powerplay, while being a physical presence and defensive beast.

Id still target
Bennet + brouwer

for

Perry + pick/prospect depending on what the flames prefer... and retention is based on the prospect/pick that the flames decide on.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

A Linholm - Hamilton pairing would be terrorizing. Follow that up with Fowler - Montour and suddenly Anaheim is big, fast, and scary.

Anaheim has kind of lost its speed and fear factor. They are old and slow. It's time to start transitioning 1 vet at a time. Move Perry then Kesler. I'd keep Getzlaf as you transition. A guy like Kesler could have some value at the deadline. If he's healthy I could see the Pens or Blue Jackets taking a flyer on him.

We were never a team based around speed... we played heavy

but our back end now that beauchmin/bieska are gone... will be 1 of the better skating back ends in the league.... up front obviously were going to need to find a way to get faster but getting rid of perry would help a bit, and then if the team just isn't clicking maybe we look at moving kesler at the deadline and start letting some of the young guys get looks.

 

[Senor Catface]

Friedman seems to speculate way more than he used to. I wonder if some of his sources cut him out, or moved on to other roles.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Friedman seems to speculate way more than he used to. I wonder if some of his sources cut him out, or moved on to other roles.

There is supposedly a little tension with BM and perry and likely RC... so I think the speculation is somewhat warranted but at the same time itll likely be a tough situation to move because I think he has a full ntc, + a high contract.

 

[Hockey Rush]

Eh I think from an Anaheim perspective... Lindholm + Manson is already a pretty terrifying pairing... and if we trade perry we need to get someone that can potentially play forward for us.... Not to mention were adding salary to our cap situation + were still taking on a contract that is pretty close to if not worse than perrys.... and were losing arguably our top prospet in Larsson. I don't think we need dougie, not that hes not good but I'm perfectly okay with Lindholm - Manson, Montour - Fowler, Larsson/pettersson/welinski/mahura going forward. I also don't think the flames really need defense prospects don't they have 3 or 4 guys that should be pretty good going forward. The difference between Dougie and Manson prob isn't that much either way... manson had 37 points while being a +34 on a team that was only +19 goal differential... and basically no time on the powerplay, while being a physical presence and defensive beast.

Id still target
Bennet + brouwer

for

Perry + pick/prospect depending on what the flames prefer... and retention is based on the prospect/pick that the flames decide on.

Fair. You guys do have a good D core for sure. Probably 2nd best at cycling in D next to Nashville. I'm not sure if Sam Bennett is your answer tho. Maybe tho. He might be a good linemate with your young C. What about any interest in Baerstchi, Granlund, or Gagner from Vancouver? (Van probably wouldn't want Perry but for something else)

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Fair. You guys do have a good D core for sure. Probably 2nd best at cycling in D next to Nashville. I'm not sure if Sam Bennett is your answer tho. Maybe tho. He might be a good linemate with your young C. What about any interest in Baerstchi, Granlund, or Gagner from Vancouver? (Van probably wouldn't want Perry but for something else)

I think sam bennet has a similar play style to perry and would fit well with Rakell and Getzlaf, while brouwer could play on Kesler Coglianos wing and form a pretty solid shut down line where his scoring is somewhat irrelevant as long as they are playing good shifts vs the other teams top players.

But to me on paper Getz Rakell Bennet could be a deadly line... and bennet ideally can become part of our future with rakell kase steel comtois jones Ritchie etc.


As for the players form Vancouver I honestly don't know much about any of them to judge them or know if they would be fits for us.

 

[Hockey Rush]

I think sam bennet has a similar play style to perry and would fit well with Rakell and Getzlaf, while brouwer could play on Kesler Coglianos wing and form a pretty solid shut down line where his scoring is somewhat irrelevant as long as they are playing good shifts vs the other teams top players.

But to me on paper Getz Rakell Bennet could be a deadly line... and bennet ideally can become part of our future with rakell kase steel comtois jones Ritchie etc.


As for the players form Vancouver I honestly don't know much about any of them to judge them or know if they would be fits for us.

I like your line of thinking. Does Calgary need Perry though? He seems like a good add for another team. Perhaps a Perry/Kessel swap would help both teams out?

 

[Spazkat]

But to me on paper Getz Rakell Bennet could be a deadly line... and bennet ideally can become part of our future with rakell kase steel comtois jones Ritchie etc.

Seems a bit ambitious to take a player coming off back to back 26 point seasons and be penciling him in on the top line. Bennett is literally the ginger version of Nick Ritchie, complete with endless stream of boneheaded penalties.


Also, I've yet to see a single logical reason anyone thinks Perry is going to waive for a lottery team

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Seems a bit ambitious to take a player coming off back to back 26 point seasons and be penciling him in on the top line. Bennett is literally the ginger version of Nick Ritchie, complete with endless stream of boneheaded penalties.


Also, I've yet to see a single logical reason anyone thinks Perry is going to waive for a lottery team

Idk watch him play a bit the talent is there