Cores/Teams that held on too long?

[sprongshowhky]

And forgoes either top draft picks or trading away multiple firsts in the quest to stay competitive?

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[DeysArena]

Mid-90s and early-2000s Leafs

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

90s Rangers. But it was a power struggle.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Dynasty Islanders. They ended up getting nothing for some of their core players. Potvin and Bossy retired, Gillies was waived and Trottier was bought out. By 1991 the team was atrocious and the next two decades were very dismal.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think 99% of cores hold on for too long

 

[Super Fadio Bro]

Early 10’s Red Wings

 

[Stephen]

The San Jose Sharks of the 2010s. Their window was already closed by the time they made the Erik Karlsson, and it looks like they still potentially owe Ottawa picks in 2021 and 2022.

 

[CHIMO]

Hahaha, this an easy one for me. The post-2009 Flames. It was an ugly time to be a Flames fan. We hung on to Iggy and Bouw a year or two too long and, as a result, got pretty meh returns when we did move them.

 

[Just Linda]

2019 Penguins.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Dynasty Islanders. They ended up getting nothing for some of their core players. Potvin and Bossy retired, Gillies was waived and Trottier was bought out. By 1991 the team was atrocious and the next two decades were very dismal.

In the Isles case it was a conscious decision. Torrey and Arbour knew that hanging on to them all would eventually cause the bottom to fall out but they felt they owed it to the players and fans to go as far they could for as long as they could.

They made the right choice. 5 straight finals in the 4 round era might never be done again.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Internally, this is more difficult than fans think. There's a real relationship there...and even if you go, "that's business", well, business is a bunch of relationships too...it's not a video game where you just click some buttons on a screen and the player goes away. There's so, so much involved. When I was 14 I faulted teams for not "getting something for a core veteran" kind of thing...not now though, not now that I've been around it a little bit...

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Internally, this is more difficult than fans think. There's a real relationship there...and even if you go, "that's business", well, business is a bunch of relationships too...it's not a video game where you just click some buttons on a screen and the player goes away. There's so, so much involved. When I was 14 I faulted teams for not "getting something for a core veteran" kind of thing...not now though, not now that I've been around it a little bit...

agreed.

Especially if the core in question has a Cup already, hard to blame management for thinking "if we can just add a piece we have a shot in the playoffs".

It's part of what makes someone like Bill Belichick so unique and great. He has never had a problem trading away a star player with some gas left in the tank. His motto has always been move to the young replacement 1-2 years too early rather than too late.

 

[ESH]

Hahaha, this an easy one for me. The post-2009 Flames. It was an ugly time to be a Flames fan. We hung on to Iggy and Bouw a year or two too long and, as a result, got pretty meh returns when we did move them.

The returns the Flames got for Iginla and Bouwmeester are brutal to look back at. The Iginla trade wasn’t even all that inspiring at the time. Feaster was a pretty bad GM looking back.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Joe Thornton/Patrick Marleau era San Jose.
Lots of regular season success, but only 1 trip to the cup finals over their prime span together between 2006 and 2018.

2009 to 2015 Detroit Red Wings.
Should have started the teardown in 2012 but looking at how poor we drafted between 2005 and 2012 I don't think it would have made too much of a difference. Lidstrom leaving should have been the signal. Instead, Holland and company decided to wait until the wheels completely fell off during the 2016-2017 season.

Post-Brett Hull Blues
Should have looked to blowup the team after Hull left. They had a couple very good regular seasons between 1998 and 2003 during the Quenneville era. But there just always seemed to be one or two elements missing to push them over the hump and put them in the Colorad/Detroit/Dallas territory.

1996 to 2001 Pittsburgh
As the game started to become more defensive this was a team that needed to be rebuilt to go with the era.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Joe Thornton/Patrick Marleau era San Jose.
Lots of regular season success, but only 1 trip to the cup finals over their prime span together between 2006 and 2018.

2009 to 2015 Detroit Red Wings.
Should have started the teardown in 2012 but looking at how poor we drafted between 2005 and 2012 I don't think it would have made too much of a difference. Lidstrom leaving should have been the signal. Instead, Holland and company decided to wait until the wheels completely fell off during the 2016-2017 season.

Post-Brett Hull Blues
Should have looked to blowup the team after Hull left. They had a couple very good regular seasons between 1998 and 2003 during the Quenneville era. But there just always seemed to be one or two elements missing to push them over the hump and put them in the Colorad/Detroit/Dallas territory.

1996 to 2001 Pittsburgh
As the game started to become more defensive this was a team that needed to be rebuilt to go with the era.

Pittsburgh is an interesting one. In a vacuum yes you're completely right. But that misstep probably saved the franchise and directly led to 3 Cups.

Without that error, the dont pick 5th, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st overall in consecutive drafts from 2002 to 2006, and dont have Crosby, Malkin, MAF, Staal, Whitney

 

[mrhockey193195]

90s Rangers. But it was a power struggle.

Hm. I actually disagree with this to some degree. I think the team should have re-signed Messier in 97 for another three years, and you wouldn't have seen the same drop off from Richter & Leetch had that happened. Pure conjecture on my part, but in particular I think Leetch's "decline" was largely due to Messier leaving and the spotlight being mainly on him.

Remove a few terrible moves (i.e., trading Zubov, trading Norstrom, etc.) and I think the team remains competitive through 2000.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Pittsburgh is an interesting one. In a vacuum yes you're completely right. But that misstep probably saved the franchise and directly led to 3 Cups.

Without that error, the dont pick 5th, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st overall in consecutive drafts from 2002 to 2006, and dont have Crosby, Malkin, MAF, Staal, Whitney

I don't know if it indirectly led to them getting 3 cups. They would have still had their post-Jagr collapse when he forced their hand. It would have made them a more competitive team in the east, that's for sure.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Hm. I actually disagree with this to some degree. I think the team should have re-signed Messier in 97 for another three years, and you wouldn't have seen the same drop off from Richter & Leetch had that happened. Pure conjecture on my part, but in particular I think Leetch's "decline" was largely due to Messier leaving and the spotlight being mainly on him.

Remove a few terrible moves (i.e., trading Zubov, trading Norstrom, etc.) and I think the team remains competitive through 2000.

Problem was Messier was declining fast inthe 97 playoffs. He looked lost those playoffs and uninterested during the end of the season. The rest of the league knew this too except for John McCaw who was gonna do evreything in his power to get him after losing out on Gretzky. Messiers attitude with upper management was also terrible in 97 too. For a guy who was only gonna average 20 goals a year it was worth letting him walk.

 

[The Panther]

Problem was Messier was declining fast inthe 97 playoffs. He looked lost those playoffs and uninterested during the end of the season.

That's right. Mess scored a great-sounding 84 points in 71 games (97-point pace, which, if reached, puts him tied for 4th in NHL scoring) in 1997, aged 36. That's incredible, actually (and matched Gretzky's scoring pace).

However, at the start of a road-trip on February 8th, 1997, Mess basically fell off the cliff -- forever, as it turned out. He scored a hat-trick that game, giving him 64 points in 50 games (105-point pace) to that point, with a +16.

For the rest of the season + playoffs, he scored 32 points in 36 games (73-point pace), and didn't look the same. This pace, btw, is pretty much exactly how he scored as a Canuck for the next three years.

Mess had come back from injuries before, as good as new, but at age 36 he couldn't turn the clock back anymore.


You're right, though. John McCain was nuts in that period. He was really the architect of the Canucks' decline into the crapper (not that fans weren't familiar with being there).

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

It's part of what makes someone like Bill Belichick so unique and great. He has never had a problem trading away a star player with some gas left in the tank. His motto has always been move to the young replacement 1-2 years too early rather than too late.

Hidden cameras and deflated footballs are part of what makes Belichick a dirtbag.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Hidden cameras and deflated footballs are part of what makes Belichick a dirtbag.

rent free

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

rent free

Giant fan, 2-0 versus the cheaters.

 

[buffalowing88]

Joe Thornton/Patrick Marleau era San Jose.
Lots of regular season success, but only 1 trip to the cup finals over their prime span together between 2006 and 2018.

2009 to 2015 Detroit Red Wings.
Should have started the teardown in 2012 but looking at how poor we drafted between 2005 and 2012 I don't think it would have made too much of a difference. Lidstrom leaving should have been the signal. Instead, Holland and company decided to wait until the wheels completely fell off during the 2016-2017 season.

Post-Brett Hull Blues
Should have looked to blowup the team after Hull left. They had a couple very good regular seasons between 1998 and 2003 during the Quenneville era. But there just always seemed to be one or two elements missing to push them over the hump and put them in the Colorad/Detroit/Dallas territory.

1996 to 2001 Pittsburgh
As the game started to become more defensive this was a team that needed to be rebuilt to go with the era.

Definitely agree about the Red Wings squad circa 2009-2015. They were a shell of themselves even when they were still making the playoffs.

Not so sure about the post-Hull Blues, though. I thought that team adopted a new identity around Pronger and MacInnis and to a lesser extent Tkachuk and Weight. They were a very, very good squad.

Also, absolutely agree about that turn of the century Pittsburgh team. Completely left in the dust style-wise.