Convince Me Talbot Is A Good Starter

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Your missing the point. Talbot isnt playing at a level that would allow most teams to make the playoffs. So far anyway.

There is absolutely a correlation to team defense and good goaltending. But even seperating the bad team play I dont see how anyone can watch Talbot currently and think this guy is winning us games with his play.

Two years ago Talbot was stealing games for us. This year he is treading water at best.

Waaaaay better than last year and showing promise but needs to be better.

Almost as if the team in front of him was also better two years ago.

It's clear that Talbot played over his head in 2016-17, however nothing was done to cushion the eventual fallback. Neither the defense nor the forwards were improved, and the backup duty fell to an upcoming but still unproven Brossoit.

It's a small sample size but Brossoit is currently 2-0 with a 2.00 GAA and a .955sv%. Surely those numbers won't last but it's a testament to a better team in front of him limiting chances. As I watched the game last night in the stands, during the final five minutes Washington was relentless in the offensive zone and could've very easily tied the game because the Oilers had no answer for their cycle or forecheck. Whenever the Oilers did finally get the puck back they would ring it around the boards, most likely to a waiting Cap. It was distressing to watch the same breakout attempted over and over again with zero success.

Talbot hasn't played amazingly to start the year for sure but neither has the team in front of him, especially when they basically gave up during the first two games of the season.

 

[Throttlehead]

Prove it wrong then.

We've had a more consecutive string of below average dmen than anything else "consecutive". GDT you whine on every iffy goal on how bad Talbot is, then crickets when he plays lights out. What you noticed last game (maybe you didn't notice) was we played pretty good team defence, and therefor Talbot also had a good game. If your goalie has to win every game, you're not going anywhere. So far this season Talbot has been ok.

 

[TheNumber4]

Laurent Brossoit : 3-0 , .957 save percentage
Devan Dubnyk: 7-1, .946 save percentage

I'm guessing the same people who ran those goalies out of town are now running Talbot out of town. Team defence matters when evaluating goalies. When will people finally understand this?

 

[48g90a138pts]

Laurent Brossoit : 3-0 , .957 save percentage
Devan Dubnyk: 7-1, .946 save percentage

I'm guessing the same people who ran those goalies out of town are now running Talbot out of town. Team defence matters when evaluating goalies. When will people finally understand this?

When a team does a complete teardown and rebuild you build from the backend out. The Oilers, the opposite.

As we witnessed, the temptation of the 1st OV three year's in a row was too great to trade down and build from the D out.

Oh well I guess, we got McDavid. But we're paying for it now.

You're right, the defense in front of the goalie makes a bigger difference than the goalie himself. On the other hand, our D is pretty young and can improve going forward.

 

[TheNumber4]

When a team does a complete teardown and rebuild you build from the backend out. The Oilers, the opposite.

As we witnessed, the temptation of the 1st OV three year's in a row was too great to trade down and build from the D out.

Oh well I guess, we got McDavid. But we're paying for it now.

You're right, the defense in front of the goalie makes a bigger difference than the goalie himself. On the other hand, our D is pretty young and can improve going forward.

Yeh my comments were more about the Oilers lack of defence in general for the last 10 or so years. There's a slim glimmer of hope they could be decent soon despite Chia not really doing much to address the issue. Bouchard can be a huge upgrade on Benning. And Gravel looks like he can play steady.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

When a team does a complete teardown and rebuild you build from the backend out. The Oilers, the opposite.

As we witnessed, the temptation of the 1st OV three year's in a row was too great to trade down and build from the D out.

Oh well I guess, we got McDavid. But we're paying for it now.

You're right, the defense in front of the goalie makes a bigger difference than the goalie himself. On the other hand, our D is pretty young and can improve going forward.

At this point the issue isn't the mistakes of the rebuild it's the bad trades and signings of the last few years.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

That's fine for you to have that opinion. It certainly works for some goalies. Down early generally means exposed top corners and down late means five-hole exposure. There is no right answer and it's an individual thing that you work on with your goalie coach. Like any other tactical decision a goalie makes there are pros and cons that are individual. The point is to fit tactics to 1) player strength and 2) situation.

My point with Talbot are:
1) He's a great skater and a big man... which is a nice combination. The top corner exposure he would experience if he uses those two strengths will be far less than an equal-skating 5'9 guy. Thus the decision to be down more than most might well be deliberate AND correct given his strengths
2) You need to watch that goal again... I did, about 10 times yesterday when someone rightly pointed out the rebound was of Talbot's doing. (there are reasons why he did that that are beside the point... posted elsewhere)... but once you do watch it, I don't know how you can say that he saw that puck. There were literally 3 oilers in parts of that lane, plus a Penguin who vacated immediately as the shot was taken. No way he had a good look which is evidence of his reaction. A goalie lifting his glove in exasperation (which Talbot RARELY does) is a definite tell. Given limited sight, 10 out of 10 goalie coaches will tell you to get in the butterfly and stay big. So TACTICALLY he did exactly the right thing on that aspect of the play.

As promised in yesterday's post, I reviewed the second Oleksiak goal. Sorry, I still fault Talbot for going down instead of standing up.

The reason for it, is I focused on Talbot's positioning and "body language" so to speak. As the puck deflects out front and skips into the slot, his set position doesn't change. Most importantly, his head doesn't move, it stays stationary which tells me he wasn't trying to peek above, below or to the side of players in front of him and had a clear line of sight. As he sees Oleksiak stepping into the shot, he begins to drop to his knees. I'm still of the opinion if he stays standing, he makes that save.

We'll call it agree to disagree as it was two games ago now and the results are the results from that game.

 

[BlackDogg]

I really didn't like the replay of Crosby's OT hilite goal. Talbot seemed to move so slow across the crease and didn't even come close to making the save and it makes Crosby look like a genius. If Talbot stops that we never see that play again. Just didn't look right that night.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Watch his last 2 starts.

 

[LTIR]

Watch his last 2 starts.

Hey now... Maybe the OP is expecting him to be Mike Smith good.

 

[PinSeeker]

Watch his last 2 starts.

He has rebounded really well. Great to see

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

He has rebounded really well. Great to see

Gotta admit, I was really worried if he could bounce back after that Pittsburgh game. He showed some great mental fortitude & very happy for him & the team.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Koskinen having a big game can only help Talbot to keep focused IMO.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

I don't get these posts. Why do I have to convince you that he's good? the onus is on you to prove that he's bad.

Why do I need to waste my time arguing against your nonsense without even a baseline of just how badly misinformed you are.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Since when are opposition fans allowed to start troll threads on our board. This seems not to have been noticed but this is quite clearly a Winnipeg fan trolling our board. Clean up in aisle 9.

 

[GMofOilers]

2 games doesn’t take away last year.

I have been saying since we signed Koskinen to the contract he would take over.

His biggest weakness is letting in multiple goals in a short period of time.

 

[TheNumber4]

Lo and behold our entire team plays better these last couple games defensively and offensively (which adds to defence) and Talbot looks to be back to 16-17 form and our backup even looked good.

I'm telling you Oilers fans, stop cutting bait on our talent without look at the big picture. Goalies will always look bad behind a crappy team. You could have put prime Patrick Roy behind Auvitu, Benning, Gryba, and an injured Klefbom last year and he would have looked like crap.

 

[redgrant]

Having a good game and sucking right after doesn't = good goalie.

 

[GMofOilers]

After 10 games played once again at the bottom of the league in GAA and Save%

Imagine our record with average goaltending?

Time for Koskinen to take over the teams starting position.

 

[PinSeeker]

In a vacuum I wouldn't have a problem with his game tonight. But here we are again seeing an opposing goaltender outplaying Talbot. One cannot argue that fact.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Laurent Brossoit : 3-0 , .957 save percentage
Devan Dubnyk: 7-1, .946 save percentage

I'm guessing the same people who ran those goalies out of town are now running Talbot out of town. Team defence matters when evaluating goalies. When will people finally understand this?

This is one player I disagree with. He wasn't dealt from Edmonton to Minny and became Vezina material. He was dealt to Nashville and Mitch Korn couldn't fix him. Trotz is on record saying he had way too many issues/bad habits in his game that needed fixing. He was dealt to Montreal and finished the season in the AHL where in 8 games with the Bulldogs he had a 3.33 GAA and sub .900 save percentage.

He signed with Arizona for something around $800 K or so and that's when he took the onus on him realizing if he didn't improve, this was his last shot in the NHL. That is when he took the head trajectory technique training in the off season and re-invented his game. Arizona dealt him to Minny for whatever reason even though he was rocking better numbers than Mike Smith and became a decent NHL starting goalie.

Yes, the team in front of any NHL goalie plays a part of it but no team plays a perfect NHL team defense for 82 games where the goalie only needs to make routine saves.

 

[Oilfan2]

In a vacuum I wouldn't have a problem with his game tonight. But here we are again seeing an opposing goaltender outplaying Talbot. One cannot argue that fact.

Rarely do goaltenders 'outplay each other. It's almost always a team effort or lack thereof.

The Oilers have had a very poor defensive system for years and that still continues.

Does anyone really believe, after watching the 'swarm pull themselves together on the PK, that's how you play a good defensive system?

On one of the Wild PP's, I was actually surprised they didn't score sooner. At one point, all 4 Oiler players were near the right boards against 3 Wild players. It left the Wild D available to walk in and left Zucker alone in front of the net. They were just lucky the puck didn't 'squirt out of the scrum.

No, something is definitely wrong with this defensive system. Talbot is a good goalie and running him out of town would be a mistake. Fix the gd system...whether that's changing players or not, I don't know.

 

[PinSeeker]

Rarely do goaltenders 'outplay each other. It's almost always a team effort or lack thereof.

...what? Of course goaltenders play better than other goaltenders. Perhaps my wording was confusing, but your above statement is incorrect. So Mike Condon's goal against from the other end of the rink was a "lack of team effort"?

No one is running Cam out of town but he needs to be better, like many others on the squad.

 

[TheNumber4]

This is one player I disagree with. He wasn't dealt from Edmonton to Minny and became Vezina material. He was dealt to Nashville and Mitch Korn couldn't fix him. Trotz is on record saying he had way too many issues/bad habits in his game that needed fixing. He was dealt to Montreal and finished the season in the AHL where in 8 games with the Bulldogs he had a 3.33 GAA and sub .900 save percentage.

He signed with Arizona for something around $800 K or so and that's when he took the onus on him realizing if he didn't improve, this was his last shot in the NHL. That is when he took the head trajectory technique training in the off season and re-invented his game. Arizona dealt him to Minny for whatever reason even though he was rocking better numbers than Mike Smith and became a decent NHL starting goalie.

Yes, the team in front of any NHL goalie plays a part of it but no team plays a perfect NHL team defense for 82 games where the goalie only needs to make routine saves.

I’m well aware of Devans travels after leaving Edmonton and I do remember the narrative being he needed to work on his game. What’s funny is that he had 3 years of good goaltending for the Oilers before he shat the bed. 3 years of over .915 goaltending. So what? For one year he totally forgot how to play goal or what?

Look at the goalies in the NHL today. Even some vets and premier goalies have down periods, and some lesser goalies can have hot streaks. The reason being is because the goalie position is very mental and based on confidence.

I don’t know how much confidence Dubnyk could have had with Dallas Eakins ineffective swarm defence combined with a defence crew that featured non NHLer Belov, non NHLer Larsen, non NHLer Marincin, non NHLer Fraser, non NHLer Potter, future non NHLers N.Schultz and Ference, and rookies in Klefbom and J Schultz it was just a revolving door of shit D men that year. I beleive this year destroyed Dubnyk confidence to the point where he questioned everything about his game, to finally regain that confidence he had to go through multiple orgs and coaches to finally feel like he had fixed his game leading to his confidence coming back.

If the org could have found a way to put a legit NHL D and a competent coach in front of him that year, I’d say the odds are he’d have just continued his decent play in Edmonton.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Didn't like the 4th goal on Talbot
it was a good shot but Talbot was down too quickly

bottom line though is Stalock outplayed him