News Article: Contract talks for Senators’ Matt Duchene: update - no numbers [Part 2]

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Private health care in the US is a hell of a lot better than the covered system in Canada.

*The service quality for those that can access it is all I meant. Health Care is a human right imo.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Totall irrelevant when you’re making an 8 figure salary. You can buy in cash a penthouse overlooking Central Park, or a beach house in Malibu, or a mid century modern case study house in Bel Air, a 20 acre ranch in Texas, a mountain chalet in Colorado, a Victorian mansion in Vancouver on that kind of money with millions still in the bank and millions more to come. They can eat at Nobu 7x a week for the rest of their lives and not have to think twice. Ottawa as a city does not have even close to the level of amenities other cities have. Sorry to bash your city (Its mine too, I have lived here 30 years), but it’s just the way it is.

It isn't bashing, it's stating the truth: Ottawa is a decent, unremarkable town with very little to offer to the very rich. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[branch]

Private health care in the US is a hell of a lot better than the covered system in Canada.

You can get private healthcare in Canada as well, and it is outstanding if you can afford it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You can get private healthCanada as well, and it is outstanding if you can afford it.

True, and I can't, but from what I understand there are more limitations and obstacles because of the veiled attempt to keep things from looking like a two tier system that we all know exists for the priviliged over the heathens.

 

[bert]

Let's be honest, is anyone genuinely surprised? Or are we all just shaking our heads at ourselves for believing that we actually tried to get something done.

I cant believe anyone with the information and recent track record available of the sens would actually believe.

A - That Duchene and or Stone are going to sign here.

B - That the sens actually made a serious offer.

Its all smoke and mirrors, Melnyk doesnt have the money. Its propeganda they want people to believe its possible so they will still go to the games. What is actually happening is they will wait to the last minute then trade them for scraps while claiming they tried their best to re-sign them. Then place all the blame on the players.

 

[umma gumma]

I cant believe anyone with the information and recent track record available of the sens would actually believe.

A - That Duchene and or Stone are going to sign here.

B - That the sens actually made a serious offer.

Its all smoke and mirrors, Melnyk doesnt have the money. Its propeganda they want people to believe its possible so they will still go to the games. What is actually happening is they will wait to the last minute then trade them for scraps while claiming they tried their best to re-sign them. Then place all the blame on the players.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Silencio]

All those factors (Nobus, palm trees, gated communities) do matter to players and we'd be naive to think otherwise. Ultimately though it almost always comes down to winning. Free agents sure as hell weren't signing in Pittsburgh or Detroit for the amenities.

 

[Silencio]

Unless you're Ilya Kovalchuk, who appears to base his free agency decisions entirely on which American cities have the largest metro populations.

 

[coladin]

In Ottawa with the same money as elsewhere an NHL player could buy a house on the water, drive 10 mins to the rink and have access to both the downtown style or the country life. Out of the list of 30 places there, how many could you do that in for the same dollar? Think someone can get that lifestyle in Toronto, New York, LA without paying 5x as much? People always say taxes matter and they do but so does cost of living and other life things.

Not sure where you get that in those cities, and traffic is horrific in all of those markets. But to each their own. Like I stated earlier, Matt Duchene drove to his hometown for the break. Those are good factors, on top of Ottawa being one of the best places to raise a family. Duchene is a family man now, and Stone will be as well, one would think. The Turrises loved living here, and Karlsson says Ottawa will be his permanent home.

Hockey is cyclical, and things can turn within a year or two here. Look at the Islanders, Buffalo (struggling right now) , and other markets that are turning the corner.

 

[coladin]

Exactly.

When you can afford insane private healthcare, live in a gated community with other millionares and can take a limo to work everyday it doesn't really matter where you live. The rich have it good everywhere.

It comes down to lifestyle of choice. Do you wanna raise a family in a quiet, safe suburban environment with middle class people? Do you wanna live it up large in mega cities with the elite of the elite? Or do you wanna live somewhere warm, near the ocean? Or do you wanna put everything aside for a chance to win the cup?

Players will take as much money as they can first and foremost, then choose whatever option and lifestyle they like second.

I really think winning a cup isn't the most important factor for the majority of NHL players.

In Ottawa, the thing is you don't have to live in a gated community.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Not sure where you get that in those cities, and traffic is horrific in all of those markets. But to each their own. Like I stated earlier, Matt Duchene drove to his hometown for the break. Those are good factors, on top of Ottawa being one of the bets places to raise a family. Duchene is a family man now, and Stone will be as well, one would think. The Turrises loved living hear, and Karlsson says Ottawa will be his permanent home.

Hockey is cyclical, and things can turn within a year or two here. Look at the Islanders, Buffalo (struggling right now) , and other markets that are turning the corner.

You're right. Kyle Turris had 3 kids in Ottawa and was the definition of a "family-man". Erik Karlsson's extended family is from here, and he hasn't been shy about saying that this is his home.

But neither of them signed an extension to stay here, because bad management and no shot at winning trumped living in the city.

Why are Stone and Duchene going to be any different?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

You're right. Kyle Turris had 3 kids in Ottawa and was the definition of a "family-man". Erik Karlsson's extended family is from here, and he hasn't been shy about saying that this is his home.

But neither of them signed an extension to stay here, because bad management and no shot at winning trumped living in the city.

Why are Stone and Duchene going to be any different?

Because we're a team.

 

[The Lewler]

You're right. Kyle Turris had 3 kids in Ottawa and was the definition of a "family-man". Erik Karlsson's extended family is from here, and he hasn't been shy about saying that this is his home.

But neither of them signed an extension to stay here, because bad management and no shot at winning trumped living in the city.

Why are Stone and Duchene going to be any different?

Because reasons. It was all a ruse by Turris and Karlsson. They didn't really mean it. If they were any kind of men at all they would have taken the first offers, because they were so fair and insanely generous.

 

[pzeeman]

You're right. Kyle Turris had 3 kids in Ottawa and was the definition of a "family-man". Erik Karlsson's extended family is from here, and he hasn't been shy about saying that this is his home.

But neither of them signed an extension to stay here, because bad management and no shot at winning trumped living in the city.

Why are Stone and Duchene going to be any different?

Because different people have different priorities?

 

[DaveMatthew]

Because different people have different priorities?

Sure. Duchene's priority is winning, as he's said in countless interviews over the last 2.5 seasons in Colorado and Ottawa.

But I suppose that's changed because he has a 3.5 hour drive to his childhood home...

Toronto's closer to Halburton than Ottawa, maybe he'll just sign there. He can win AND be close to home!

 

[BonkTastic]

Colorado was Duchene's boyhood favorite team, and Sakic his favorite player. He got drafted by his dream team, and ended up working for his idol. He still demanded a trade, eventually.

I really want the team to keep Duchene, but I'm also aware of the context of the conditions that are going to require him to stay, and realistically I think this is an uphill battle for the team. It's doable in general, but it'll be tough, IMO. I don't think "playing close to home" is the ace-in-the-hole we have on our side that some fans are hoping for.

 

[pzeeman]

Sure. Duchene's priority is winning, as he's said in countless interviews over the last 2.5 seasons in Colorado and Ottawa.

But I suppose that's changed because he has a 3.5 hour drive to his childhood home...

Is that so far fetched?
And that's not the only thing OTT has going for it. Here he'll be the #1 center for the forseeable future. Is that true for the "winning" team? Perhaps he doesn't see the Senators as being that far off?
If PD comes in with a fair total number, but the bonuses or movement clauses are bit short of what the open market would get him, is there enough going on here to get his name on the dotted line? I like to think that's the "bigger picture" conversation Brisson talked about a couple weeks ago - how much are the Senator's unique benefits worth? Do they overcome the organizational and financial/stability drawbacks? There's only one person who can answer that question.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Is that so far fetched?
And that's not the only thing OTT has going for it. Here he'll be the #1 center for the forseeable future. Is that true for the "winning" team? Perhaps he doesn't see the Senators as being that far off?
If PD comes in with a fair total number, but the bonuses or movement clauses are bit short of what the open market would get him, is there enough going on here to get his name on the dotted line? I like to think that's the "bigger picture" conversation Brisson talked about a couple weeks ago - how much are the Senator's unique benefits worth? Do they overcome the organizational and financial/stability drawbacks? There's only one person who can answer that question.

Knowing what we know, I think it is farfetched. Duchene might, in the end, think differently, but at this point, we can only speculate.

Just a year and a half ago, Matt Duchene was adamant that he wanted to be part of a winner and had no interest in being part of rebuild. That's why he asked for a trade, despite being on a team that had a very positive future outlook (MacKinnon was 20, Rantanen was 19, Landeskog was 23, Makar was just drafted). He looked at that core, and still decided they were too far off from being a contender.

Now, he's looking at a core of Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, etc. That's certainly not better than what the Avalanche had, so if he thought Colorado was far off, Ottawa is lightyears away from contending.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

In Ottawa, the thing is you don't have to live in a gated community.

Rich people tend to enjoy living far away from the rest of the plebe. Gated communities aren't only about protecting themselved from the poor, its also about keeping the tribe together.

 

[aragorn]

Ottawa seems to be stuck between an owner who seems to be having financial difficulties to the point where they may not be able to afford keeping all of their high priced talent. In the case of both Turris & EK it seems to have come down to money & this organization not being able to afford keeping them & now they have the same problem with Duchene & Stone. Most I think believe that Stone will be re-signed but whether this owner has enough financial clout to also keep Duchene & Dzingel to a lesser extent is questionable.

I don't think it comes down to all of the other variables although some have some influence but for most players it comes down to negotiating the best contract possible. For both these guys this is the contract that should set them up for life both in dollar amounts & in term, enough money for them & their families to live comfortably for the remainder of their lives. While the fame of winning a cup is certainly something that players have dreamed for all their lives, they are all old enough to know now & have parents & the best agents in the world telling them the importance of this contract with whatever team is willing to give them the amount they think the market has established for their services. So we should not expect a hometown discount, loyalty to a city or any other arbitrary expectation when all they are trying to do is set themselves & their families up for life which IMO trumps everything else. The highest bidder needs to be this team to retain these players.

If this owner cannot afford to keep these guys he should sell the franchise but he's also a stubborn SOB who may think that better days are ahead & he just needs to hang on for a while longer. Who knows, we are at a crossroads which can go either way IMO into continued disrepair or the young prospects they have start to play better hockey & start to contend which could bring back more fans. Winning is the cure but do they have the players to do that within the next few yrs, that's the question? They have some, but they will need to hit another home run or two in the 2020 draft with two first rd selections, so far. They need a couple of yrs of positive feedback to overcome the negative environment this owner has created, they need a new start.

 

[BondraTime]

There just so much going against the Sens, I hope he stays, but I'm not sure why he would.

This is MY pro and con list, from what I would view from Duchenes mindset. Obviously it would differ for others and likely Duchene.

Ottawa Pros
-Able to offer an 8th year
-Able to offer a letter
-Able to offer the #1C
-Great place to live
-Childhood home is 4 hours away
-Young team
-Just had a baby

Ottawa Cons
-Can't compete financially
-They are dead last in the league right now, and seem to be within a position or 2 of where they will finish the year.
-Won't be getting the young star teams that struggle like the Sens have do at the draft
-They have young prospects, no doubt. But they only have 1 star guy in Chabot, after that they have some very nice pieces that aren't uncommon among the rest of the teams in NHL.
-Possibly selling more off at the deadline
-GM stated as loudly as anyone they could for anyone to listen that they were in a rebuild, First thing I said upon arrival was I couldn't handle another rebuild.
-All the bad press and incidents since the day I arrived
-Teams future aspects uncertain
-2 other best players are set to be UFA, Sens don't seem to be in the market to keep them all
-I've only been here for a year, don't have anything set in the ground

UFA pros
-Teans always overpay for guys, I will be the top C on the market
-I get to choose where I play
-I will be on a team in a better situation
-Will be able to find a great place to live
-Lockout bonus
-Better contract structure

UFA cons
-Can only sign 7 years
-Possibility I may not have the options I want
-Potential injury after the deadline
-Team I choose decides to rebuild shortly into my contract

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Rich people tend to enjoy living far away from the rest of the plebe. Gated communities aren't only about protecting themselved from the poor, its also about keeping the tribe together.

Absolutely. I've read some really interesting things on the psychology of what being extremely wealthy can do to many people, especially from a young age where no hardship is experienced or hard work is required. We joke about trust fund babies being narcisistic sociopaths in society, but there's absolutely a reason they are the way they are. Many have such a jaded reality that they do not want to be interspersed with those they feel are not worthy and really do see themselves as a superior being to average or poor people. Pro sports players seem to be more of a mixed bag though. On one hand they have been idolized and catered too most of their lives starting at a young age during such important development years. On the other hand, their parents and relatives often have humble beginnings and the unconditional love messes with the superiority complex many wealthy people have.

Interesting stuff and I'm sure many of us have seen this first hand.

 

[OmniSens]

You're right. Kyle Turris had 3 kids in Ottawa and was the definition of a "family-man". Erik Karlsson's extended family is from here, and he hasn't been shy about saying that this is his home.

But neither of them signed an extension to stay here, because bad management and no shot at winning trumped living in the city.

Why are Stone and Duchene going to be any different?

Why did Alfie stay?

 

[GrantLemons]

Why did Alfie stay?

Because the team was good.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

In Ottawa, the thing is you don't have to live in a gated community.

A lot of people don't look at gated communities as bad things