Connor McDavid vs Jack Eichel - Round V

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Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
He is on pace for just 41 points. Considering the ridiculous expectations coming in (considered a generational prospect, saying his playing style should adapt easily to the NHL, would be the #1 pick in every draft if McDavid wasn't there, etc) he hasn't lived up to expectations...YET.


41 points is almost half of what the NHL scoring leader had a year ago.

25 goals and 41 points and nearly 300 shots as a 19-year-old rookie is outstanding production for a center on a team that isnt lousy anymore, and he's part of the reason why.

The narrative that he must be a PPG rookie and be neck and neck with McDavid in order to validate the pre-draft hype is beyond moronic.
 

Rebuilt

Registered User
Jun 8, 2014
8,736
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Jack Eichel does not see the ice the same way as Mc David nor is he the same player. He is a franchise center.

He will hit 40-45 points this year, 65-70 the next and be an 80 + guy after that. Especially if the Sabres can manage to find some wingers to enhance his style.

Mc David is a generational player. In spite of playing with Yakupov and Pouliot , being physically immature, and having no previous access to the mens game, he got 12 points in 11 games before being robbed of a point in his 12th game on a challenge and being injured in the 13th.

Now, in all fairness, these are 2 separate class of players. There are other rookies right now out performing Eichel for christs sakes. Larkin for one whom is the same age.
 

Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
After all the bragging and posturing we saw from the Usual Suspects; after all the "Eichel plays against men while McDavid plays against children" comments (never questioning the quality of those men); after all the Eichel is Generational boasting; after all the Eichel is as good as McDavid talk...

McDavid. McDavid is the standard.

And it is just not me - I just happen to be the one who best articulates the hypocrisy of the other side.

**

My beef is not with you DM23 - I never saw you over hyping this kid. You should not have to be on the receiving end of the wrath. It is just too bad it has come to this. It wouldn't have if Eichel apologist had been even the slightest bit objective. Sadly, it just seemed the less well Eichel performed, the louder they shouted, the more they revised history and the uglier it got.

I will give you the last word, DM. I keep getting pulled into this silliness and I need to move on.

Completely understand.

If I could offer both sides some advice -- we're not even close to the statute of limitations on this debate.

You all should probably wait a while.
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
31,862
11,990
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Maybe by December.

For a "generational" talent he only has 9 points in 18 games. He was -2 tonight and pointless in his last 3 games.

Hell, Tobias Rieder has more points in the same amount of games.

Joe Thornton had 7 points in his rookie year, and was seen as close to generational, if not. And one could argue he has been, aside from cup wins. It's a rookie. In less than 20 games.
 

McFlyingV

Registered User
Feb 22, 2013
22,442
12,858
Edmonton, Alberta
Blatant bias because McDavid plays for your team.

Have you watched a lot of Sabres games to say that Eichel hasn't created something and been dangerous every time he's on the ice?

Call it what you want. I've watched 5 or 6 Sabres games this year and Eichel has looked good, but he hasn't even looked close to McDavid. He's shown flashes that McDavid does several times every night. McDavid has outperformed Eichel on every stage they've ever been on, and I was drooling at the thought of Edmonton getting either player last season when they were sitting in last place. The reason for that is they will both be stars in this league, and the oilers desperately needed a star centre at the time. But to claim that Eichel is or ever has been close to McDavid to the point where they're considered in the same tier of player/prospect is laughable. You can claim that all you'd like, but the people claiming the gap between the two was small were always wrong. The gap isn't enormous, but its definitely close to a prime Crosby vs. prime Tavares gap. Don't worry you'll see it soon enough when McDavid returns from injury and still finishes with more points than Eichel.
 

McFlyingV

Registered User
Feb 22, 2013
22,442
12,858
Edmonton, Alberta
Jack Eichel does not see the ice the same way as Mc David nor is he the same player. He is a franchise center.

He will hit 40-45 points this year, 65-70 the next and be an 80 + guy after that. Especially if the Sabres can manage to find some wingers to enhance his style.

Mc David is a generational player. In spite of playing with Yakupov and Pouliot , being physically immature, and having no previous access to the mens game, he got 12 points in 11 games before being robbed of a point in his 12th game on a challenge and being injured in the 13th.

Now, in all fairness, these are 2 separate class of players. There are other rookies right now out performing Eichel for christs sakes. Larkin for one whom is the same age.

2 points actually if you have a set of working eyes that apparently everyone in Toronto's war room doesn't. ;)
 

obey86

Registered User
Jun 9, 2009
8,013
1,274
41 points is almost half of what the NHL scoring leader had a year ago.

25 goals and 41 points and nearly 300 shots as a 19-year-old rookie is outstanding production for a center on a team that isnt lousy anymore, and he's part of the reason why.

The narrative that he must be a PPG rookie and be neck and neck with McDavid in order to validate the pre-draft hype is beyond moronic.

Sorry dude, when you are seen as this unheard of talent in the last 15 years (outside of like Crosby and McDavid) expectations are raised. 40 points is a nice rookie season for someone like Dylan Larkin. Eichel is on a different level than someone like Larkin, and should be held to a higher standard. 40 points after all the offseason hype of him being NHL ready and how he would dominate right out of the gate would be a huge disappointment.

And btw, the Sabres are still pretty lousy. Bottom 10 in the league in points and 6th worst goal differential. They are better than last season but outside of purposely losing again, it would be hard not to be.
 

Mattilaus

Registered User
Sep 12, 2014
7,176
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Beyond the Wall
Sorry dude, when you are seen as this unheard of talent in the last 15 years (outside of like Crosby and McDavid) expectations are raised. 40 points is a nice rookie season for someone like Dylan Larkin. Eichel is on a different level than someone like Larkin, and should be held to a higher standard. 40 points after all the offseason hype of him being NHL ready and how he would dominate right out of the gate would be a huge disappointment.

And btw, the Sabres are still pretty lousy. Bottom 10 in the league in points and 6th worst goal differential. They are better than last season but outside of purposely losing again, it would be hard not to be.

100% agree, 3rd line C at best. Sabres will probably finish dead last and draft 2nd over all again.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Apr 27, 2005
33,463
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After all the bragging and posturing we saw from the Usual Suspects; after all the "Eichel plays against men while McDavid plays against children" comments (never questioning the quality of those men); after all the Eichel is Generational boasting; after all the Eichel is as good as McDavid talk...

McDavid. McDavid is the standard.

And it is just not me - I just happen to be the one who best articulates the hypocrisy of the other side.

**

My beef is not with you DM23 - I never saw you over hyping this kid. You should not have to be on the receiving end of the wrath. It is just too bad it has come to this. It wouldn't have if Eichel apologist had been even the slightest bit objective. Sadly, it just seemed the less well Eichel performed, the louder they shouted, the more they revised history and the uglier it got.

I will give you the last word, DM. I keep getting pulled into this silliness and I need to move on.

Must be exhausting. Building up all those strawmen and then unleashing your "wrath" upon them. Lol.
 

Bixby Snyder

IBTFAD
May 11, 2005
3,495
1,629
Albuquerque
www.comc.com
After all the bragging and posturing we saw from the Usual Suspects; after all the "Eichel plays against men while McDavid plays against children" comments (never questioning the quality of those men); after all the Eichel is Generational boasting; after all the Eichel is as good as McDavid talk...

McDavid. McDavid is the standard.

And it is just not me - I just happen to be the one who best articulates the hypocrisy of the other side.

**

My beef is not with you DM23 - I never saw you over hyping this kid. You should not have to be on the receiving end of the wrath. It is just too bad it has come to this. It wouldn't have if Eichel apologist had been even the slightest bit objective. Sadly, it just seemed the less well Eichel performed, the louder they shouted, the more they revised history and the uglier it got.

I will give you the last word, DM. I keep getting pulled into this silliness and I need to move on.

So people should have a wrath unleashed upon them for having a differing opinion from you? What about people who hyped Stamkos and Tavares as generational talents, should they be at the receiving end of your wrath?
Seriously you have the rationality of someone who would be better off posting on a Justin Bieber fan forum.
 

Get North

Registered User
Aug 25, 2013
8,472
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B.C.
Eh, I see where ORRF is coming from. Eichel isn't living up to his expectations, I was annoyed when I had to deal with people telling me I was wrong when I believed McDavid has a significant gap over Eichel. I used stats internationally against the same competition, eye-test, scouts opinion as sources. Still, they continued to say Eichel and McDavid are on the same level, a couple preferred Eichel over McDavid, they would rather have the "big PWF" over the "smaller skill player."

I'm not going to rub it in, it was annoying to deal with stubborn people who ended up or are ending up wrong. I hope now people realize McDavid is on another level than Eichel so we can end this discussion with the same conclusion. Their careers aren't over but the way it's going it is easy to tell which one will be quite a bit better.

Eichel isn't a generational player, McDavid is.
 

New User Name

Registered User
Jan 2, 2008
12,863
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I think what pissed a lot of people off was the stupid thread about sending McDavid back to junior.

As someone who has always said Connor will probably be a better player than Crosby, I was disappointed when he got injured.

That said, I have never dismissed Eichels abilities and firmly believe we have NOT seen the best of Jack so far.

Do I think Jack is on the level of Connor....no. In fact I think Auston Matthews will be a better player than Jack and just below Connor.

BUT , damn this dick measuring crap has to stop. Both players should be better than average and teams that have them should feel fortunate.

And you know what, who knows how Connors injury will affect him, I don't think it will but you never know.

So lets just enjoy the talent of these guys.
 

OttawaRoughRiderFan*

Guest
Must be exhausting. Building up all those strawmen and then unleashing your "wrath" upon them. Lol.

Nope. Not exhausting at all. It's God's work and I take pride in it.

Whiskey,

Do you know anyone who is a member of the Usual Suspects? ;)

What about people who hyped Stamkos and Tavares as generational talents, should they be at the receiving end of your wrath?

No but if you want to put them in their place, like I have done here, feel free.

Seriously you have the rationality of someone who would be better off posting on a Justin Bieber fan forum.

I've been right about Eichel since Day 1 so... ;)

Eh, I see where ORRF is coming from. Eichel isn't living up to his expectations, I was annoyed when I had to deal with people telling me I was wrong when I believed McDavid has a significant gap over Eichel. I used stats internationally against the same competition, eye-test, scouts opinion as sources. Still, they continued to say Eichel and McDavid are on the same level, a couple preferred Eichel over McDavid, they would rather have the "big PWF" over the "smaller skill player."

I'm not going to rub it in, it was annoying to deal with stubborn people who ended up or are ending up wrong. I hope now people realize McDavid is on another level than Eichel so we can end this discussion with the same conclusion. Their careers aren't over but the way it's going it is easy to tell which one will be quite a bit better.

Eichel isn't a generational player, McDavid is.

Thanks, FR. I can't find fault with anything you've said. Finally a logical/honest post.

1 more game left. :laugh:

I'm holding you to this prediction.

:laugh:

Yup. Another pointless night for Eichel.
 
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OttawaRoughRiderFan*

Guest
Talk about an unhealthy obsession.

Actually, it's not. I didn't think the Sabres played tonight - I thought they played tomorrow night.

I spent time feeding the less fortunate tonight - believe it or not.

I also went for a walk - it's snowing and beautiful out.

Iced my shoulder - soooo sore.

Worked on a few spreadsheets.

At 10 pm, I turned on the TV - it was still on SN360 from earlier. I was half watching (I was looking at my laptop) when I saw the score flash across the bottom of the screen. I thought, "The Sabres played tonight and only scored one goal. I wonder if it was Eichel". I waited with bated breath as they listed the scorers and, as usual, Eichel was pointless. I let out a WEW HEW and decided to come to this thread.
 
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Montag DP

Sabres fan in...
Apr 4, 2007
11,854
4,069
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Seriously, what do you have against him? It's good for hockey if these talented young players live up to their abilities (which, by the way, doesn't always happen right away, so you're going to have to keep up your obsession for a few more years at least). I'm obviously partial to Eichel since he plays for my team, but I'm excited about McDavid too and want to see them both excel. The fact that you care so much about being right that you root against Eichel is, frankly, sad.
 

OttawaRoughRiderFan*

Guest
Seriously, what do you have against him? It's good for hockey if these talented young players live up to their abilities (which, by the way, doesn't always happen right away, so you're going to have to keep up your obsession for a few more years at least). I'm obviously partial to Eichel since he plays for my team, but I'm excited about McDavid too and want to see them both excel. The fact that you care so much about being right that you root against Eichel is, frankly, sad.

I have nothing against Eichel. I really don't. He seems like a nice young man. I have seen him being nice to sick kids. God bless his heart for that (being sincere). I also like the Sabres and have gone to my share of games.

To see why I root against him, everything is explained in Post 973...

As others have said, this has NOTHING to do with Eichel or the Sabres - I'm sure Eichel is a nice kid. It has everything to do with the Usual Suspects - American posters who OVER HYPE their prospects. They do it year in and year out. Those prospects never live up to the hype but, instead of learning from their mistakes, they just over hype the next guy and deny, deny, deny they ever pumped up the previous one.

Perfect example : Seth Jones...

Seth Jones was called the American Bobby Orr. He was hyped as 'much better than McKinnon'. He was going to perform on a far higher lever than Ekblad ever could - some said Ekblad was going to be a bust. Jones was going to be a Generational D-Man.

When NONE of these things happened, did the Usual Suspects say, "Next time we'll wait and see?" No, they started up with Eichel. They said he was as good as McDavid. They ran down McDavid. Now Eichel isn't living up to the hype.

As I have said before, the Usual Suspect want a Generational Player so bad that they resent Canada's ability to produce the best and the brightest. That resentment leads to shouting matches that alienate posters. When the alienated posters say "I told you so" after the fact, the Usual Suspects get upset. :cry: Well, that is too bad. Next time don't over hype the player.

They also want the NCAA to be on the same level as the CHL - which it is not.

That is why this thread is here and why so many posters are taking pleasure in Eichel's struggles. So, if you want to blame someone for the venom Eichel is receiving, blame the Usual Suspects.

I'd list the Usual Suspects but the Mods won't allow that.
 
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AD1066

Registered User
Sep 30, 2011
7,597
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In other words: "I want a young man who has spent countless hours working towards a life most of us can only dream about, to fail at his goal, because of what some people wrote on an internet message board."
 

New User Name

Registered User
Jan 2, 2008
12,863
1,696
As others have said, this has NOTHING to do with Eichel or the Sabres - I'm sure Eichel is a nice kid. It has everything to do with the Usual Suspects - American posters who OVER HYPE their prospects. They do it year in and year out. Those prospects never live up to the hype but, instead of learning from their mistakes, they just over hype the next guy and deny, deny, deny they ever pumped up the previous one.

Perfect example : Seth Jones...

Seth Jones was called the American Bobby Orr. He was hyped as 'much better than McKinnon'. He was going to perform on a far higher lever than Ekblad ever could - some said Ekblad was going to be a bust. Jones was going to be a Generational D-Man.

When NONE of these things happened, did the Usual Suspects say, "Next time we'll wait and see?" No, they started up with Eichel. They said he was as good as McDavid. They ran down McDavid. Now Eichel isn't living up to the hype.

As I have said before, the Usual Suspect want a Generational Player so bad that they resent Canada's ability to produce the best and the brightest. That resentment leads to shouting matches that alienate posters. When the alienated posters say "I told you so" after the fact, the Usual Suspects get upset. :cry: Well, that is too bad. Next time don't over hype the player.

They also want the NCAA to be on the same level as the CHL - which it is not.

That is why this thread is here and why so many posters are taking pleasure in Eichel's struggles. So, if you want to blame someone for the venom Eichel is receiving, blame the Usual Suspects.

I have nothing against Eichel. I really don't. He seems like a nice young man. I have seen him being nice to sick kids. God bless his heart for that (being sincere). I also like the Sabres and have gone to my share of games.

To see why I root against him, everything is explained in Post 973...



I'd list the Usual Suspects but the Mods won't allow that.

If the bolded is true, which I really haven't seen much of (well other than a very few posters), why would you lower yourself to their level? NO, lower yourself even more.

To actively root against a player just because others have hyped him is actually disturbing. It's not normal behaviour.

Did you root for Kessel to fail when some had him on the same level as Crosby?
 

OttawaRoughRiderFan*

Guest
In other words: "I want a young man who has spent countless hours working towards a life most of us can only dream about, to fail at his goal, because of what some people wrote on an internet message board."

He is not going to fail. He will be fine. He will also make more money and be far more successful than I've been in life so I doubt he cares what a dummy like me thinks.

Having said that, before this season, the bile thrown at McDavid by Eichel supporters was horrible. McDavid supporters said, "Okay... let's wait and see". We did.

Also, remember the posts and threads after the first 3 games? The ones that said McDavid should be sent back to the CHL and Buffalo was lucky that Edmonton got stuck with McDavid? Remember the post taking pleasure in McDavid's injury. That is all part of it.

Well, now we are getting our pound of flesh.
 
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Moskau

Registered User
Jun 30, 2004
19,978
4,743
WNY
Ask St. Louis fans how Eichel played tonight before looking at a sports ticker.
 

OttawaRoughRiderFan*

Guest
If the bolded is true, which I really haven't seen much of (well other than a very few posters)...

Come on, mang... You've seen LOTS of it. TONS OF IT!!! Ask Mr. Writer. Ask FR. You just always turn a blind eye to the Usual Suspects doing that stuff because of your fondness for NCAA hockey.

why would you lower yourself to their level? NO, lower yourself even more.

It's fun and, at the end of the day, NONE of this matters. It's just silly.

To actively root against a player just because others have hyped him is actually disturbing. It's not normal behaviour.

LOL. I'm sorry you feel that way. Well, not really.

Plus, you are quick to rip me but did you rip the poster who took pleasure in McDavid almost breaking his neck? I didn't think so. Why not?

Did you root for Kessel to fail when some had him on the same level as Crosby?
Still do. :)
 
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