Player Discussion Connor Brown (C) - Update: Signs 3 year, $10.8M deal

[BonkTastic]

Well they're currently paying Ceci/Barrie a combined $7.25 million to be not great defensively while also being forced to play Holl/Gravel/Marincin in bottom pairing roles while their kids marinate. There's a world where they can actually improve defensively (mind you, while losing some offence on the back end) if they let Barrie/Ceci/Holl/Marincin/Gravel walk while replacing them with UFA (shutdown type)/Dermott (increased role)/Sandin/Liljgren.

It's not an easy task, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities either.

Part of Toronto's defensive issues as well is the fact that they traded away two of their strongest defensive forwards in C.Brown and Kadri.

Even if they add a guy on the back end, they still created defensive holes among the forwards and especially on the PK where Brown was basically the 1st unit shutdown guy on the wing. Kadri was, for all his other flaws, a physical two-way guy who played solid hockey at both ends.

 

[SENSible67]

Expansion won't move the cap all that much. Wouldn't they have to generate 34 million over league average for each team to get half a million to spend?

half billion expansion fee divided by 30 teams (vegas is shut out). What's that add up to?

 

[supsens]

half billion expansion fee divided by 30 teams (vegas is shut out). What's that add up to?

Money going into the owners pockets that isn’t counted as HRR

 

[Sensfan4life]

Money going into the owners pockets that isn’t counted as HRR

Not sure what this has to do with Conor Brown, but you are 100% right about the expansion fees.

 

[Silencio]

He won't keep up his current scoring pace but it would be hilarious if Connor Brown turns out to be this year's version of 2017-18 William Karlsson.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Do you not just love the feeling of knowing you ripped the Leafs off in two separate trades now? I do not see them making a trade with us again for a long, long time.

Leafs didn't get ripped off. Not every trade ends up having a winner/loser. The trade was much riskier for Ottawa, and even know Brown has been great, the trade will be defined by whether or not Zaitsev can be a solid top 4 defender long term.

The Leafs got out of the Zaitsev contract for pretty much nothing. That was their return in the trade. Regardless of whether their short term pieces like Ceci work out, they got cap space. Whether or not Zaitsev works long term here is irrelevant to whether Toronto was ripped off. He wasn't working there. Nobody else was taking him. They'd probably rather he work out here if it means that he's off the books not working in Toronto.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Leafs didn't get ripped off. Not every trade ends up having a winner/loser. The trade was much riskier for Ottawa, and even know Brown has been great, the trade will be defined by whether or not Zaitsev can be a solid top 4 defender long term.

The Leafs got out of the Zaitsev contract for pretty much nothing. That was their return in the trade. Regardless of whether their short term pieces like Ceci work out, they got cap space. Whether or not Zaitsev works long term here is irrelevant to whether Toronto was ripped off. He wasn't working there. Nobody else was taking him. They'd probably rather he work out here if it means that he's off the books not working in Toronto.

He could undoubtably have traded those players for picks or prospects instead.

It was a bad trade value wise, and makes little sense to me.

In fact given how bad their defensive play is, I’m not sure why they would trade two solid defensive players for a struggling dman who is on his last year.

The got nothing of value in return save for cap space, when they could have given themselves cap relief and also returned them assets.

If PD has made this trade in the other end he would have been absolutely skewered in here for terrible asset management.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

This guy has mostly been great this year. Had one really bad defensive play tonight I saw but that's everybody on this team now. I didn't think he'd be worth it as the sweetener on a Zaitsev trade but now I wonder what he'll be worth as a TD target. Could be an amazing opportunity to sell high on a guy. His ice time is kinda bonkers right now but he does almost have a PPG. Gotta think a playoff team would love to have this guy as a 6 or 7 forward for their push. Could net an amazing haul and we can avoid giving him like 5M on a new contract. He'd be a great player to hold onto but with this ice time here he might get too pricey for Eugene.

 

[JD1]

Leafs didn't get ripped off. Not every trade ends up having a winner/loser. The trade was much riskier for Ottawa, and even know Brown has been great, the trade will be defined by whether or not Zaitsev can be a solid top 4 defender long term.

The Leafs got out of the Zaitsev contract for pretty much nothing. That was their return in the trade. Regardless of whether their short term pieces like Ceci work out, they got cap space. Whether or not Zaitsev works long term here is irrelevant to whether Toronto was ripped off. He wasn't working there. Nobody else was taking him. They'd probably rather he work out here if it means that he's off the books not working in Toronto.

How much cap space did they really get out of? What is Zaitsev's worst case scenario? Average 2nd pair guy for a couple of years then veteran bottom pair guy? The cap will be north of 90 in short order and vet D men solid bottom pair minutes will be making 2M+.

Yes they got cap relief. They got relief from their own stupidity is what they got. And they had to give up a decent player in Brown to get that relief. And even at that, it's only of benefit if they turn around and make clever use of the relief. Letting Marner take you out behind the shed and having his way with you isn't exactly making good use of the relief.

 

[Sensfan4life]

Leafs didn't get ripped off. Not every trade ends up having a winner/loser. The trade was much riskier for Ottawa, and even know Brown has been great, the trade will be defined by whether or not Zaitsev can be a solid top 4 defender long term.

The Leafs got out of the Zaitsev contract for pretty much nothing. That was their return in the trade. Regardless of whether their short term pieces like Ceci work out, they got cap space. Whether or not Zaitsev works long term here is irrelevant to whether Toronto was ripped off. He wasn't working there. Nobody else was taking him. They'd probably rather he work out here if it means that he's off the books not working in Toronto.

The Leafs were in a cap bind for the coming seasons and moving Brown and especially Zaitsev helped them out.

This is consistent with the move that saw Dorion prioritize artificial cap expenditures to meet the cap floor in acquiring Callahan from Tampa Bay.

It is clear that Dorion's mandate is to fulfill their obligation to meet the cap floor, even if it means helping out divisional rivals.

All moves must be examined in this context.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I know its petty but I really don't like the Leafs and all this x Leaf under x Leaf well wishing is tough
and then there is

 

[swiftwin]

It is clear that Dorion's mandate is to fulfill their obligation to meet the cap floor, even if it means helping out divisional rivals.

...and it's clear that Dubas' mandate is to fulfill their obligation to remain under the cap ceiling, even if it means helping out divisional rivals.

They just gave us our top scorer and our #2 defenseman for basically nothing.

 

[swiftwin]

How much cap space did they really get out of? What is Zaitsev's worst case scenario? Average 2nd pair guy for a couple of years then veteran bottom pair guy? The cap will be north of 90 in short order and vet D men solid bottom pair minutes will be making 2M+.

Yes they got cap relief. They got relief from their own stupidity is what they got. And they had to give up a decent player in Brown to get that relief. And even at that, it's only of benefit if they turn around and make clever use of the relief. Letting Marner take you out behind the shed and having his way with you isn't exactly making good use of the relief.

Exactly!!!

Everyone acts like Zaitsev had an anchor of a contract. It's not. He's maybe slightly overpaid, but that's it. He's a top 4 defenseman, and that's what top 4 defensemen get paid.

The Leafs had to move Zaitsev not because Zaitsev had a bad contract, but because Marner and Nylander have bad contracts. Nylander is getting outscored by Brown, despite Nylander playing with Matthews, and getting more PP time than Brown.

 

[Six Assets]

They just gave us our top scorer and our #2 defenseman for basically nothing.

that was the plan

 

[Hale The Villain]

He could undoubtably have traded those players for picks or prospects instead.

It was a bad trade value wise, and makes little sense to me.

In fact given how bad their defensive play is, I’m not sure why they would trade two solid defensive players for a struggling dman who is on his last year.

The got nothing of value in return save for cap space, when they could have given themselves cap relief and also returned them assets.

If PD has made this trade in the other end he would have been absolutely skewered in here for terrible asset management.

Zaitsev should have cost at least a 1st to get rid of, given what it cost to get rid of Marleau. Was nothing short of bad the last couple years in Toronto and had 5YRs left on his deal at 4.5M per.

Brown was the only asset we got in return for taking on his contract. Based on what other middle 6 forwards with similar track records returned recently (Vesey, Namestnikov, Burakovsky, Erne, etc...), a 2nd/3rd would have been fair value for him at the time.

We gave up a 2020 3rd in the deal as well, so we basically paid market value for Brown and took on Zaitsev for free.

Dorion helped them out in a huge way. Should have cost them way more to get rid of Zaitsev's deal.

 

[swiftwin]

as well, so we basically paid market value for Brown and took on Zaitsev for free.

So you're complaining that we got our #2 defenseman for free?

and got our top scorer for a 3rd round pick?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Zaitsev should have cost at least a 1st to get rid of, given what it cost to get rid of Marleau. Was nothing short of bad the last couple years in Toronto and had 5YRs left on his deal at 4.5M per.

Brown was the only asset we got in return for taking on his contract. Based on what other middle 6 forwards with similar track records returned recently (Vesey, Namestnikov, Burakovsky, Erne, etc...), a 2nd/3rd would have been fair value for him at the time.

We gave up a 2020 3rd in the deal as well, so we basically paid market value for Brown and took on Zaitsev for free.

Dorion helped them out in a huge way. Should have cost them way more to get rid of Zaitsev's deal.

Also I would not a call Zaitsev a #2 D ... Here he is played there because of DJ. Here is is a top 4 but he could just as easily switch places with Demelo and I don't think it would change much.

 

[Hale The Villain]

So you're complaining that we got our #2 defenseman for free?

and got our top scorer for a 3rd round pick?

Zaitsev is not a #2 defenseman on any team besides a bottom feeder like us. He's been decent for us but I'd hesitate even calling him a 2nd pairing defenseman until he proves it over a long stretch of time.

And Brown has been great but again, short sample size. Hopefully he keeps it up.

 

[senators101]

Zaitsev should have cost at least a 1st to get rid of, given what it cost to get rid offer Marleau. Was nothing short of bad the last couple years in Toronto and had 5YRs left on his deal at 4.5M per.

Brown was the only asset we got in return for taking on his contract. Based on what other middle 6 forwards with similar track records returned recently (Vesey, Namestnikov, Burakovsky, Erne, etc...), a 2nd/3rd would have been fair value for him at the time.

We gave up a 2020 3rd in the deal as well, so we basically paid market value for Brown and took on Zaitsev for free.

Dorion helped them out in a huge way. Should have cost them way more to get rid of Zaitsev's deal.

Different situations.

Marleau was only willing to play for one team, Zaitzev didn't really have that ability to demand where he went.

Marleau was also 4 million dollars overpaid. Zaitzev on an open market despite his last few years would still have commanded 3-3.5. In this situation though, there was some risk but some reward that if he started playing like he had in the past, he was locked in at a very reasonable price. There was no possible reward for taking on Marleau other than the extra compensation.

The way Zaitzev has been playing, his 4.5 is a very good price,

This trade doesn't happen if Smith isn't hired as our coach, he obviously felt there Brown was underutilized and Zaitzev was going to be okay in the right situation.

We didn't get rid of a contract for these guys, we could've just released Ceci. They felt that Zaitzev and Brown was worth a 3rd. After 13 games, we would already be able to recoup that pick and more and if Zaitzev can continue playing the way he has, he's going to have positive value again.

 

[Sensfan4life]

...and it's clear that Dubas' mandate is to fulfill their obligation to remain under the cap ceiling, even if it means helping out divisional rivals.

They just gave us our top scorer and our #2 defenseman for basically nothing.

On how many teams would Brown be the top scorer and Zaitsev be a #2 Dman?

Expendable spare parts to help them deal with their cap bind.

 

[swiftwin]

Expendable spare parts to help them deal with their cap bind.

Clearly not expendable if we're getting really good use out of them, no?

Especially when the Leafs are looking pretty horrid right now without those "expendable" pieces.

 

[Sensfan4life]

Clearly not expendable if we're getting really good use out of them, no?

Especially when the Leafs are looking pretty horrid right now without those "expendable" pieces.

The Leafs deemed them expendable from their talented line up.

The fact that our basement dwelling line up has found use for them doesn't changed that fact.

 

[Masked]

On how many teams would Brown be the top scorer and Zaitsev be a #2 Dman?

Expendable spare parts to help them deal with their cap bind.

Columbus thought William Karlsson was an expendable spare part. Vegas doesn't though.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't think Brown would be getting Sidney Crosby minutes per game on any other team in the league and he wouldn't be getting that much toi without his tml coach calling the shots. Brown is an average player with decent speed that works very hard. The work ethic sets a good example to the rest of the team, and particularly the young guys. He has has been getting top line minutes all year. On this roster he likely deserves to play them which tells us something about how weak a roster it is.

 

[Sweatred]

Brown has been great for us - good roll model for the kids. I think the Z contract is similar to White’s. Z was signed by a TOR team that desperately needed a dman. They overpaid a bit to secure a foundation. His contract isn’t brutal but it limits a cap team that had to overpay to keep their stars. You’d like a little more from a front line player and can probably find a replacement at a lower cost. I hope we have stars in the future that we have to overpay