Colorado Springs in the process of securing AHL Franchise via relocation.

[5cotland]

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[MMC]

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

There are two very well supported NCAA D1 hockey programs in town with Air Force Academy and Colorado College. It is Colorado Avalanche territory, and since the Eagles aren't going anywhere, it is safe to say the team will be a dumpster fire.

It is a horrible idea that would end badly. But considering that it is linked to the Flames, it is not surprising. Entering an already saturated hockey market nearby a different well-supported NHL market sounds like something they would do. Broadmoor is probably being willingly led on by them considering the arena just lost their main tenant with Colorado College announcing their new on-campus arena.

 

[go comets]

So the flames learned absolutely nothing putting a team in the Canucks territory, so now they will try Colorado's territory..... I don't see this going well....

 

[Avsrule2022]

I agree it will probably never last, but from the Eagles point of view this is would be great. An actual drive-able road trip for fans and about 20% of the Eagles travel budget just got knocked off lol.

Also just thought of this: could this team be the the one that gets sent to the Central when the Pacific gets to 9 teams? I'm pretty sure the Eagles are happy being in the Pacific......

 

[Centrum Hockey]

There are two very well supported NCAA D1 hockey programs in town with Air Force Academy and Colorado College. It is Colorado Avalanche territory, and since the Eagles aren't going anywhere, it is safe to say the team will be a dumpster fire.

It is a horrible idea that would end badly. But considering that it is linked to the Flames, it is not surprising. Entering an already saturated hockey market nearby a different well-supported NHL market sounds like something they would do. Broadmoor is probably being willingly led on by them considering the arena just lost their main tenant with Colorado College announcing their new on-campus arena.

So the flames learned absolutely nothing putting a team in the Canucks territory, so now they will try Colorado's territory..... I don't see this going well....

In a couple years in Colorado Spring we will probably be hearing that the flames are unhappy and are looking at other AHL options. Arena operators should really start telling the AHL Devils and Flames to go away if they are approached by them because having them move to your city is a good way to kill a hockey market.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

In a couple years in Colorado Spring we will probably be hearing that the flames are unhappy and are looking at other AHL options. Arena operators should really start telling the AHL Devils and Flames to go away if they are approached by them because having them move to your city is a good way to kill a hockey market.

Colorado Springs is a pretty well-known college hockey market. Their one minor league hockey experience was not well supported and failed after a few years. I don't see anyone reasonable portion of the Air Force or Colorado College fanbases leaving to support a new team, especially one with much more expensive tickets, for prospects for a team that isn't the Avalanche.

 

[voyageur]

This is kind of surprising to me. If I were the Flames, I'd be looking at Regina for an AHL market that is within scouting range. That would make for a good rivalry with the Jets/Moose. Allows for the Pacific division to make room for Palm Springs.

 

[wildcat48]

This smells of Brian Petrovek.... He's came from Colorado with USA Hockey before buying the Pirates so I'm not shocked by this one bit.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Fans worry as fate of Stockton Heat up in the air

“I've seen a drastic reduction in the efforts made to continue to draw people in, to encourage people to spend their money at the arena. Whether it be food, parking, all of that,” said Heat fan Christie Steiner. “And that's all money that goes to the city, I believe. That's not money that goes to the team.”

Sounds about right knowing how Petrovek and execs/owners like him operate.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

In a couple years in Colorado Spring we will probably be hearing that the flames are unhappy and are looking at other AHL options. Arena operators should really start telling the AHL Devils and Flames to go away if they are approached by them because having them move to your city is a good way to kill a hockey market.

Ask Quad Cities, ask Abbotsford

 

[Boxer Courage]

I don’t know that people in Colorado would care that it’s a Calgary team like those in Canucks territory might. Comparing the likelihood of success for a 1990s WCHL team that gave it a go in a 2000 seat airplane hangar in Fairbanks before moving to Colorado to today’s AHL is apples to oranges. There are far less desirable markets already icing minor league teams

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

This is kind of surprising to me. If I were the Flames, I'd be looking at Regina for an AHL market that is within scouting range. That would make for a good rivalry with the Jets/Moose. Allows for the Pacific division to make room for Palm Springs.

Far too much travel in Regina. It’s why Vancouver, Florida, Edmonton, Seattle, and others have elected to keep their affiliates further away from home, but closer to division rivals. The costs of horrific team travel far outweigh the benefits of a few easy call ups.

I don’t know that people in Colorado would care that it’s a Calgary team like those in Canucks territory might. Comparing the likelihood of success for a 1990s WCHL team that gave it a go in a 2000 seat airplane hangar in Fairbanks before moving to Colorado to today’s AHL is apples to oranges. There are far less desirable markets already icing minor league teams

It’s a well-known college hockey supporting town. The old “they want a team to call their own” and “there are worse places to go” are two pretty ineffective arguments. One is a bad joke from Slapshot and the other is a horrible business decision.

 

[Agalloch]

Flames will destroy another market.

 

[voyageur]

Far too much travel in Regina. It’s why Vancouver, Florida, Edmonton, Seattle, and others have elected to keep their affiliates further away from home, but closer to division rivals. The costs of horrific team travel far outweigh the benefits of a few easy call ups.



It’s a well-known college hockey supporting town. The old “they want a team to call their own” and “there are worse places to go” are two pretty ineffective arguments. One is a bad joke from Slapshot and the other is a horrible business decision.

Yeah the AHL is consolidating its travel schedules. Looks like the Pacific will be comprised of California teams and two in the desert. Where the other one goes, no one knows. I expect Vancouver to pull the plug on Utica sooner or later. If St. Louis were smart they would have their affiliate in Kansas City. You make a Midwest rivalry of 5 teams, following College lines. Two in Colorado though I think Calgary would be better with an affiliate in Oklahoma, Tulsa would be a good self-sustaining AHL market; one in Iowa, one in Texas. With a Northern contingent of Manitoba, Chicago, Milwaukee. Moose can play more games against Eastern Canadian teams. Since the flights are cheaper. For Chicago and Milwaukee, it's a pretty short travel to Grand Rapids or Cleveland.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Yeah the AHL is consolidating its travel schedules. Looks like the Pacific will be comprised of California teams and two in the desert. Where the other one goes, no one knows. I expect Vancouver to pull the plug on Utica sooner or later. If St. Louis were smart they would have their affiliate in Kansas City. You make a Midwest rivalry of 5 teams, following College lines. Two in Colorado though I think Calgary could maybe go back to Oklahoma, Tulsa would be a good AHL market; one in Iowa, one in Texas. With a Northern contingent of Manitoba, Chicago, Milwaukee. Moose can play more games against Eastern Canadian teams. Since the flights are cheaper. For Chicago and Milwaukee, it's a pretty short travel to Grand Rapids or Cleveland.

St. Louis tried getting an AHL affiliate in Kansas City, but that's Lamar Hunt Jr. territory and he shot them down. He likes his independent-minded ECHL and, much like Toledo and Ft. Wayne, he doesn't want to play subservient with a higher power. With the AHL as division- and schedule-minded as the NHL, good luck getting Manitoba to play eastern Canadian teams and that many relocations.

 

[voyageur]

St. Louis tried getting an AHL affiliate in Kansas City, but that's Lamar Hunt Jr. territory and he shot them down. He likes his independent-minded ECHL and, much like Toledo and Ft. Wayne, he doesn't want to play subservient with a higher power. With the AHL as division- and schedule-minded as the NHL, good luck getting Manitoba to play eastern Canadian teams and that many relocations.

They already do. Moose play Canadian teams more than Texas teams for travel. That's a problem that the AHL has to work with. For Colorado and Texas, they are a good distance from nearest rivals.

Interesting about Hunt. Seems like AHL would be a stepping stone to being a viable NHL market. I have to say I preferred the old IHL to the current configurations of the A, where the biggest growth is in the Southwest. But the Midwest is kind of scattered.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

They already do. Moose play Canadian teams more than Texas teams for travel. That's a problem that the AHL has to work with. For Colorado and Texas, they are a good distance from nearest rivals.

Interesting about Hunt. Seems like AHL would be a stepping stone to being a viable NHL market. I have to say I preferred the old IHL to the current configurations of the A, where the biggest growth is in the Southwest. But the Midwest is kind of scattered.

Not true. The Manitoba Moose played the three Canadian teams twice each for a total of six done in only two trips. The first was a game at Belleville and then a double at Toronto, the second was a double at Laval and one at Belleville. More trips were made to the two Texas teams playing them 4 times each for a total of 8, for both a higher average and total number of games against Texas teams than against Canadian teams.

For Hunt, he realized the NHL has passed and isn't coming back so he's doing things his way. Here's a few interesting links explaining some of it. https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nhl/article118032533.html / AHL Spurns Kansas City, Leaves Blues In Lurch. And becoming a AHL market, subservient to the whims of the nearest NHL team in the form of St. Louis, is definitely not the way to become a viable NHL market. The Sprint Center doesn't even want hockey, they have more than enough dates as it is. He is concentrating on building hockey from the ground up now, he's trying to bring a USHL or NAHL team to Kansas City, build rinks, do things that way. His way. He's as independent-minded as Ft. Wayne and Toledo.

For the midwest geography, looked at the NHL teams. There's a reason there has never been a successful and truly midwest-based minor pro league. The southeast has the SPHL, the FPHL has been all over the place but they most their western fringe is Illinois. The AHL had New England and Atlantic Canada until the NHL pushed for development through the draft. Travel in the Midwest is too much, and travel is enough to make a team fold midseason. It's enough of a reason for markets like Billings and Reno to not even bother making the necessary repairs to their arenas to join the ECHL, they ran the numbers and realized travel alone would put the team in the red. The CHL was the only one to try and they collapsed on themselves after everyone jumped ship who could.

 

[voyageur]

Not true. The Manitoba Moose played the three Canadian teams twice each for a total of six done in only two trips. The first was a game at Belleville and then a double at Toronto, the second was a double at Laval and one at Belleville. More trips were made to the two Texas teams playing them 4 times each for a total of 8, for both a higher average and total number of games against Texas teams than against Canadian teams.

For Hunt, he realized the NHL has passed and isn't coming back so he's doing things his way. Here's a few interesting links explaining some of it. https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nhl/article118032533.html / AHL Spurns Kansas City, Leaves Blues In Lurch. And becoming a AHL market, subservient to the whims of the nearest NHL team in the form of St. Louis, is definitely not the way to become a viable NHL market. The Sprint Center doesn't even want hockey, they have more than enough dates as it is. He is concentrating on building hockey from the ground up now, he's trying to bring a USHL or NAHL team to Kansas City, build rinks, do things that way. His way. He's as independent-minded as Ft. Wayne and Toledo.

For the midwest geography, looked at the NHL teams. There's a reason there has never been a successful and truly midwest-based minor pro league. The southeast has the SPHL, the FPHL has been all over the place but they most their western fringe is Illinois. The AHL had New England and Atlantic Canada until the NHL pushed for development through the draft. Travel in the Midwest is too much, and travel is enough to make a team fold midseason. It's enough of a reason for markets like Billings and Reno to not even bother making the necessary repairs to their arenas to join the ECHL, they ran the numbers and realized travel alone would put the team in the red. The CHL was the only one to try and they collapsed on themselves after everyone jumped ship who could.

You are right. One more trip to Texas. They made 4 this year. I didn't realize that. I remember reading that San Antonio and Austin played each other 12 times this year though to make up for travelling inequities. Will be harder on Austin without a close rival.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

You are right. One more trip to Texas. They made 4 this year. I didn't realize that. I remember reading that San Antonio and Austin played each other 12 times this year though to make up for travelling inequities. Will be harder on Austin without a close rival.

The NHL's Western Conference is already known for having pretty intense travel. It would make sense that with the varied development strategies implemented with those NHL teams that their AHL teams would be on the receiving end. It looks like that it is going to be Austin. They won't be the only ones. Charlotte and Manitoba are also quite isolated, although perhaps not to the same extreme.

 

[PCSPounder]

The ONE thing that may recommend Colorado Springs is that the metropolis has grown 40% from when the Gold Kings didn't draw. That's a lot of people who potentially never bothered with Colorado College.

It still screams bad idea in my book.

 

[axecrew]

The NHL's Western Conference is already known for having pretty intense travel. It would make sense that with the varied development strategies implemented with those NHL teams that their AHL teams would be on the receiving end. It looks like that it is going to be Austin. They won't be the only ones. Charlotte and Manitoba are also quite isolated, although perhaps not to the same extreme.

If current rumors become fact Charlotte may not have to worry about for long.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

If current rumors become fact Charlotte may not have to worry about for long.

I'll believe Charlotte goes to Chicago when it happens and not a second before. There's a lot of moving parts in that scenario. If I had a dollar for one of those theories that someone tweeted out and never came anywhere close to happening, then I could afford to pay Pierre LeBrun and Bob McKenzie to do their insider reports in my living room.

 

[JMCx4]

... For the midwest geography, looked at the NHL teams. There's a reason there has never been a successful and truly midwest-based minor pro league. ... Travel in the Midwest is too much, and travel is enough to make a team fold midseason. ...

The most recent precedence for a Midwest team folding that I could find with a quick search was the UHL's Columbus Stars in Jan. 2004. Prior to that it was the IHL's Milwaukee Falcons back in 1961. So I presume those two travel statements were not intended to illustrate direct cause-and-effect?

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

The most recent precedence for a Midwest team folding that I could find with a quick search was the UHL's Columbus Stars in Jan. 2004. Prior to that it was the IHL's Milwaukee Falcons back in 1961. So I presume those two travel statements were not intended to illustrate direct cause-and-effect?

It was mostly a dig at the Fed. But there have been a few Western teams to have folded mid-season. I'm not quite sure where the American Midwest ends and West begins, but Fresno did in the mid-2000s. San Francisco Bulls did as well in the mid-2010s. The Border City Bandits in the CHL also, that is maybe the Midwest.