Player Discussion Colin White signed for 6 years x $4.75M

[Sweatred]

You have no idea if that's true. All it takes is one team to like the player and think he's been dealt a bad hand.

If there were teams who would have given him his contract last off-season (my stance is that there were) ~40 games of uneven play isn't enough to change their opinion on the player. It obviously would have affected his value, but "not moveable" just seems like such hyperbole.

Sure ... anything can happen. I’d be comfortable betting you $5000 he clears waivers (I know he doesn’t need too).

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Someone might bite on him this off season. But I also don't think the Senators would move him. You don't sign a player to a contract like the one White signed and then get cold feet a year later.

If he has another season like this, there is no chance the contract can be moved without money coming back. Term is a killer when moving under performing players.

It doesn't matter that much though because the buyout hit is so cheap. The buyout will cost 817k a year in real money if he is bought out this season, next season, or the season after that. Starting in 2023, the buyout cap cost would rise substantially to 1.8M per season.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Sure ... anything can happen. I’d be comfortable betting you $5000 he clears waivers (I know he doesn’t need too).

The Red Wings would claim him in a second.

They are in a rebuild and have loads of cap space.

Most teams wouldn't be willing to take the risk on White because they will value the cap space more than a player with potential coming off a really bad season, but there are a few teams that would go for him. Even a team like Colorado might put in a claim. They have loads of cap space over the next few seasons, they probably took a look at White during the prolonged Duchene talks, so they might have a certain bias towards him if they liked him in those viewings. (Assuming they did scout him)

 

[Comely]

Someone might bite on him this off season. But I also don't think the Senators would move him. You don't sign a player to a contract like the one White signed and then get cold feet a year later.

If he has another season like this, there is no chance the contract can be moved without money coming back. Term is a killer when moving under performing players.

It doesn't matter that much though because the buyout hit is so cheap. The buyout will cost 817k a year in real money if he is bought out this season, next season, or the season after that. Starting in 2023, the buyout cap cost would rise substantially to 1.8M per season.

This is more or less my thought as well just hold onto him for another year or two and see if he can pick his game up if its still not working out buy him out before he hits 26 and you can still do it for one third.

 

[SensFan1010]

I can not understand how people want to give pageau a 5.5x5 contract but are mad with whites contract. White is a lot younger and has a lot more upside then pageau and as garbage as hes been producing this season its not much worse then how pageau has produced throughout his whole career.

 

[Sweatred]

The Red Wings would claim him in a second.

They are in a rebuild and have loads of cap space.

Most teams wouldn't be willing to take the risk on White because they will value the cap space more than a player with potential coming off a really bad season, but there are a few teams that would go for him. Even a team like Colorado might put in a claim. They have loads of cap space over the next few seasons, they probably took a look at White during the prolonged Duchene talks, so they might have a certain bias towards him if they liked him in those viewings. (Assuming they did scout him)

Both posts are fair ... I’m not sure Detroit auto claims him but it isn’t worth arguing

I’d like to see a more creative approach to his development.

 

[Viletho]

Both posts are fair ... I’m not sure Detroit auto claims him but it isn’t worth arguing

I’d like to see a more creative approach to his development.

That's a fair point. There is something they are doing that isn't working.

Stone or not, he was able to get 40 pts point last year as a rookie. He has offensive potential. Being nerve, pressure or anything related to the human side et isn't playing as well this year.

The coaching staff seems to throw him left and right also. Maybe a little bit of stability would do him favour.

They need to give him a proper role and right now, it all over the place.

Can't see why Smith is only using his vetetan on the pk, aside from Duclair. ( Is he still playing the PK ) It's supose to be a developong season. He should try to devellop some of the young guy to play the PK, also.

Personally, i would use him in defensive situation with 2nd PP, maybe even remove him from the PP if needed, for now.

Give him the 3rd line with Chlapik and Paul (Chlapik-Paul-White ) Ask them to play a in their face checking game with defensive duty. They all have offensive capability and let them gel together.

 

[Cosmix]

Yeah, little offensive skill.....

Got many more?

 

[Xspyrit]

Gosh I'd love to make that easy 5000$. Many teams would claim Colin White. It's not because Ottawa is scared to spend a few dollars that every team is. Worse case scenario if they need space (because for other teams it's not always about money, it's about cap space), they will bury salary in the AHL or retain salary in a transaction, buy out a player, etc.

I don't know how it's possible if some people who followed the NHL never heard of it but the "Sophomore Jinx" is something that happens a lot :

10 NHL Players Who Experienced the Sophomore Jinx

I know a lot people don't believe in it and think because McDavid doesn't go through it then it's a myth. But it's pretty logic and natural, don't want to go deep on the subject but the "brand new" element is gone to other teams, players will be checked tighter and will have the challenge to reproduce what they were able to do before, it's just part of the learning curve on how to be a pro.

White will bounce back next year, he will never be an offensive dynamo but Sens really won't need him to be with Batherson, Brown, Norris, Tkachuk, Duclair, Balcers and the 2 high first round picks coming up. Even Formenton, Pinto, Crookshank and Abramov could develop into more offensive forwards. What is important is that White develops his overall game and matures into his body.

Yes White is overpaid this year, yes his extension could have waited and they could have given him a "bridge deal" but let's not forget it was circumstantial after the massive exodus of talent. White and Chabot were signed long term to give hope to the fanbase. They really didn't need long-term contracts right away. Won't matter much anyway, the team is spending (salaries) way under the cap floor and 4.75 is about what White will eventually be worth, maybe 2 years too early but like I just explained it was needed.

So how many times do we still need to go around the question?

 

[SensontheRush]

Liked this post except for the Anderson part. Not so sure he wasn't a flash in the pan last year.

My point was more, that just like Anderson (who is underperforming worse yet has been injured), we should expect White to bounce back. It's funny that you'd say that Anderson might bust though

 

[SensontheRush]

False.

Sure, outside of the rare occasion, he was given bottom six deployment.

 

[Boud]

Sure, outside of the rare occasion, he was given bottom six deployment.

Because when given top 6 opportunities he never provided any value. And the same when getting time in the bottom 6 as well.

 

[Sweatred]

Gosh I'd love to make that easy 5000$. Many teams would claim Colin White. It's not because Ottawa is scared to spend a few dollars that every team is. Worse case scenario if they need space (because for other teams it's not always about money, it's about cap space), they will bury salary in the AHL or retain salary in a transaction, buy out a player, etc.

I don't know how it's possible if some people who followed the NHL never heard of it but the "Sophomore Jinx" is something that happens a lot :

10 NHL Players Who Experienced the Sophomore Jinx

I know a lot people don't believe in it and think because McDavid doesn't go through it then it's a myth. But it's pretty logic and natural, don't want to go deep on the subject but the "brand new" element is gone to other teams, players will be checked tighter and will have the challenge to reproduce what they were able to do before, it's just part of the learning curve on how to be a pro.

White will bounce back next year, he will never be an offensive dynamo but Sens really won't need him to be with Batherson, Brown, Norris, Tkachuk, Duclair, Balcers and the 2 high first round picks coming up. Even Formenton, Pinto, Crookshank and Abramov could develop into more offensive forwards. What is important is that White develops his overall game and matures into his body.

Yes White is overpaid this year, yes his extension could have waited and they could have given him a "bridge deal" but let's not forget it was circumstantial after the massive exodus of talent. White and Chabot were signed long term to give hope to the fanbase. They really didn't need long-term contracts right away. Won't matter much anyway, the team is spending (salaries) way under the cap floor and 4.75 is about what White will eventually be worth, maybe 2 years too early but like I just explained it was needed.

So how many times do we still need to go around the question?

Thank god he will be good next year. Thanks for sharing. Can you let us know who takes him?

 

[GCK]

White looked very good in the first.

 

[Xspyrit]

Thank god he will be good next year. Thanks for sharing. Can you let us know who takes him?

if you’re going to say absolutely nothing don’t waste my time quoting my posts. Thank you

 

[Sweatred]

if you’re going to say absolutely nothing don’t waste my time quoting my posts. Thank you

Ha ! I was just agreeing with you. I chose that instead of my first thought which was defend myself after you accused me of not knowing what your “softmore jinx” was. That is a pretty stupid claim.

I completely disagree that he is having a down season. I think he is demonstrating the same skill he did last year when he was carried by MS/MD. His lack of skill is easier to see because he doesn’t have line mates to carry the play. From my point of view Camp White just keeps deferring excuses. We’ve gone through his injury, his position changes, Y2Jinx, roll changes, etc. The only thing the Sens have done to support him is to continue to throw him out there. That works for some players - the org hasn’t chosen that path for any other prospect.

Just keep burying your head in the sand and pray he autodevelops with all the ice time he is given next year or whenever.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I hate to be so negative...sorry in advance..
but White looks like a black hole . He is outmatched in the NHL. I see nothing but a Curtis Lazar clone.

I am not saying he won't improve but man, I am really disappointed in his progress.

 

[Micklebot]

Ha ! I was just agreeing with you. I chose that instead of my first thought which was defend myself after you accused me of not knowing what your “softmore jinx” was. That is a pretty stupid claim.

I completely disagree that he is having a down season. I think he is demonstrating the same skill he did last year when he was carried by MS/MD. His lack of skill is easier to see because he doesn’t have line mates to carry the play. From my point of view Camp White just keeps deferring excuses. We’ve gone through his injury, his position changes, Y2Jinx, roll changes, etc. The only thing the Sens have done to support him is to continue to throw him out there. That works for some players - the org hasn’t chosen that path for any other prospect.

Just keep burying your head in the sand and pray he autodevelops with all the ice time he is given next year or whenever.

Just a point of clarification here; Colin White barely played with Duchene last year, the idea that he was carried by Duchene is just odd when he only had all off 170 mins at any strength, of which much was on the PP.

White carried by Stone, sure, valid argument that lots of people agree with. White carried by Duchene? Not based in facts. White and Duchene together without Stone actually had some pretty terrible underlying numbers at ES: ~36% xGF and CF albeit in a pretty meaningless ~80 min sample size. White did better away from both Stone and Duchene than he did with just Duchene, which is impressive because most of that likely happened after they were traded and White would have been targeted as being on the team's top line. The three only played as a full line together for 25 mins at ES.

 

[Sweatred]

Just a point of clarification here; Colin White barely played with Duchene last year, the idea that he was carried by Duchene is just odd when he only had all off 170 mins at any strength, of which much was on the PP.

White carried by Stone, sure, valid argument that lots of people agree with. White carried by Duchene? Not based in facts. White and Duchene together without Stone actually had some pretty terrible underlying numbers at ES: ~36% xGF and CF albeit in a pretty meaningless ~80 min sample size. White did better away from both Stone and Duchene than he did with just Duchene, which is impressive because most of that likely happened after they were traded and White would have been targeted as being on the team's top line. The three only played as a full line together for 25 mins at ES.

How many points do you think ~170 min of PP time is worth with MD ? MD is effective at zone entries, protecting the puck, drawing coverage,passing and scoring. Even if White had 2-4 pts added from this time with MD it puts him on his +10 pts pace with combined MD/MS with the other 6+ coming from the MS benefit.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ha ! I was just agreeing with you. I chose that instead of my first thought which was defend myself after you accused me of not knowing what your “softmore jinx” was. That is a pretty stupid claim.

I completely disagree that he is having a down season. I think he is demonstrating the same skill he did last year when he was carried by MS/MD. His lack of skill is easier to see because he doesn’t have line mates to carry the play. From my point of view Camp White just keeps deferring excuses. We’ve gone through his injury, his position changes, Y2Jinx, roll changes, etc. The only thing the Sens have done to support him is to continue to throw him out there. That works for some players - the org hasn’t chosen that path for any other prospect.

Just keep burying your head in the sand and pray he autodevelops with all the ice time he is given next year or whenever.

Simple question :

WHERE THE HECK DID I QUOTE YOU? Do you see a quote in that post #984?????????????????????

Yes, in the first sentence I mentioned the 5000$ bet but that's it, only time I even thought about you (I really try to avoid your posts as much a possible but you were quoted on this, that's how I saw it). Why did you feel targeted the rest of the way? Because of that first sentence? Like I have always said to people who accused me of this or that over the years when I speak in generality, "If the hat fits, wear it". But I'm not responsible if you feel diminished or this or that and you feel you have to defend yourself. I'm not responsible for poor little kids emotions for Christ's sake.

So before insulting me saying that I have made a pretty stupid claim by accusing you of not knowing what "my" “softmore jinx” was, maybe try to understand what is going on first?

So for that reason and for your little arrogant jab in post #988, I am gladly exposing you now, even though people might have already figured you out. Maybe you should mind your own business and be careful on who you try to f*** with?

Now back to White (and for the benefit of others), earlier this year, I was talking about how some people will get fooled by looking at Sens players stats thinking they can draw any conclusion from it. Possible that some people have absolutely no idea what a rebuild is. It goes both ways, thinking White is trash is the same as thinking Duclair was the new Ovechkin after he scored his 21st goal earlier this season (and now hasn't scored in 12 games). Both opinions are extremely foolish.

Colin White is sure not having a great season but he is still on pace (per 82 GP) for 27 points (which he might improve before the end of the season) despite all the established stars/vets gone (add other excuses/reasons if you want) since he started on the team in 2017-18 (Karlsson, Duchene, Stone, Dzingel, Hoffman, Brassard, Phaneuf, etc). OF COURSE, producing numbers in the current context really won't be easy for young players, the team traded a whole first line and one of the best offensive D-man of this generation... Connor Brown and JG Pageau (excellent players but not clear top-6 forwards) are the most used forwards... Seriously, what do we expect?

White turns 23 y/o tomorrow and he will never be an offensive player so producing numbers is not his bread and butter. From what I have seen and read, he has been playing better and that's all that matters for now, that he keeps building himself as a NHL player.

Finally, I'm going to give you a little advice here, maybe you should think about seeing a shrink for your White obsession, it's really getting pathetic.

 

[NyQuil]

I hate to be so negative...sorry in advance..
but White looks like a black hole . He is outmatched in the NHL. I see nothing but a Curtis Lazar clone.

I am not saying he won't improve but man, I am really disappointed in his progress.

I have a hard time evaluating him after he was put on IR for 3-5 weeks right at the beginning of the season (~October 23), after having played injured for awhile before that.

It's like when Nylander struggled last year after sitting out for awhile awaiting his new contract, and then miraculously was anointed "Comeback Player of the Year" next season because he went through camp and played from the beginning of the season.

Well, duh.

 

[Xspyrit]

LOL!

It's hilarious how some can view a player, obsessively comment in multiple threads about their perceived shortcomings while removing any context (history of success and production, age, injuries, roster transition, etc...) to create a fabricated narrative (the whole salary thing for 1) and then be aghast when other posters react with measured comments bringing very valid counterpoints.

The fabricated narrative is somehow supposed to be the, "truth" so that posters can then turn around and call those with opposing views, "apologists".

As far as Boro, Brown, Batherson all have posters who can see their positives and specific to the younger ones the same "apologists" probably have the same reaction. Calm down and take a breath - the NHL is a tough league to get your footing in, so have some patience and let kids develop.

Thanks for this, one of best posts I have read in a while.

I don’t see White becoming anything more than a Phillip Danault type player, i.e., a second to third line tweener.

Wait. Maybe that is where the problem is. Were people expecting White to be more than a Phillip Danault type player? That's exactly the upside potential that I have been wanting White to reach and that will be pretty good. Danault is a pretty good player, not just a "second to third line tweener". 53 pts last season, on pace for 58 pts this year, excellent all around player.

I see that some people are not too familiar with PD...

That's exactly who we need White to become because if we'd have Danault as the 3rd line center, we'd be in pretty good shape.

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

He looked good last game, broke up a few plays with his stick, got the puck to Duclair in front of the net for a good chance after beating the d to the puck on a forecheck.

White was drafted as a defensively responsible centre, but man...Konecny was available and he always had the higher ceiling. Developed in our backyard too, smh

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Sure ... anything can happen. I’d be comfortable betting you $5000 he clears waivers (I know he doesn’t need too).

I'd be extremely comfortable betting you $5000 that if Santa Clause was real (I know he isn't), he wouldn't be jolly.

Wait. Maybe that is where the problem is. Were people expecting White to be more than a Phillip Danault type player? That's exactly the upside potential that I have been wanting White to reach and that will be pretty good. Danault is a pretty good player, not just a "second to third line tweener". 53 pts last season, on pace for 58 pts this year, excellent all around player.

I see that some people are not too familiar with PD...

That's exactly who we need White to become because if we'd have Danault as the 3rd line center, we'd be in pretty good shape.

They will be very different players, but that's a very fair expectation of White's upside. Maybe his absolute upside is higher, but I think Danault is on the higher side of what's reasonable to expect. I do think White can be a much better goal scorer, but 40-60 points with almost unfaltering consistency, and hopefully 50-60 with some degree of consistency, should be seen as pretty close to the ideal outcome.

 

[Sweatred]

Simple question :

WHERE THE HECK DID I QUOTE YOU? Do you see a quote in that post #984?????????????????????

Yes, in the first sentence I mentioned the 5000$ bet but that's it, only time I even thought about you (I really try to avoid your posts as much a possible but you were quoted on this, that's how I saw it). Why did you feel targeted the rest of the way? Because of that first sentence? Like I have always said to people who accused me of this or that over the years when I speak in generality, "If the hat fits, wear it". But I'm not responsible if you feel diminished or this or that and you feel you have to defend yourself. I'm not responsible for poor little kids emotions for Christ's sake.

So before insulting me saying that I have made a pretty stupid claim by accusing you of not knowing what "my" “softmore jinx” was, maybe try to understand what is going on first?

So for that reason and for your little arrogant jab in post #988, I am gladly exposing you now, even though people might have already figured you out. Maybe you should mind your own business and be careful on who you try to **** with?

Now back to White (and for the benefit of others), earlier this year, I was talking about how some people will get fooled by looking at Sens players stats thinking they can draw any conclusion from it. Possible that some people have absolutely no idea what a rebuild is. It goes both ways, thinking White is trash is the same as thinking Duclair was the new Ovechkin after he scored his 21st goal earlier this season (and now hasn't scored in 12 games). Both opinions are extremely foolish.

Colin White is sure not having a great season but he is still on pace (per 82 GP) for 27 points (which he might improve before the end of the season) despite all the established stars/vets gone (add other excuses/reasons if you want) since he started on the team in 2017-18 (Karlsson, Duchene, Stone, Dzingel, Hoffman, Brassard, Phaneuf, etc). OF COURSE, producing numbers in the current context really won't be easy for young players, the team traded a whole first line and one of the best offensive D-man of this generation... Connor Brown and JG Pageau (excellent players but not clear top-6 forwards) are the most used forwards... Seriously, what do we expect?

White turns 23 y/o tomorrow and he will never be an offensive player so producing numbers is not his bread and butter. From what I have seen and read, he has been playing better and that's all that matters for now, that he keeps building himself as a NHL player.

Finally, I'm going to give you a little advice here, maybe you should think about seeing a shrink for your White obsession, it's really getting pathetic.

You answered your own question in your first sentence ... I’m not sure why you even bothered to spew on... not that there is any doubt but who else were you referencing about not understand what a “Y2 jink” is ...

You won’t get it ... but reading people spew on about how good/elite white is is frustrating. Even you are justifying his 27 point season as acceptable. I appreciate your medical advice... You just wrote 1000 words to tell me I’m crazy because it bothers you to read anything negative about CW.. the other options you can consider vs defending him are a) ignore b) open your eyes.

I’m sure you don’t rush to defend a Boro Cop or PD, or Melynk but critiquing your fanboy stings a bit.