Player Discussion Colin White - C/RW

[Xspyrit]

I appreciate that along with the fact that you made a post in under 1000 words so I was able to read the entire post for once.

There aren’t many posters in this forum who see the holes in White’s game so I would expect as much.

If you were smart you’d notice how DJ plays White and recognize that he is aware of those faults too. If you were smart you wouldn’t use my eval on white as a insult toward me... you’d recognize that I am confident and probably closer to accurate with it than the 4000 posts in his contract thread who loved the deal. Instead you spend time (I think you have the second highest number of posts here, or at least words, (maybe less because of the deleted ones) coming up with comments like this.

Let’s hope White comes back stronger and willing to play hard. I’d love to see him carry some of our rookies and secure out Center ice or RW needs. It would be great if he could put up a $4 type season or possibly even start cancelling out some of the negative value he is building up here early on.

As usual, the point, you're missing it completely. Quite surprising for somebody so smart. I'll help you out, it's not about White sucking or not, it's about you having a profound unhealthy obsession.

"If you were smart you’d notice" lol


Everyone already agreed that White struggled last season, but the thing is people not as smart as you are might also look at the context (injury, sophomore season, team sucks, QoT (quality of teammates), season cut short as White was getting hot with 7 points in last 6 games), just turned 23 years old when the season got canceled, etc). Despite all that, White still finished with 23 pts in 61 games (31 pts pace over a full season) with a TOI/GP of 15;42. Will he have to be stronger, better, more assertive, more productive? Of course, everybody also already agreed to that.

So, on behalf of pretty much everyone, for the love of children

Give. it. a. rest.

 

[Samsquanch]

If you were smart you’d notice how DJ plays White and recognize that he is aware of those faults too. .

Here is the thing though.. After the TDL when Pager left, Colin White got tapped by DJ Smith and started to get used in a much bigger role. And then White totally killed it...

View media item 8082
Before Covid had its way with the world, White was playing 17-18mins a night and had 7pts in the last 6 games played. So I wouldnt be assuming anything about how DJ will be using him next season based on how things ended....

And while we certainly cant ignore the horrible start, or that Colin himself is mostly at fault for the lackluster year he just had. I do feel like he was mismanaged by the team at different points this season, and that his remarkable turnaround post TDL has been all but ignored by most fans.

And then Covid happening at the exact moment in the season that he appeared to have broken through and while he was "white" hot - is like the ultimate kick in the pants to Colin when you really look at it.

 

[Sweatred]

Here is the thing though.. After the TDL when Pager left, Colin White got tapped by DJ Smith and started to get used in a much bigger role. And then White totally killed it...

View media item 8082
Before Covid had its way with the world, White was playing 17-18mins a night and had 7pts in the last 6 games played. So I wouldnt be assuming anything about how DJ will be using him next season based on how things ended....

And while we certainly cant ignore the horrible start, or that Colin himself is mostly at fault for the lackluster year he just had. I do feel like he was mismanaged by the team at different points this season, and that his remarkable turnaround post TDL has been all but ignored by most fans.

And then Covid happening at the exact moment in the season that he appeared to have broken through and while he was "white" hot - is like the ultimate kick in the pants to Colin when you really look at it.

Not trying to argue - happy to discuss. I agree that White’s play improved, he showed more confidence, and picked up some points. He was still easy to push off the puck and soft of the puck. Hopefully what we saw was a boost in play and not just some concentrated puck luck. I saw the confidence but I didn’t see protection or play with the puck that I think he needs to carry play in the top 6.

 

[Sweatred]

Apparently the contract is starting to impact player negotiations with internal comparisons ... hopefully not continual problem when Norris, Bath, Brown come up.

 

[OD99]

He should have wanted $14M then because he out produced Bobby by a wide margin.

Any agent would have told Duclair to take that contract and run.

Players make different salaries, this isn't news.

 

[Sweatred]

He should have wanted $14M then because he out produced Bobby by a wide margin.

Any agent would have told Duclair to take that contract and run.

Players make different salaries, this isn't news.

The difference is the Sens paid White after a 14G season. Apparently they thought that was worth a $26 million contact. I think Duc would argue that he could get 14G (or more) too along with some PK etc. Ryan was more a case of underperforming on a contact based off of higher historical scoring.

 

[OD99]

Historical scoring is what the Sens were basing their offer to Duke on as well.

If true that is a very fair offer, particularly as he would have been in a position to get loads of ice time, let NHL revenue go up and cash in again in 3 years. Terrible decision either way and even more so if he wanted to point to what another player received as his line in the sand.

 

[Leafmealone11]

The difference is the Sens paid White after a 14G season. Apparently they thought that was worth a $26 million contact. I think Duc would argue that he could get 14G (or more) too along with some PK etc. Ryan was more a case of underperforming on a contact based off of higher historical scoring.

White has been a long term employee of the sens and decided to stay for the long haul Duclair has played like 80?Games and the last 25% were brutal. If he thought “f u that’s not fair” he needs to stop thinking everyone is out to screw him over.
He made a bad decision

 

[Sweatred]

White has been a long term employee of the sens and decided to stay for the long haul Duclair has played like 80?Games and the last 25% were brutal. If he thought “f u that’s not fair” he needs to stop thinking everyone is out to screw him over.
He made a bad decision

That’s about the same number of NHL games White had ? A season a and bit with some injuries ? I’m sure Duc would sign for 6 years too if we offered him $26+

 

[Sweatred]

Historical scoring is what the Sens were basing their offer to Duke on as well.

If true that is a very fair offer, particularly as he would have been in a position to get loads of ice time, let NHL revenue go up and cash in again in 3 years. Terrible decision either way and even more so if he wanted to point to what another player received as his line in the sand.

I think Wallace is reporting that Duc feels he should get paid the same or more than White because he feels he is as good or better than White, and his season was the same or better than White 2018 season used to award him $4.75/year.

 

[Tuna99]

Apparently the contract is starting to impact player negotiations with internal comparisons ... hopefully not continual problem when Norris, Bath, Brown come up.

Duclair the Agent right now is channeling his inner Jay Mclement and his NHL career is Clarke McArthur and Robin Lehner in the crease.

Duclair is completely wrong so who cares about the comparable. Duke will be lucky to get $5.5 million on a multi year deal let alone a 1 year deal. he won’t even get a total of $4.25 mill the Sens offered him even on a multi year deal.

And you wonder why Duclair with his stats has been on so many teams for a young player. He’s not making it easy on himself. He went from being on waivers to an All Star in Ottawa and completely rehabilitated image with $13 million in guaranteed money for a team that’s a great fit and he said no.

Maybe it works out for the best for him. It did for Lehner and it didn’t for McCarthur

 

[Sweatred]

Who cares, Duclair is completely wrong so who cares about the comparable. Duke will be lucky to get $5.5 million on a multi year deal let alone a 1 year deal.

he won’t even get a total of $4.25 mill the Sens offered him, even on a multi year deal.

And you wonder why Duclair with his stats has been on so many teams for a young player. He’s not making it easy on himself.

Dorion ‘Hey Duke, you like it here, the fans like you, DJ like you, We have rehabilitated you’re image, you’re an All Star - it’s a great fit and we want to see you grow. How about $13 million to play hockey in Ottawa for the next few years’

Duclair - ‘No thanks, I want to play every NHL team there is. That way, when I become an agent I’ll know everyone’

This isn’t a Duc thread - the league is often based in comps and they made the conp that his stats were equal or better than Whites and he wanted to be paid the same. Who cares isn’t really an answer - give your second child 1 scoop of ice cream and the first two scoops - tell them who cares ? That second child may live what you’ve given them but that doesn’t change the fact that you cheated them or at least treated them different.

White’s contract was apparently based on numerous comps around the league. The average pay for guys with negotiated of $20+ goals last year is probably above $5 million.

 

[Leafmealone11]

That’s about the same number of NHL games White had ? A season a and bit with some injuries ? I’m sure Duc would sign for 6 years too if we offered him $26+

White signed a contract with the sens in 2016 he did everything they asked and left collage to work for them, He trained with them and gave them most of his prime years. He didn’t just show up as some guy down on his luck basically out of work and then demand to be paid more than current employees that have worked for years for their position on the team.
It’s not the same thing.

 

[Micklebot]

The comparisson is on it's face completely absurd. 21 year old players that sign deal with term coming off their rookie season are being paid for potential not past performance in the hope that their progression will turn the deal into a bargain over the term of the deal.

25 year old players that have bounced between teams over their short career are going to be hard pressed to convince anyone they project well based on a single season.

Beyond that there's the economics of the timing. While the cap is flat, it's absurd to argue that the market is the same. The league reportedly lost over 500 mil because it lost the tail end of the season. Next season will certainly result in another shortfall again with a compressed season and attendance capped at 6k. White signed his deal at a time when revenue projections were climbing.

If the story about Duclair using White to justify his demands are true, I'm guessing he is startibg to wake up to the realities of the market and why it was unrealistic now that he's been available on the open market for a few weeks with no takers

 

[Sweatred]

White signed a contract with the sens in 2016 he did everything they asked and left collage to work for them, He trained with them and gave them most of his prime years. He didn’t just show up as some guy down on his luck basically out of work and then demand to be paid more than current employees that have worked for years for their position on the team.
It’s not the same thing.

He signed an ELC, got hurt a bunch, and played average in the AHL... those aren’t really auto markets for huge contracts. If so Logan should be happy although he’s been much better in the AHl. Anyway, no point arguing about - if you see White deserving $26 and Duc deserving $12 or whatever. The point of the article was that players are already thinking they are better than White and likely annoyed at being paid offered less.

Many here have suggested that internal comps would had no impact on our RFA’s and clearly it is starting.

 

[Leafmealone11]

He signed an ELC, got hurt a bunch, and played average in the AHL... those aren’t really auto markets for huge contracts. If so Logan should be happy. Anyway, no point arguing about - if you see White deserving $26 and Duc deserving $12 or whatever. The point of the article was that players are already thinking they are better than White and likely annoyed at being paid less.

Many wanted to suggest that internal comps had no impact and clearly it is starting.

Oh no they paid too much for White and Chabot but Duc is just wrong. I don’t think Duclair is worth that risk either and I would be surprised if he can find 2 years at 3 million a year.
The guy thinks everyone is out to get him, he won’t trust an agent or sign a deal the whole world thinks is fair. His last 20+ games with the sens tanked his value and that deal is way more than anyone would have expected.
Internal comps work when all things are equal. He did not train with and spend his entire professional career working for the sens.
He did not show he could keep up the pace and after mark Stone burned them and found the fasted way to UFA they were not going to let Duclair get in one year then run off making them look cheap and like the bad guys.

 

[Sweatred]

The comparisson is on it's face completely absurd. 21 year old players that sign deal with term coming off their rookie season are being paid for potential not past performance in the hope that their progression will turn the deal into a bargain over the term of the deal.

25 year old players that have bounced between teams over their short career are going to be hard pressed to convince anyone they project well based on a single season.

Beyond that there's the economics of the timing. While the cap is flat, it's absurd to argue that the market is the same. The league reportedly lost over 500 mil because it lost the tail end of the season. Next season will certainly result in another shortfall again with a compressed season and attendance capped at 6k. White signed his deal at a time when revenue projections were climbing.

If the story about Duclair using White to justify his demands are true, I'm guessing he is startibg to wake up to the realities of the market and why it was unrealistic now that he's been available on the open market for a few weeks with no takers

Duclair using White as a comp isn’t absurd.... and you saying it is certainly doesn't make it such.

Where does it say White is only paid for his “potential” ? How can a 25 year old not be paid for his history and potential too? I see lots of contracts that have nothing to do with “potential” for players off their ELC’s

It’s easier to SPIN White’s contract as a “mistake” and just suggest that Duclair isn’t worth $5 but I get that many don’t want to do that. The media appears to be confident enough that they have started labeling it for what it is.

Ottawa Senators: Move or Keep Anthony Duclair?

 

[Sweatred]

Oh no they paid too much for White and Chabot but Duc is just wrong. I don’t think Duclair is worth that risk either and I would be surprised if he can find 2 years at 3 million a year.
The guy thinks everyone is out to get him, he won’t trust an agent or sign a deal the whole world thinks is fair. His last 20+ games with the sens tanked his value and that deal is way more than anyone would have expected.
Internal comps work when all things are equal. He did not train with and spend his entire professional career working for the sens.
He did not show he could keep up the pace and after mark Stone burned them and found the fasted way to UFA they were not going to let Duclair get in one year then run off making them look cheap and like the bad guys.

Okay, I agree with the way you framed this. I think your internal comp perspective part is a bit limited but in the end I wish White made about $1.8-$2.5 and Duc maybe $3 or whatever.

 

[Micklebot]

Duclair using White as a comp isn’t absurd.... and you saying it is certainly doesn't make it such.

Where does it say White is only paid for his “potential” ? How can a 25 year old not be paid for his history and potential too? I see lots of contracts that have nothing to do with “potential” for players off their ELC’s

It’s easier to SPIN White’s contract as a “mistake” and just suggest that Duclair isn’t worth $5 but I get that many don’t want to do that.

Ottawa Senators: Move or Keep Anthony Duclair?

I didn't mean to suggest that he was paid exclusively for potential, i thought that was pretty obvious, the point was the balance leaned twards potential for White, and for Duclair it leans further towards past performance.

There is no spin here, these are simple concepts. Younger players are more likely to improve going forward than older players. Rookies are more likely to improve than guys coming off their 5th season. The concept is supported by historical examples. Is it foolproof? Of course not, but these trends factor into contracts.

In the end, comparing White and Duclair contract negotiations is a weak argument to make as the circumstances and past differ so greatly. It's not because i said so, its because years of examples have shown us that it is the case.

 

[Sweatred]

I didn't mean to suggest that he was paid exclusively for potential, i thought that was pretty obvious, the point was the balance leaned twards potential for White, and for Duclair it leans further towards past performance.

There is no spin here, these are simple concepts. Younger players are more likely to improve going forward than older players. Rookies are more likely to improve than guys coming off their 5th season. The concept is supported by historical examples. Is it foolproof? Of course not, but these trends factor into contracts.

In the end, comparing White and Duclair contract negotiations is a weak argument to make as the circumstances and past differ so greatly. It's not because i said so, its because years of examples have shown us that it is the case.

Paying players off ELC’s for their draft status and their potential is the mistake. Most teams don’t sign those types of deals. They wait for the player to demonstrate the ability before they open the vault. If that were the case Brown, Bath, Brann, and Norris would be thrilled getting their $26 million soon.

 

[BatherSeason]

Why is there two Colin White threads?

 

[Sweatred]

Why is there two Colin White threads?

Same reason there are 2475 Melynk is cheap threads ?

 

[BatherSeason]

Same reason there are 2475 Melynk is cheap threads ?

Can you please count them and confirm your numbers?

 

[Sweatred]

Can you please count them and confirm your numbers?

I already did that the first time … if you don't believe me count them yourself.

 

[Xspyrit]

Why is there only Colin White threads?

Fixed.