Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: The Sid, Fleury, & Geno Show (Pens vs. Lightning)

[Phenom97]

After seeing that Crosby goal, am I the only one wondering what it would be like to see letang play as a wing with Crosby? I think it could work. We also have enough defenders to fill the hole.

 

[sf expat71]

After seeing that Crosby goal, am I the only one wondering what it would be like to see letang play as a wing with Crosby? I think it could work. We also have enough defenders to fill the hole.

No thanks. Without Letang, our defensive corps would look pretty mediocre. Passes like those are generally effective because he is a defenseman, they generally are given more time and space than forwards in the offensive zone. If it ain't broke....

 

[SidGenoMario]

I like the idea of Letang on Crosby's wing, but I'd rather just put Crosby in goal. It's been obvious for years that we've had an overabundance of high quality centers, but not enough consistent goatlending. The math adds up, putting one of our centers between the pipes fixes all our problems. He's made enough highlight reel saves in his career to show he's got the talent, and he plays goalie in road hockey games in the offseason. He's surely better than MAF.

 

[metalan2]

After seeing that Crosby goal, am I the only one wondering what it would be like to see letang play as a wing with Crosby? I think it could work. We also have enough defenders to fill the hole.

I've always wanted to play Letang on the left wing during a powerplay. I guarantee you that would work.

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

SOme creative ideas out there lol.

+ Kunitz for seemingly working on finding soft spots and one timers. I can't remember Kunitz ever finding himself ready to rip it this often. Fully opened for the one-timer.

++ Crosby and Malkin. Genos goal was out of control and crosby battled hard all night. really looked like Sid is coming back around. Very good in the dirty areas tonight.

+ saw the forwards doing better with unit defense and cover players dropping into the high slot with much better efficiency

+ Fleury - he looked good and stable all game. He made a few good saves on Stammer which kept the lightning from gaining momentum.

 

[End of Line]

After seeing that Crosby goal, am I the only one wondering what it would be like to see letang play as a wing with Crosby? I think it could work. We also have enough defenders to fill the hole.

No. Letang is a defenseman.

 

[Malkin4Top6Wingerz]

Again, if DB, who loves his vets, took Neal off the Crosby line, that is a direct indictment of his play. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous. He was hurting that line and had to be removed. Deal with it or make up more excuses for him.

Neal played what, three games on Sid's wing? Pretty much the first three he's ever played with him? I doubt there was a message being sent while the likes of TK continue to get a free pass on the third line. DB's original plan was to play Neal with Sutter, if you recall, and with the Sid-Kunitz-Dupuis line being as effective as it's been it makes sense to move Neal down and try to establish some secondary scoring. And that's all it was.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

After seeing that Crosby goal, am I the only one wondering what it would be like to see letang play as a wing with Crosby? I think it could work. We also have enough defenders to fill the hole.

Didn't Therrien try playing both Letang and Goligoski on the wing at one point during his last season as HC? Not something I'm at all for experimenting with again.

 

[SteelFish87*]

Didn't Therrien try playing both Letang and Goligoski on the wing at one point during his last season as HC? Not something I'm at all for experimenting with again.

Don't remember that. He played Orpik on wing lol

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Don't remember that. He played Orpik on wing lol

I'm pretty sure he tried it with both Gogo and Letang as well.

 

[#66]

Letang and a mobile defense is needed in this system because when teams adjust to the stretch pass, the centers and defense are forced to carry pucks up ice. This is why the Pens spend money and draftpicks on defense.

I'm more for transitional wingers going up and down their wing while the defense can just stand tight around MAF. Those wingers wouldn't be shoot first players like Kovy or Kessel but more like Elias and JPom. Players that can make plays and have some poise while going up and down the wing.

IMO this past TB game was Letangs best of the year. Great passes all over the ice and he curbed some of his bad habits.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Neal was already playing hard AND scoring goals when they locked him up last season. Why do you continue to use this lame excuse to support an already weak argument?

I suppose when you are grasping at straws....

That's where we differ. I don't think there's an appreciable difference in how Neal's playing this year. The difference on that line is that Malkin's been a little more haphazard with the puck, and we've replaced a well-rounded 50-60 point player with a rotating cast of waiver fodder, healthy scratches, and bottom 6 grinders.

I'm one of the rare few has been defending him since last Summer, should I blindly agree with all of his decisions?

Again, if DB, who loves his vets, took Neal off the Crosby line, that is a direct indictment of his play. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous. He was hurting that line and had to be removed. Deal with it or make up more excuses for him.

Moving Neal off Crosby's line is not a direct indictment of Neal's play. You have inferred that, and made a logical leap.

It could be as simple as DB wanting to go back to an established chemistry that had been firing on all cylinders. History's shown that reading off Crosby can be difficult to begin with, even for established star wingers.

Or the blown assignments Neal has made a routine of since the start of the season. Take your pick.

And once again, what does Malkin have to do with Neal being taken off of Crosby's line?

Let's not let facts get in the way of blatant homerism though.

Nothing you've said here is a fact. It's an interpretation.

My argument involved Malkin because trying to pin the line's struggles at even-strength on Neal is misguided, IMHO. There are other factors at work.

Malkin is one of the best board players in the league. Saying he is isn't good in 50/50 battles is absurd. That has long been his strength since his Metallurg days.

I completely disagree.

How the hell is that a lie? The three players you "agreed" on: Lucic, Kane and Hartnell all had at least 50 more hits than Neal last season.

You can blow off Backes, but he had around twice as many hits as Neal last season as well.

You are confused in what I was referring to. Check the sequence of posts. I bolded "Backes, Hartnell, Lucic, Kane, Horton, Perry, etc", and clearly "all" those players are not more prolific hitters than Neal.

This is about Neal, not Malkin. I also said before Malkin needs to smarten up, but he scores goals, so it's ok.

Then if you're going to try to find a scapegoat for the line's even-strength troubles, don't criticize Neal for something Malkin's twice as bad for.

Perry gets most of his goals by going to the net and getting his nose dirty. There is no reason Neal can't play a similar game. As we saw last night (for one period) he is unreal when he actually feels like trying.

Neal simply isn't as skilled as Perry, and holding him to that standard is unreasonable. The guy's one year removed from being the league MVP, man.

Neal is a phenomenal sniper, as well as a pretty physical player and a decent defensive player. We should appreciate him for what he is instead of criticizing him for what he clearly isn't.

The kaleidoscope keeps things looking pretty, so it's tough to put it down. It's ok if reality scares you.

Oh brother.

The facts show Malkin's line is struggling to score at ES and Neal got booted from the top line by his coach. Too bad you can't connect the dots.

Believe it or not Jig, there are alternate interpretations that better explain why a coach might change his line-up than the idea that he's fed-up with the league's 2nd leading goal-scorer.

Expecting him to pick up his play and work harder may be offensive to you, but he has shown in the past he can be a disruptive force when he is actually trying.

Wanting him to be that player again is far from nitpicking and jumping on his case for no reason. Without that player back, this team will have a hell of a time making a cup run.

I'd love for all my team's players to play their best game every game. I just think Neal's performance this year on the whole is the least of our worries at this point.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's where we differ. I don't think there's an appreciable difference in how Neal's playing this year. The difference on that line is that Malkin's been a little more haphazard with the puck, and we've replaced a well-rounded 50-60 point player with a rotating cast of waiver fodder, healthy scratches, and bottom 6 grinders.

There is a difference. Some people choose to see it, others prefer to allow his goal scoring prowess to fool them.

As for the rotating wing: The line also has the reigning Art Ross winner and a 40 goal scorer. If both players were playing better, that line wouldn't be struggling like it is.

Again, excuses.

Moving Neal off Crosby's line is not a direct indictment of Neal's play. You have inferred that, and made a logical leap.

It could be as simple as DB wanting to go back to an established chemistry that had been firing on all cylinders. History's shown that reading off Crosby can be difficult to begin with, even for established star wingers.

If a "sniper" like Neal is removed from Crosby's line, it takes little logic to understand why he was removed. All one had to do was watch his lackadaisical play. If he was playing harder DB most certainly would not have removed him for chemistry reasons.

More excuses.

Nothing you've said here is a fact. It's an interpretation.

My argument involved Malkin because trying to pin the line's struggles at even-strength on Neal is misguided, IMHO. There are other factors at work.

And what you said is factual? Please.

You brought Malkin into this, not me. I've already called him out for playing stupid. You are the one who is so offended others expect Neal to actually try hard.

I completely disagree.

I won't lose sleep over it.

You are confused in what I was referring to. Check the sequence of posts. I bolded "Backes, Hartnell, Lucic, Kane, Horton, Perry, etc", and clearly "all" those players are not more prolific hitters than Neal.

Uh, only Perry and Horton hit less than Neal and we both agree Perry is a better player. The only guy left is Horton who is capable of creating on his own. All of these guys work harder for their goals than Neal and all of them can carry the puck and take it to the net.

When is the last time Neal battled in front of the net and banged in a goal or put his shoulder down and drove to the net with the puck?

Let me guess... He's a sniper, he isn't capable of that.

Right.

Then if you're going to try to find a scapegoat for the line's even-strength troubles, don't criticize Neal for something Malkin's twice as bad for.

As I've said already, I called out both players several times before this. Neal is responsible for his own lazy play, despite your efforts to shift the blame away from him.

Neal simply isn't as skilled as Perry, and holding him to that standard is unreasonable. The guy's one year removed from being the league MVP, man.

Neal is a phenomenal sniper, as well as a pretty physical player and a decent defensive player. We should appreciate him for what he is instead of criticizing him for what he clearly isn't.

You keep insiting I'm holding him to some standard other than his own.

Perry works his ass off for his points. He isn't a deft stick handler or gifted skater. The difference is he is gives max effort every shift. He isn't shy about getting in guys faces and paying a physical price.

Oh brother.

Don't blame him for the pretty colors you see.

Believe it or not Jig, there are alternate interpretations that better explain why a coach might change his line-up than the idea that he's fed-up with the league's 2nd leading goal-scorer.

Or maybe the league's second leading goal scorer wasn't playing hard enough, so he was removed.

I'd love for all my team's players to play their best game every game. I just think Neal's performance this year on the whole is the least of our worries at this point.

So you feel the Pens can win in the playoffs with a second line that can't produce ES? That's interesting.

You feel like its ok for a guy to half ass it because he scores goals, cool. Maybe that's what your coaches taught you. I really have no idea to be honest.

I was taught you play hard every shift, regardless of your role on the team, so when a guy dogs it, I don't like it. That's me, oh well. I stuck by Neal when he first came here and people freaked because he wasn't scoring. I couldn't compliment him enough last season. Now when I see him playing lazy hockey, I will point it out. If it offends you I expect him to try harder, I'm sure you will get over it.

Anyone who thinks Neal is playing hard every shift needs to pay closer attention, because up until this point, he has only done that in a handful of games this season.

Others see it. I see it. Sadly, you don't.