Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: POWERPLAY GOALS, ZAR, EMPTY NETTERS

[Icarium]

I’m tired of giving crappy players a chance. I was told our goalie tandem would be fine. I was told that our free agents we signed would be fine. I was tired of being told this team finished 7th in the regular season last year, so we would be fine.

Sometimes you know when something is a bad idea or won’t work...

If you complain all the time, sometimes you are proven right. Truly amazing insight.

 

[Pens x]

If you complain all the time, sometimes you are proven right. Truly amazing insight.

Well, when your GM made awful decisions as of late, it makes it tough to be optimistic. I can’t put blinders on simply because it’s the Penguins. I said all off season the Murray trade was solid.

If JR made good moves, I would admit it. But his recent body of work was disastrous.

 

[Pens x]

I'm a cynic by nature. I thought Rutherford left this team in a total state of disrepair. But for all of his screw ups in the last 24 months, I see from the last two games how Hextall can fix it for this season.

As I keep saying, the 2nd line mix and goaltending are your two red flags.

Hextall has Zucker and one of the injured LD he could move. Those pieces are enough. He doesn't need non existent futures.

The other things like bottom 6 mix . . . I'm not worried. He has the secondary and tertiary pieces to tweak.

That said, Hextall has to be right like Rutherford got the 2015-2016 in season moves right.

But at least I can visualize what the GM can do to position this club to be more than one and done, which is a lot more than I could've said a month ago.

I agree with you. He can make some changes to make this team a decent playoff squad. We have 0 prospects and no first round picks, but he has McCann, Zucker, and some defensemen to deal.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jank scored in his two games; you know BART won’t keep this up. ZAR will fade back to his normal fourth line abilities.

Ya, he probably will and I already said that.

BART will still be the best third line they have had in the last few years.

Not sure where you think all these amazing third liners are going to come from.

 

[BHD]

The HBK line was phenomenal. However, that was only for a handful of months. All of them we’re having lacklustre seasons before Sullivan put the line together out of necessity.

Not too many teams get to have players like Staal and Kessel on their third line for separate Cup runs.

 

[Pens x]

Ya, he probably will and I already said that.

BART will still be the best third line they have had in the last few years.

Not sure where you think all these amazing third liners are going to come from.

The fact that we’ve had crappy bottom six players for several years doesn’t magically make BART a respectable NHL third line because you think these clowns are better than players we previously had.

Again, many posters criticized that line when it was only our fourth. I just don’t see how you go from that to complimenting the unit as our third line, it makes no sense.

Always ask yourself if the Flyers made this same decision, would you criticize them? If the Flyers made their average fourth line their third line this year, I would talk crap.

 

[Gurglesons]

The HBK line was phenomenal. However, that was only for a handful of months. All of them we’re having lacklustre seasons before Sullivan put the line together out of necessity.

So what you are saying is put Zucker - Jankowski - Lafferty together and they’ll be a powerhouse?

 

[BHD]

So what you are saying is put Zucker - Jankowski - Lafferty together and they’ll be a powerhouse?

The La Jay Z line.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't agree in full, but I understand where y'all are coming from. The difference between aging Caps and aging Pens is simply a powerplay that is dynamic. If the Pens found a dynamic powerplay and made 1 or 2 small hockey trades to get that L3 rolling, I think the team is good enough.

But we would need Jarry or DeSmith to start performing. I want to reiterate again because it blows my mind. We chose to stick with two average NHL goalies. So this should have been just about the expectation. They ain't winning us games left and right. They just have to simply not lose them for us and our team has to deliver.

I’d argue the biggest difference is the Capitals don’t stab themselves in the foot when they lose. They get outplayed.

I can’t think of a game this year where the Pens didn’t beat themselves rather than lose outright.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm a cynic by nature. I thought Rutherford left this team in a total state of disrepair. But for all of his screw ups in the last 24 months, I see from the last two games how Hextall can fix it for this season.

As I keep saying, the 2nd line mix and goaltending are your two red flags.

Hextall has Zucker and one of the injured LD he could move. Those pieces are enough. He doesn't need non existent futures.

The other things like bottom 6 mix . . . I'm not worried. He has the secondary and tertiary pieces to tweak.

That said, Hextall has to be right like Rutherford got the 2015-2016 in season moves right.

But at least I can visualize what the GM can do to position this club to be more than one and done, which is a lot more than I could've said a month ago.

Zucker - McCann - Sceviour is a line that has an identity and can mimic what Kahun - McCann - Hornqvist did for the team last winter.

That of course leaves a gaping hole for Malkin on 2nd LW. But hasn’t that been an issue since 2009?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You know the BART line will do their job.

But you need another functional bottom six line.

IMO the should look for a winger with some offensive creativity (Kahun like) and put McCann at C with that guy and whoever (ERod, Sceviour, O’Connor etc)

 

[BHD]

That’s the thing. This team will put together strong shifts that lead to goals, and then they’ll blow it. Plus, the goaltenders haven’t helped the cause.

 

[Tom Hanks]

That’s the thing. This team will put together strong shifts that lead to goals, and then they’ll blow it. Plus, the goaltenders haven’t helped the cause.

I feel like that’s been the Penguins way for a long time. When we blow less we get cups

 

[ColePens]

I’d argue the biggest difference is the Capitals don’t stab themselves in the foot when they lose. They get outplayed.

I can’t think of a game this year where the Pens didn’t beat themselves rather than lose outright.

100%. I don't know if everyone else can feel it, but it is like a lapse of judgement. It's like you watch the players just relax a bit and not focus on what is needed. You can feel it.

For example, I'll touch on the Barzal goal against POJ. That is one of the best hockey players in the league going against a rookie defender. Sid is close enough to support defensively, but chooses to let POJ go 1 on 1 because that would take a lot of effort to put the head down and go back to support. That lack of urgency is really messed up when we need wins. At that point in the game, that had to be a head down moment to support POJ. I would almost guarantee that goal doesn't go in.

And i'm not just attacking Sid. EVERY player has these moments each game on our team.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

So what you are saying is put Zucker - Jankowski - Lafferty together and they’ll be a powerhouse?

I am pretty sure a Zucker - Jankowski - Kapanen line would be a GREAT third line... but who the f*** does Geno play with

 

[vodeni]

Kapanen is not a top 6 player. He has tunnel vision and doesn't know when to make a play, wait for a trailer or just hold onto the puck. I still can't believe the assets that JR dumped to get a 3rd line player.

Then you have Zucker who doesn't mesh well with Malkin, who doesn't support the ongoing play which is dangerous when there's a guy who doesn't know what's happening on the other wing. I don't trust his commitment either, this is a guy who more than anyone in the league was hurt by a trade due to the agreement with his kids. There's no way he's happy playing for Pittsburgh. I get the same feeling from him as I did from Brassard with his body language

although I agree with this in general, he is top six for Pens, we got no other options, so they have to find ways to this to work,

 

[vodeni]

Yep. And people just need to be patient with Zucker and Geno. The underlying possession stats are there. As Malkin gets out of his slump, the production will increase.

I have been the one beating this drum, but lately watching and rewatching their play I am more convinced that Kappy is the problem not Zucker...don't take me wrong they still bump at each other, Zucker still seems don't know what to do with the puck when he is suppose to give and go...but I feel he could be a really good option...I think them trying to make Guentzel 2.0 is a mistake, he should be more Horny 2.0 and find someone else for that Jake 2.0 role on the second line. Kappy is not that...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The fact that we’ve had crappy bottom six players for several years doesn’t magically make BART a respectable NHL third line because you think these clowns are better than players we previously had.

Again, many posters criticized that line when it was only our fourth. I just don’t see how you go from that to complimenting the unit as our third line, it makes no sense.

Always ask yourself if the Flyers made this same decision, would you criticize them? If the Flyers made their average fourth line their third line this year, I would talk crap.

You aren’t living in reality cuz.

I’m constantly asking myself “what is their best hope of making the playoffs and not giving the Wild a top 10 pick?”

I’m living within the parameters of reality... the reality where:

- they have basically no picks or prospects to fix anything

- Crosby and Malkin are aging

- Letang is more liability than the #1 he used to be

- the second line is a mess

- the fourth line blows

And you want to bitch about BART like this is some contending team and that line will hold them back?

Where is your head bro?

 

[SEALBound]

If you complain all the time, sometimes you are proven right. Truly amazing insight.

When you throw enough shit at a wall, eventually something sticks. The sad part is, the thrower seems to think it justifies the other million times they are wrong.

 

[KIRK]

Zucker - McCann - Sceviour is a line that has an identity and can mimic what Kahun - McCann - Hornqvist did for the team last winter.

That of course leaves a gaping hole for Malkin on 2nd LW. But hasn’t that been an issue since 2009?

Yes, but it's not 2009.

That said, IF you trusted your goaltending-- or trusted it enough to address it later with a 2nd round pick-- then a Dumo/Pets for L2 LW deal is more than doable, both in terms of value and cap space, yes?

Doesn't need to be some uber talented guy, but for want of a better expression, I think you want someone with a little size and ugly to his game who has enough skill to fit (a Nick Foligno circa a few years ago type).

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, but it's not 2009.

That said, IF you trusted your goaltending-- or trusted it enough to address it later with a 2nd round pick-- then a Dumo/Pets for L2 LW deal is more than doable, both in terms of value and cap space, yes?

Doesn't need to be some uber talented guy, but for want of a better expression, I think you want someone with a little size and ugly to his game who has enough skill to fit (a Nick Foligno circa a few years ago type).

I’m trying to think of fits that are actually reality.

Jersey has a bunch of LWs that I think are cheap enough to acquire, but I don’t think they are realistically trading with us.

I keep coming back to Boone Jenner. Maybe Silfverberg.. but he is a RW.

 

[chethejet]

Lets give the second line some time here. Sometimes it is about comfort level and chemistry being developed in playing games. Are they a fit, who knows, but this team will be a tough out if the second line plays better. With the return of the D and Jarry getting the benefit of better talent on D lets see what changes are needed as the new guys see what is what.

 

[KIRK]

I’m trying to think of fits that are actually reality.

Jersey has a bunch of LWs that I think are cheap enough to acquire, but I don’t think they are realistically trading with us.

I keep coming back to Boone Jenner.

The Blue Jackets certainly could use the LD. Desperately.

The big hiccup though is that's a team desperate for centers, and I'm seeing he's their 3C right now.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Blue Jackets certainly could use the LD. Desperately.

The big hiccup though is that's a team desperate for centers, and I'm seeing he's their 3C right now.

I’d assume the deal would be around McCann.

 

[KIRK]

give the second line some time here. Sometimes is is about comfort level and chemistry being developed in playing games. Are they a fit, who knows, but this team will be a tough out if the second line plays better. With the return of the D and Jarry getting the benefit of better talent on D lets see what changes are needed as the new guys see what is what.

Okay, name 1 good Malkin line that ever developed chemistry over time.

It's certainly logical what you're saying, but the specific history of a Malkin line is that instant chemistry and results are a prerequisite for (although not necessarily a guarantor of) a successful, enduring Malkin line.