Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Stars -- Matt Murray is damn good!

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Gurglesons

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When you have so many all of them can't start on the 4th line.

Sheary, Rust, Wilson and Kuhnhackl. It literally can't be feasible. Just because they played there at times doesn't mean they were staying there. They all played up in the lineup It's not even being on the 4th line that bothers me, it's the miniscule minutes.

That's just dumbfounding.

So, what’s your take on the minuscule minutes for Teddy and how he has somehow worked passed it?

You do realize it was a tight game at ES.

The third line has been a great line. The 1st line is our only scoring threat the last couple nights and McCann and Kessel’s line tied the game.

Are you honestly advocating taking away minutes from those lines so Adam f***ing Johnson can play?

Or are you one of those people that thinks Simon is a dime a dozen? And must be replaced at any cost since Kuhnhackl / Kunitz / Dupuis / Kennedy / etc. are no longer here.
 
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cygnus47

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Eh, I think it was a bit fast to say the Pens developed McCann. I'd say they put him in a position to succeed and he's taken the opportunity so far. Anything further would be developing him.
 
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WayneSid9987

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Nov 24, 2009
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Yea, McCann was turning into a fine player in his own right in FLA but coming here with a roster thats goes to the PO's yearly with guys like Sid/G, etc. showing him their work habits/the opportunity/good coaching, etc. etc. he had all the tools with the youth still to potentially take off.
It's still early but things are looking up on that taking off part.

Johnson's very green and they probably are working more towards showing him the ropes this year so he's ready for full time next season.
Wilson will play over him once Geno is healthy.
 

AlphaMikeFoxtrots

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I don’t buy that, the guy is only 31 and he’s in tremendous shape, it’s not like he was 41

True, but that also doesn't negate the general toll of having to be responsible for the bulk of the offense for a vast majority of the season. All things being equal, without him and Jake + whoever fills out the line, this season is lotteryville, don't you think? Way too many games where they've been the only ones finding the net.
 

Peat

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Yep, As was ZAR, Jake etc...they all came out of four years of college...”development” is for players starting as professional players at 18-20...

If this is the standard, then few NHL teams develop significant parts of their rosters and this conversation is completely moot. We can't develop any better or any worse than other NHL teams when pretty much nobody develops, particularly when talking successful teams who rarely have the top draft picks.

And yet every NHL team has their player development coaches so clearly they think they're developing something. And most of those guys are talking about guys coming out of college like they're their responsibility.

I don't think it makes sense to hold a definition on development in the NHL that is different to what the NHL itself uses. Although I would say that as I think they're right. If a player comes into your organisation and becomes a better player, that's development.

Which is why I'm on the side of "This is a team that's good at developing". We've had so many young players come in here and come on leaps and bounds that it makes no sense to me to say otherwise. And to go back to your very original point, I don't think it makes sense to claim the org blocks all young players when this team is littered with players who got their first pro contract with us.

At the very least, whatever definition one prefers to use, whatever it is that happens when teams take NCAA players and young free agents and what not and turns them into NHL players, is something this team is good at.

Not at all. Thing is, it's not the standard as it was when Sully first got here where they were forced into going with the youngsters not being able to do anymore additions. That first wave. Rust, Sheary, Wilson and Kuhnhackl. Guentzel was a given, but this second/third wave isn't as good as the first was as a whole, Guentzel being the only real standout. Lock.

Give me ZAR/Simon/Sprong/Blueger over Rust/Sheary/Wilson/Kuhnhackl any day.

The Pens didn't develope him, like at all. He's been in this league from day 1. The Pens gift from Florida.

I think you can already see the improvements in McCann's game. I think he's using his team mates better and I think you can see the Sid'isms slipping in there (attempted bank shots off the goalies and stuff). Plus he only really emerged as a PKer here.

Small stuff and I don't think it makes sense to claim he's a guy we've developed just yet, but he's still developing. If he settles into a top 6 role here after not find that anywhere else, I think we should be able to claim development.

Gudbranson, Mccann, and Bjugstad seem like really good locker room guys. You can tell they're just positive upbeat guys who will play hard and have good attitudes.

Does that help with winning? Hell if I know. There's no way to quantify it. But I think having those types of attitudes probably does contribute to a winning atmosphere and a focused team.

It helps. It absolutely helps. Everyone rags on it when its used to justify the spots given to not very good players but everyone who knows anything about sports knows the difference it makes.

Tampa Bay has nothing left to play for though. Not sure that is necessarily going to be a hard game.

That's been de facto true for a while though and it hasn't stopped them casually smashing a few people's dreams just because they can.
 

Shrimper

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Jared McCann has as many short-handed goals for us as Brassard has in entirety at Colorado.

The more we go along, the more that trade has been brilliant.

Last night was only the 3rd game that Gudbranson has had below 50% CF with us. The others being that Montreal game and the 5-0 vs Buffalo. It was the most High Danger Chances he's had against with us though with 6.
 
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chethejet

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Feb 4, 2012
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Pens d was really poor last night. Murray bailed them out big time. sully needs to see why and correct that. This layered D approach with a lead especially is like the prevent D in the NFL. Remind me again what exactly does it prevent. Let the players be aggressive and don't limit their game.
 
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Shrimper

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Pens d was really poor last night. Murray bailed them out big time. sully needs to see why and correct that. This layered D approach with a lead especially is like the prevent D in the NFL. Remind me again what exactly does it prevent. Let the players be aggressive and don't limit their game.

Too be fair. I think the previous few games before that the D has done quiet well I think.

One bad game but as long as they make adjustments it should be fine.
 

Icarium

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Feb 16, 2010
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When Bjugstad missed that 2 on 0 a few minutes I said to myself "Here we go again" and I am sure many of you thought the same. :) But Murray was immense, kudos to him. McCann's winner was just filthy and Phil finally made a decisive even strength contribution for the second goal. Now, if only Bjugstad and Horny could convert a tenth of the chances they create, that line would be awesome.

This was easily our worst game on this road trip and ended up our only regulation win, hockey can be funny that way. Every time Crosby's line was on the ice there seemed to be great chances, mostly for the Stars, not exactly the way I want to see the Pens play. My nerves won't take a few more tense final minutes in a row like that, so please get a good lead next time, guys. :) Though, they will probably become complacent and lost to the Rangers.

Blueger looks like he belongs in the NHL which is great to see, it would be a shame to send him to line 4 when Geno is back but that line needs to improve and play more, so that the other lines can rest more, so it will probably work out well. Guentzel could have had a hat-trick with a bit of luck, ditto for McCann, so despite the sloppy defence I wouldn't say that we didn't deserve to win. Nice to special teams being decisive for our win. Now, please win the easier games remaining, don't get injured and get ready for the playoffs.
 

UnrealMachine

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Don't post often but watched the McCann sh goal. Holy **** was that beautiful. His speed to get there was fantastic.

Everything about that goal was amazing. What I love most about it is that he didn't just blindly throw a backhanded shot after the 360. He briefly regathers the puck and reads the goalie before putting the shot on net. And he does it all in one seamless motion!

Lost in the shuffle is the really nice play Bleuger made to pass it to himself and then setup McCann perfectly. However, I just still can't get over that terrible 2nd goal against by Murray LATE in the 2nd period. Really makes you wonder if he is still injured, isn't over his father's passing or his first couple of cups, err seasons were just a fluke?
 

ncm7772

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However, I just still can't get over that terrible 2nd goal against by Murray LATE in the 2nd period. Really makes you wonder if he is still injured, isn't over his father's passing or his first couple of cups, err seasons were just a fluke?

I still just can't get over your asinine opinion of Matt Murray. It makes me wonder if you don't actually watch the games, aren't over the loss of the Yinzer Jesus, or have something against, err you simply root for him to fail.
 

Nakawick

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McCann would have been 9 when Sid was playing in the NHL. Sid was probably his hero. Sometimes being in a situation where expectations are high and playing with generational talent(s) can be a strong motivator on its own.
 
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Fordy

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However, I just still can't get over that terrible 2nd goal against by Murray LATE in the 2nd period. Really makes you wonder if he is still injured, isn't over his father's passing or his first couple of cups, err seasons were just a fluke?
is this a joke? actually, like, what's wrong with you? what a ridiculous comment to make
 

ChaosAgent

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I still just can't get over your asinine opinion of Matt Murray. It makes me wonder if you don't actually watch the games, aren't over the loss of the Yinzer Jesus, or have something against, err you simply root for him to fail.

You missed his sarcasm.
 
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CrosbyMalkin

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Eh, I think it was a bit fast to say the Pens developed McCann. I'd say they put him in a position to succeed and he's taken the opportunity so far. Anything further would be developing him.

McCann is developing daily with the Pens and that had been talked about a ton during Pens broadcasts. They say he has been watching everything Sid does. The kid is definitely still developing and so is Pettersson. When Pens scout out a player they want to trade for they have a plan in place for what is needed to fix that persons game and believe the player has upside to develop more. Pens with Rutherford looks for players like that. Of course they have developed many of their abilities before they came to the Pens but it is an on going process.

I agree with you on about putting a player in a position to succeed. I think a player that fits that is Gudbranson because he was put right into the lineup playing 20 minutes a nigbt and looked good from the start. His first couple games he had a few positioning things but that was obviously addressed by Gonchar.

In McCann’s situation Pens saw more upside than what he was producing with Panthers. At 22 his development is a work in progress.
 
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Rossi Rat

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Not that we should really care about SportsCenter/ESPN, but McCann’s spin-o-rama made #6 on their Top 10.

Carolina’s basketball celly was #4.

JK - it was #8. Would have been hilariously fitting if it was higher.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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McCann is developing daily with the Pens and that had been talked about a ton during Pens broadcasts. They say he has been watching everything Sid does. The kid is definitely still developing and so is Pettersson. When Pens scout out a player they want to trade for they have a plan in place for what is needed to fix that persons game and believe the player has upside to develop more. Pens with Rutherford looks for players like that. Of course they have developed many of their abilities before they came to the Pens but it is an on going process.

I agree with you on about putting a player in a position to succeed. I think a player that fits that is Gudbranson because he was put right into the lineup playing 20 minutes a nigbt and looked good from the start. His first couple games he had a few positioning things but that was obviously addressed by Gonchar.

In McCann’s situation Pens saw more upside than what he was producing with Panthers. At 22 his development is a work in progress.

McCann is a beautiful disaster right now. Last night was a perfect example of where he is at right now... he was missing wide open teammates and bobbling pucks for the first 25-30 mins, then by the end of the game he scored two important goals, one being highlight reel material.

You can see how Rust has gone from the same opportunistic player that had horse blinders, to becoming a really high IQ guy that sees the ice well.

I believe that’s part of Crosby’s influence and part developmental from the Pens staff (I know he does a lot of film work and such).

I wouldn’t say the Pens have developed McCann or anything yet, but they are putting him in advantageous positions and he’s seizing the moment.

If he develops into another Rust type, that will definitely be on the Pens watch.
 
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