Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Caps - the one where Pens fans whine the entire time

[The Old Master]

The only way they could beat us in the playoffs was taking out a fatigued Pens team that had just gone the most playoff series in a row in 20 years.

and the coach not playing one or two of the hungry kids fired up on adrenalin for a game. instead of hurt tired players

 

[Coastal Kev]

I don’t believe you watched the 15-16 or 16-17 cups if you don’t think teams tried to physically intimidate us. See Orpik on Maatta, Callahan on Letang, Thornton on Crosby, Calvert on Kuhnhackl, Niskanen on Crosby, Hoffman on Schultz.

This team is never going to win a physical battle. The Caps do, because they have stars like Oshie and Ovechkin that are absolute units.

We simply have a difference of opinion. From my eyes, yes teams went after the Pens physically for the first 3 or 4 games of a series, but then would back off down the stretch. Last year the Caps went all in.

 

[SouthGeorge]

This is why I have no respect for Wilson, none. That wasn't a fair fight, he got the jump on Jamie. It didn't look bad since the RIG got his gloves off quick, but Wilson was able to get leverage on Jamie and it led to the big punch connecting. Really a dirty, sissy play by a faux tough guy.

In the old days, Wilson would have had to answer that cheapness against a real tough guy like Tocchet. In today's hockey, he is cheered by the media and he gets to laugh at his opposition unpunished. blech

I hate Wilson like everybody but I can't blame him. Reports were Oleksiak was lining up on him. He's turned down fights with him in the past. Oleksiak has to be ready. Like I said it's the incompetence of Sully that got Oleksiak bodied. He should have lined him up on Wilson so 1) Make him fight or bitch up and 2) It would have never put Oleksiak in that unfair advantage. But no they are too worried about how it will look. Well now they look stupid.

 

[Gurglesons]

We simply have a difference of opinion. From my eyes, yes teams went after the Pens physically for the first 3 or 4 games of a series, but then would back off down the stretch. Last year the Caps went all in.

No they didn’t. They scored timely goals and outplayed us.

It’s 2018 Kypreos.

 

[Gurglesons]

I hate Wilson like everybody but I can't blame him. Reports were Oleksiak was lining up on him. He's turned down fights with him in the past. Oleksiak has to be ready. Like I said it's the incompetence of Sully that got Oleksiak bodied. He should have lined him up on Wilson so 1) Make him fight or ***** up and 2) It would have never put Oleksiak in that unfair advantage. But no they are too worried about how it will look. Well know they look stupid.

Almost as stupid as Kris Letang last night, eh?

 

[SouthGeorge]

Almost as stupid as Kris Letang last night, eh?

Letang played a solid game last night. You should be very proud of your dad.

 

[Coastal Kev]

No they didn’t. They scored timely goals and outplayed us.

It’s 2018 Kypreos.

And their physicality took no toll on the Pens? Again, believe what you want. All I know is every glorified coach in either hockey or football when winning usually speaks to the effect of it helping their team win.

 

[IcedCapp]

Ah, **** is this one of those object lessons? Just jokes I don't think the issue is that black and white. And I've never been a fan of HCMS. You know that. I've always thought he comes off as an ass hat. I think we've all worked for someone we don't like at some point. In that sort of a situation it's difficult to be enthusiastic about our jobs, but at the same time we're not wanting to cut off our noses to spite our faces. That's how this feels to me. But, I don't know if this discussion really belongs in the PGT. Whatever I may think of the coaching staff or the line-up choices or the roster composition, I'm a Pens fan and I hate to see the team fail. So, I'm good with just enjoying the W and *****ing about the rest of it later

I'm no Sullivan fan - I'm programmed to hate anyone with a Boston accent. If anything, I'm unapologetically loyal to JR. If Sully were fired tomorrow, I wouldn't shed a tear for him (though I might be a tad concerned for the future of the franchise depending on who his replacement is).

But when we have these conversations - Sprong, team performance, Kessel/Malkin, etc... - I'm not looking at them from my own ... emotions? Was Sprong moved because Sully is a dumb moron? Or was he moved because the team needed defensive depth and Sprong was never going to make it here because the team believed he couldn't play the way they wanted/needed? Is the team struggling because Sullivan is making bad decisions? Or is it because they are missing Hornqvist and Simon and their D can't move the puck to save their lives? Are Geno and Kessel frustrated with the coach? Or with their own/the teams poor performances?

Like I said yesterday, you can look at all of these issues and find a negative in them. I'm not necessarily saying it's wrong to see those negatives, but I believe there are rational, reasonable explanations for a lot of the team's failings that don't lay at the feet of Sullivan.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I hate Wilson like everybody but I can't blame him. Reports were Oleksiak was lining up on him. He's turned down fights with him in the past. Oleksiak has to be ready. Like I said it's the incompetence of Sully that got Oleksiak bodied. He should have lined him up on Wilson so 1) Make him fight or ***** up and 2) It would have never put Oleksiak in that unfair advantage. But no they are too worried about how it will look. Well now they look stupid.

But he jumped him... Should Rig have been more prepared?? Definitely knowing the coward he was up against.

Problem is this, Wilson's coach loves what Wilson brings. Sully probably told Rig not to do anything to hurt the team and only to react. That really puts you on the defensive rather than the aggressor.

It is what is, but if I were Rig, my sole mission in my remaining NHL playing days would be to end Wilson.

 

[Gurglesons]

And their physicality took no toll on the Pens? Again, believe what you want. All I know is every glorified coach in either hockey or football when winning usually speaks to the effect of it helping their team win.

Dumo was knocked out of a game and came back and was our best D. Malkin and Hags were injured prior. Malkin on a freak play ironically with HIM trying to be physical and Hags on a dirty shot.

If you’re ideal is that playing physical will deter dirty shots I disagree completely. I think the Penguins actually outhit the Caps a couple times if I remember right.

 

[canadianguy77]

You can act like Oleksiak getting wrecked doesn't hurt but it does. Wilson was down after the Reaves fight. Now we will have to see that highlight forever.

Hurts who? I'm sure it's hurting Oleksiak today, but it really shouldn't be hurting anyone else. These guys aren't extensions of us. They're entirely separate human beings.

He lost a fight. Big deal. Even BGL lost his fair share of fights.

 

[Icarium]

And their physicality took no toll on the Pens? Again, believe what you want. All I know is every glorified coach in either hockey or football when winning usually speaks to the effect of it helping their team win.

Physicality and fighting are two different things. No one denies that it's good for team to physically intimidate its opponents. The canard that Oleksiak (or Reaves or whoever) protects Sid and Geno by threatening to fight whoever lays a finger on them is the thing people disagree with.

From my eyes, yes teams went after the Pens physically for the first 3 or 4 games of a series, but then would back off down the stretch. Last year the Caps went all in.

And yet the Caps managed to be down 3-1 after 4 games in both 2016 and 2017. This physicality thing sure doesn't seem to correlate with winning actual hockey games. Biggest difference last year? Kuznetsov, one of the least physical players on the Caps roster but please, tell us again how it was all about physicality.

 

[SouthGeorge]

But he jumped him... Should Rig have been more prepared?? Definitely knowing the coward he was up against.

Problem is this, Wilson's coach loves what Wilson brings. Sully probably told Rig not to do anything to hurt the team and only to react. That really puts you on the defensive rather than the aggressor.

It is what is, but if I were Rig, my sole mission in my remaining NHL playing days would be to end Wilson.

He's only out at the puck drop for one reason to fight Wilson. So yeah, he should have been prepared. But like I said his coach did him no favors and put him in an unfair advantage.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Dumo was knocked out of a game and came back and was our best D. Malkin and Hags were injured prior. Malkin on a freak play ironically with HIM trying to be physical and Hags on a dirty shot.

If you’re ideal is that playing physical will deter dirty shots I disagree completely. I think the Penguins actually outhit the Caps a couple times if I remember right.

You are looking at this from an external view. Trust me, mental fatigue is as important as the physical. Read my post above. I have witness firsthand playing on a soft talented team and a team with grit mixed with talent. The psyche of the teams were night and day opposite. If given the choice I would play for the latter every time.

My soft talented team went nearly undefeated to a championship, only to run up against very nasty team. After taking an early lead, they proceeded to take out our Captain and a blow out ensued in their favor. We had no answer.

Granted the Pens stars have grit as shown by them gutting out that win last night. But they will get worn down, they'll start to ask "is the sacrifice worth it". When you're 30 with multiple millions and championships, what do you think the answer to that question will be? I know what mine would be...

 

[Gurglesons]

You are looking at this from an external view. Trust me, mental fatigue is as important as the physical. Read my post above. I have witness firsthand playing on a soft talented team and a team with grit mixed with talent. The psyche of the teams were night and day opposite. If given the choice I would play for the latter every time.

My soft talented team went nearly undefeated to a championship, only to run up against very nasty team. After taking an early lead, they proceeded to take out our Captain and a blow out ensued in their favor. We had no answer.

Granted the Pens stars have grit as shown by them gutting out that win last night. But they will get worn down, they'll start to ask "is the sacrifice worth it". When you 30 are with multiple millions and championships what do you think the answer to that question will be? I know what mine would be...

So why is the record 2-1 against the big bad Caps the last three playoffs?

First hand? The worst teams I was on in hockey preached physicality and winning fights. The best teams preached turning the other cheek and playing the game that is on the scoreboard.

 

[Coastal Kev]

So why is the record 2-1 against the big bad Caps the last three playoffs?

Didn't I answer that already? The Caps had the Pens on the ropes in 15/16, that is my opinion. Wilson was suspended after his run in with Sheary and the Caps went away from the physical/dirty gameplan. Last year they stuck with it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Didn't I answer that already? The Caps had the Pens on the ropes in 15/16, that is my opinion. Wilson was suspended after his run in with Sheary and the Caps went away from the physical/dirty gameplan. Last year they stuck with it.

Caps had Pens on the ropes in 15/16?

That 3rd Period really proved your point in Game 6 lolol

Also Wilson was not suspended in that series what the f*** are you talking about? He was fined.

Further proof you didn’t watch the series because you were too busy whining about something rather than watching your “team” crush one of their “rivals”.

Speaking of physical you do remember Letang crushing MoJo right? And getting suspended in that series?

 

[cheesedanish87]

Nice to see the Pens get a big win.

JJ playing well was encouraging.

JJ has a reputation of playing well in the playoffs, that was close to a playoff game, it gives me hope that if the Pens do make the playoffs maybe JJ has another gear in him that we haven't seen yet.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The whole squaring up for revenge ritual is silly, becasuse a guy like Wilson is just too much of a cement head to care.

But ZAR is the one who should have performed the monkey dance instead of Big Rig. The one thing ZAR can do very well is throw fists, so he should have fought his own battle IMHO. His only usefulness is toughness and being a good PK guy so...

 

[Gurglesons]

The whole squaring up for revenge ritual is silly, becasuse a guy like Wilson is just too much of a cement head to care.

But ZAR is the one who should have performed the monkey dance instead of Big Rig. The one thing ZAR can do very well is throw fists, so he should have fought his own battle IMHO. His only usefulness is toughness and being a good PK guy so...

Must’ve killed @ColePens when NBC was waxing poetically about ZAR’s performance this week and last.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Apparently after the game the Pens gave Big Rig a big applause for sticking up for his teammates.

So now that he did that its just going to make it harder for Sully to take him out of the lineup if hes healthy.

 

[IcedCapp]

The whole squaring up for revenge ritual is silly, becasuse a guy like Wilson is just too much of a cement head to care.

But ZAR is the one who should have performed the monkey dance instead of Big Rig. The one thing ZAR can do very well is throw fists, so he should have fought his own battle IMHO. His only usefulness is toughness and being a good PK guy so...

This is just using the hockey code to get the guy out of the lineup for 6 months

 

[Coastal Kev]

The whole squaring up for revenge ritual is silly, becasuse a guy like Wilson is just too much of a cement head to care.

But ZAR is the one who should have performed the monkey dance instead of Big Rig. The one thing ZAR can do very well is throw fists, so he should have fought his own battle IMHO. His only usefulness is toughness and being a good PK guy so...

Has he fought since his jaw got crushed? Only having a mentality of Tocchet leads you to getting back into the ring after that kind of damage.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Apparently after the game the Pens gave Big Rig a big applause for sticking up for his teammates.

So now that he did that its just going to make it harder for Sully to take him out of the lineup if hes healthy.

And people think that toughness/grit/fighters have no impact inside of a lockerroom?????? I stated it many times before and I'll state it again, the Pens last season had finally become a really great team and then the Brassard trade happened. Out went 2 big HEART players in Reaves and Cole......

I truly get tired of getting lectured about how physicality/grit/toughness is a thing of the past. Those who played know different.

 

[Gurglesons]

And people think that toughness/grit/fighters have no impact inside of a lockerroom?????? I stated it many times before and I'll state it again, the Pens last season had finally become a really great team and then the Brassard trade happened. Out went 2 big HEART players in Reaves and Cole......

I truly get tired of getting lectured about how physicality/grit/toughness is a thing of the past. Those who played know different.

Where’s your response to Wilson not being suspended two years in a row and the Caps not beating us? Or are you just going to continue yelling at the sky?

If anything last year proved that skill trumped size as Vrana killed us once Wilson went down.