Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Canes - They cannot close the deal. They just cannot.

[EightyOne]

Loser point for the win

 

[BigEezyE22]

No, I just don't care who they play. If they're a cup caliber team, they can handle any of Washington, NYI, Carolina or anyone like that. If they can't, they're not a cup caliber team.

Seeding really doesn't mean anything to me outside of avoiding juggernauts like Tampa Bay. You're not going to have a big difference in quality of opponent as long as you're not finishing in the WC2 spot. There are no easy teams in the playoffs, you're going to have to play teams like Washington eventually.

It's not about opponent though. It's about home ice. Both cup years Pens were higher seeded team in 3/4 rounds. After every series that went 6+ games, the next one started at home. It's hard to quantify the benefits, but you can't deny them.

 

[The Shovel Penguin]

I fell asleep trying to watch the game. I guess the Pens did, too.

 

[2wayPlay]

Things I trust more than the Penguins with a 1 goal lead and less than 90 seconds
Mike Tomlins clock management
Gas Station Sushi
Tap Water from Mexico

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's not about opponent though. It's about home ice. Both cup years Pens were higher seeded team in 3/4 rounds. After every series that went 6+ games, the next one started at home. It's hard to quantify the benefits, but you can't deny them.

No, the benefits can, and have been, quantified and over a fairly significant period of time. Home ice is an advantage but a fairly miniscule one. Virtually meaningless. I mean that I would rather have it thank not, but in the studies that I have seen it is not a big enough deal to worry about.

 

[ncm7772]

Agreed. I don't have numbers to back it up, but I think our PK has been solid.

I mean, I'd rather have Hagelin than Wilson or Blandisi, or even ZAR, but this season's version of Hagelin isn't what some are making it to be.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Another disappointing game

Usually when you pull the goalie you get scored, but when you face the Penguins, it’s the best and most effective strategy cause we can’t play defense in late period.

But my biggest issue is the powerplay, I don’t care what the numbers are, that we’re top 5 in the league or whatever it is, but we’re the worst team on the powerplay and I’m not exaggerating. I think Kessel running the PP is a big part of that. When the opponent team gets the puck out of their zone, our PP basically end there and that’s the problem. This means we can’t make a proper zone entry, can’t make a decent forecheck when we dump the puck, can’t shoot the puck, can’t create space, can’t win puck battles and I could go on and on. And on top of that, we give atleast one short handed quality chance to the opponent team every f***ing game.

Do they really need to put Sid and Kessel together for the sake of it? It’s NOT working, it’s actually a recipe for disaster. Why just don’t put the regular lines on the PP?

 

[HandshakeLine]

No, the benefits can, and have been, quantified and over a fairly significant period of time. Home ice is an advantage but a fairly miniscule one. Virtually meaningless. I mean that I would rather have it thank not, but in the studies that I have seen it is not a big enough deal to worry about.

The only series I think that home ice has any real advantage sometimes is the SCF, and that's more of a function of having the last change when doing lots of (potential) cross country traveling to exacerbate existing fatigue and injury issues.

But even then, I think it's largely overblown, even when talking about playing an opponent on the west coast.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

The only series I think that home ice has any real advantage sometimes is the SCF, and that's more of a function of having the last change when doing lots of (potential) cross country traveling to exacerbate existing fatigue and injury issues.

But even then, I think it's largely overblown, even when talking about playing an opponent on the west coast.

Agree about the finals. Look at the Preds series for that alone. Rinne was a mess in Pitt and the biggest reason why we won.

 

[Rossi Rat]

So did anyone see the Canes’ ‘celly? Duck Hunt! Lol!

Hockey related: call me crazy but I don’t want to face that team in the playoffs. Solid D and goalie (Slavin, Dougie, Faulk and Mrazek - are you kidding me?), Captain Williams, Young fuel in Aho and Teuvo, the two greatest 3C’s in Pens history in the original “Gronk” and Greg McKegg... whew.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

He has to be able to close out a game. He just has to. I don't care what he did to that point because not catching a puck that hit him in the glove is 100% his fault. Does everyone giving him a free pass for all of these terrible GTGs think he's just gonna figure it out in the POs?

Yup, no other goalie in the world has failed to catch a puck.
Dude has kept us in the past 4 victories and this is all you want to focus on.

Sometimes I think that posters who have agendas against certain players were stiffed for autographs sometime in their lives

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

We owned the shootout during bylsma because of Fleury.

Yes, at the beginning of his career that was absolutely the case. MAF was money
But MAF incorporated his fake poke check that left him susceptible to 5 hole goals. He was brutal in the tail end of his Pens career

 

[Icarium]

Do we even practice defending 5 on 6 and shootouts? Same mistakes again and again. Other than that, the performance was good but losing two games in a row in the same fashion is incredibly frustrating. Kessel's zero even strength goals in 24 games are absolutely unacceptable. At least Hornqvist has been dealing with concussion issues, can hit and defend. Kessel is barely even shooting nowadays and once again was the culprit for a goal which we allowed. He did have a half-decent shootout attempt, compared to those of Sid and Jake, I will give him that.
We have only won two out of eight games without Malkin and those two were against the Senators and the Oilers, this is a very real cause for concern. Sure, out of the games we have lost many were really close and quite a few went to OT but still, you can only go so far with OT points.
And the refs were a total joke. From the Schultz high stick which led to a CAR penalty to the phantom penalty on Letang in the end. How is Tim Peel still an NHL ref I will never know.

 

[Shady Machine]

Kessel's the bigger issue because he literally brings nothing else to the table when he's not scoring. At least Hornqvist will add physicality, hustle and board play.

Really he doesn’t set up goals too? Obviously his lack of goal scoring is a big issue, but hes not just a shot.

I’d need to see his ES assists over that period too to bring more context.

 

[chethejet]

Actually the Pens roster when healthy is very talented and the question is one of mix. How people think Rust is not the best RW on this team and needs to be playing on the top line is head shaking. Like McCann and his hustle and talent. But he is a third line LW on this team and adds to Bjugstad and Horny to be a really good line. Malkin and Kessel with Blueger can be Ok as long as Bluegar handles the puck more. I for one would put him at center and Malkin LW and Kessel RW to get a assist playmaker center. Won't happen but I do anything to get that line going.

 

[Andy99]

 

[EightyOne]

I still think their best strategy would be to take a penalty quickly after getting a PP and taking their chances 4v4

 

[Tom Hanks]

Kessel's the bigger issue because he literally brings nothing else to the table when he's not scoring. At least Hornqvist will add physicality, hustle and board play.

All those games for Hornqvist were after his concussion too. He’s still putting up points in the last month and L3 doesn’t give up many chances.

 

[Icarium]

Well, they can try somebody who can actually hit a one-timer from the left side. Schultz, Letang, Bjugstad, any right-handed shot would be a bigger threat than the current version of Kessel. Then again, they can barely set-up Geno for a one-timer when he is in the line-up...

 

[BigEezyE22]

No, the benefits can, and have been, quantified and over a fairly significant period of time. Home ice is an advantage but a fairly miniscule one. Virtually meaningless. I mean that I would rather have it thank not, but in the studies that I have seen it is not a big enough deal to worry about.

Can you point me towards these studies? I'd like to see the context of what was considered, and dont want to throw the generic "sample size" argument (one that I totally hate).

 

[IcedCapp]

MMs left handed blocker cost the Pens another point tonight

Thank you. I’ve been edging for a week.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Really he doesn’t set up goals too? Obviously his lack of goal scoring is a big issue, but hes not just a shot.

I’d need to see his ES assists over that period too to bring more context.

Kessel has 9 ES assists over those 24 games (2 of which came in the first game of this sample size), so no, that's still pretty bad. He's not setting up goals or scoring goals at a top-6 level in 2019, and he's just a horrendous player when you take away his production.

Kessel has 3 ES goals and 15 ES points in 35 games in 2019. Kessel has been heinously bad in the second half of this season, it's really telling that he has a larger minus (-17) than the amount of ES points he has in 2019.

 

[SouthGeorge]

No consistency in Pittsburgh media. Letang is more sheltered than Tomlin. AB throws a cooler and it's the end of the world. Letang ejected in first game back because he can never stop running his mouth and not useful for the one thing he's really good at and not a peep. Malkin misses first game in awhile and they show the with and without stats right away. With all the games Letang has missed why I have I never seen that stat with him? Without is probably very good that's why.

 

[domaug]

So we should gnash our teeth, pound our chests, and bellow at the sky while we are at it? Sorry, but no sentient hockey-watching-being can blame Murray for that loss. He played very well and stared down many wicked shots against, yet another, desperate team. But I am at a loss to explain why this new unfortunate trend of choking at the end of regulation manifests.

that choke was a total team effort, that's my point. i don't "blame" Murray for it anymore than i blame anyone else who was on the ice. that was really the only play where he was a little off. he was a big part in keeping the game close.

that doesn't mean he should be exempt from any ounce of criticism. it's like you're never allowed to point out when he makes a mistake, no matter how important that mistake is.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Can you point me towards these studies? I'd like to see the context of what was considered, and dont want to throw the generic "sample size" argument (one that I totally hate).

Historically the home ice winning percentage is 55% regular season, 55% playoffs. Much lower than other sports:

How Much Does Home-Ice Advantage Matter in the Stanley Cup Final? | The Action Network

In baseball and hockey, on the other hand, playing at home doesn’t get you nearly as much help. MLB teams win about 54 percent of home games whether it’s the postseason or not (so much for last licks!), and while NHL teams do a bit better at home in the regular season (55 percent), they actually see their advantage decrease slightly in the playoffs.

A Home Playoff Game Is A Big Advantage — Unless You Play Hockey


For 2006-12 the series winning percentage was 60% for the first round, 50% for the conference semis, 57.1% for the conference finals, 71.4% for the cup finals.

How Much Does Home-Ice Advantage Matter in the Stanley Cup Final? | The Action Network