Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Blues - Oh well... shit happens

[Ogrezilla]

It doesn’t seem to matter who plays with Malkin and Kessel, that line remains a big issue and has been that way all season. Rust is basically the last hope there, and if he can’t be the magic fix for those two, no idea who else you use.

Rust also isn’t nearly as good on his off wing, so I have my doubts, but all other solutions have been exhausted at this point.

I'd try flipping McCann and Rust at that point to get them both on their proper wings. Then I'd be out of ideas.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I have been saying for couple months now Kessel isn't top-6 player anymore and shouldn't be on Malkin's line.

Welcome to "the fringe," mi amigo. It should surprise no one that a player who has a reputation of dividing opinion throughout his career divides opinion here. It kind of sucks in debating this with good posters where we'd agree on 90% of the remainder of the roster, but what can ya do. Actually to be honest, I'm not sure if the fringe is all that fringey anymore. If there were a poll that simply asked "is Phil Kessel a good even-strength hockey player anymore?" it would probably be something like 65/35 yes/no.

My visions of moving on from Phil this summer, though...I will say that his participation in Geno's ceremony yesterday kind of scared me. Couldn't they have just persuaded the Hawks to healthy-scratch Kunitz for this instead? Or like, use Gonchar duh.

 

[ChaosAgent]

---- Dumo. Horrible game. He was responsible for the two huge goals; 1st and 3rd. At the Blues red line on the first. 3rd, he lost an edge. One point he randomly lost his stick. I think he was already drunk or thinking about being drunk. Tonight should be fun.

I can't remember Dumo + Schultz having as bad of a game as this in quite some time.

As an aside, this coaching staff needs to innovate and coach the players that if you lose/break your stick in the defensive zone (especially in the first and third with the short change)...please for the love of god just skate back to the bench as fast as you can and grab a new one. It's hard to believe no one has tried this yet. The stickless-player is so useless you'd be better off just losing them for 7 seconds and having them return with a stick again. Of course there'd be some adjustment in assignments for other players on the ice, but this could be coached to.

Although in Dumo's case the stick was sitting like 15 feet from him, unbroken which made it even more stupid.

 

[Andy99]

I'd try flipping McCann and Rust at that point to get them both on their proper wings. Then I'd be out of ideas.

Third solution is to take Phil off G’s wing and spread the pain out...maybe it lessens the impact or changes L3 from a more shut down line to one having more O zone starts but maybe it’s better to make G’s line better (since he’s a more impactful player than Bjug) at the risk of making L3 worse...why not try...

Jake-Sid-Rust
McCann-G-Horny
Simon/ZAR-Bjug-Kessel
Blueger-Cullen-Simon/ZAR

 

[ChaosAgent]

Third solution is to take Phil off G’s wing and spread the pain out...maybe it lessens the impact or changes L3 from a more shut down line to one having more O zone starts but maybe it’s better to make G’s line better (since he’s a more impactful player than Bjug) at the risk of making L3 worse...why not try...

Jake-Sid-Rust
McCann-G-Horny
Simon/ZAR-Bjug-Kessel
Blueger-Cullen-Simon/ZAR

Another opinion from the fringe on Kessel...Kessel should be on L4, but he can stay on the top PP. The third line could very easily be better with Blueger playing responsibly than Phil. Or Simon + ZAR on the wings.

The main issue with Kessel on L4 even-strength is that it kills his trade value this summer. Then again, a certain player was actually outright scratched and this crazy team gave him a 5 year contract last year - can you believe it?

 

[Andy99]

Another opinion from the fringe on Kessel...Kessel should be on L4, but he can stay on the top PP. The third line could very easily be better with Blueger playing responsibly than Phil. Or Simon + ZAR on the wings.

The main issue with Kessel on L4 even-strength is that it kills his trade value this summer. Then again, a certain player was actually outright scratched and this crazy team gave him a 5 year contract last year - can you believe it?

Yeah...not gonna happen but Sully MIGHT be able to sell Phil on driving L3 like a new HBK...no one’s going to piss off Phil like you’re suggesting...

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah...not gonna happen but Sully MIGHT be able to sell Phil on driving L3 like a new HBK...no one’s going to piss off Phil like you’re suggesting...

IDK, if the issue with him is motivation then maybe a demotion to L4 for a couple of games might do it.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

IDK, if the issue with him is motivation then maybe a demotion to L4 for a couple of games might do it.

The type of personality Kessel is that would only worsen it. There are some people in this world where you take their toys they just cross arms and stand their ground. Phil is one of those people. You just have to play him or trade him. Simple as that. And trust me, I know this because I’m one of those types of people. Stripping or strikkening does literally nothing but piss off and/or alienate.

 

[ChaosAgent]

@EdwardBlake not denying the truth of what you're saying, but this is factor #875643 that should contribute to moving on from Phil this summer.

Although I'll rescind my opinion if Rust-Geno-Phil wins its matchups substantially en route to a deep playoff run.

 

[Fordy]

genuinely don't understand how some people worry about making the playoffs

 

[Harvey Birdman]

@EdwardBlake not denying the truth of what you're saying, but this is factor #875643 that should contribute to moving on from Phil this summer.

Although I'll rescind my opinion if Rust-Geno-Phil wins its matchups substantially en route to a deep playoff run.

Oh no doubt. I love Kessel. My favorite player is Malkin. But my spirt animal is Kessel. I do not believe Kessel finishes this current contract as a Penguin. He will be traded this off season or at the deadline his final year. He will be traded this off season or the deadline his final year.

 

[Shrimper]

genuinely don't understand how some people worry about making the playoffs

Some people just like to be doom merchants

 

[Ryder71]

Third solution is to take Phil off G’s wing and spread the pain out...maybe it lessens the impact or changes L3 from a more shut down line to one having more O zone starts but maybe it’s better to make G’s line better (since he’s a more impactful player than Bjug) at the risk of making L3 worse...why not try...

Jake-Sid-Rust
McCann-G-Horny
Simon/ZAR-Bjug-Kessel
Blueger-Cullen-Simon/ZAR

Flip Horny with Rust there and that's how I'd configure the lines. Rust should play with Geno. At least for a while

 

[ncm7772]

At least I'm being consistent, that's more than what I can say about this team.

I'll give you that, you are!

 

[NMK11]

Third solution is to take Phil off G’s wing and spread the pain out...maybe it lessens the impact or changes L3 from a more shut down line to one having more O zone starts but maybe it’s better to make G’s line better (since he’s a more impactful player than Bjug) at the risk of making L3 worse...why not try...

Jake-Sid-Rust
McCann-G-Horny
Simon/ZAR-Bjug-Kessel
Blueger-Cullen-Simon/ZAR

The problem here is now you have a third line that's not particularly good defensively nor is it a possession line. So the fourth line could match up against top lines, but then which is your other matchup/defensive zone line? Unless you turn Geno's line into one that you try to force against the other teams top lines and play defense by possessing the puck (which I would be for) it's not ideal.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Brian Burke made an excellent point ...

.

Oh, well, if Brian Burke says so ...

 

[Harvey Birdman]

The second line issues begin and end with Malkin. And as many around here should know by now he is my favorite player on this team. But he needs to simply his game and start going. I don’t care if he hits a wall... just keep hitting it. He has over complicated his game and needs to just simply drive the play. Once and if he does that. Even if he only shows up in the secondary the team will be better for it.

 

[Ryder71]

The second line issues begin and end with Malkin. And as many around here should know by now he is my favorite player on this team. But he needs to simply his game and start going. I don’t care if he hits a wall... just keep hitting it. He has over complicated his game and needs to just simply drive the play. Once and if he does that. Even if he only shows up in the secondary the team will be better for it.

Geno has been a microcosm as to what ails this team. And like you he is my favorite current Penguin (only behind Mario) all time and even that's close. But we don't know from one game to the next what kind of performance will get. This has definitely been one of the most erratic years of what is a hall of fame career. Hopefully moving forward he'll raise his level of play. And equally as important, he'll find more consistency in his game shift in and shift out. Without him playing close to his best we'll be like a spider without legs. We aren't going anywhere.

 

[Tom Hanks]

One thing I've observed from being in such threads in this forum is that there is a huge divide in tolerence from some who follow the team. Some fans are willing to just chalk it up to ''that's life'' or some such generic response. If that's the way some people view such things so be it, I'm not inclined to do that however. Not when they've already pissed away far too many winnable games (if they just showed up and played close to their talent level and abilities).

Brian Burke made an excellent point on the NHL network friday and stated that (generally speaking) elite teams play hard 70 or so games a season. Or at least that's what he'd expect considering the grind, travel, injuries etc. While lesser teams may top out around 60 games. By that standard we're lucky to get to 60-65 games by the end of the season. To be clear I don't expect this team to bring their ''A'' game every night. I just believe we should bring a better effort more often than we do. We have no idea what to expect against Philly. And this time of the season IMO anyhow, that shouldn't be the case.

.

Well we’ve gotten 60% of our points compared to our cup wins during the season:

2009 - 60%
2016 - 63% (an extra win every 13 weeks)
2017 - 68% (an extra win every 5.2 weeks)

For context the regular season is 26 weeks so we going pretty well. November was god awful and without that we’d be equal with the 2017 season.

 

[Ryder71]

Well we’ve gotten 60% of our points compared to our cup wins during the season:

2009 - 60%
2016 - 63% (an extra win every 13 weeks)
2017 - 68% (an extra win every 5.2 weeks)

For context the regular season is 26 weeks so we going pretty well. November was god awful and without that we’d be equal with the 2017 season.

And for context I would suggest you look at just how we're arriving at those numbers. Were we that abysmal against bottom feeders in those years? I don't believe we were. At least not after the coaching changes anyhow. My issue is how we arrived at those numbers equally as much as how many we accumulated. Also in the case of 2016 we pissed a lot of points away prior to Sullys arrival in DEC. Are you taking that into account? Or when coach Disco took over in '09? Because in both cases our play and rate of accumulating points improved dramatically shortly after those changes took hold.

 

[ncm7772]

---- Dumo. Horrible game. He was responsible for the two huge goals; 1st and 3rd. At the Blues red line on the first. 3rd, he lost an edge. One point he randomly lost his stick. I think he was already drunk or thinking about being drunk. Tonight should be fun.

Couldn't watch, but the radio broadcast made that obvious. Both Lange and Borque commented on how slow he was a couple of times.

Overall, I think he's been only ok since his return. Hopefully he gets the rust out.

 

[Angrrus]

What if I told you that mathematically, even if Montreal won out the rest of the regular season the Penguins would still be able to lose 2 games?

We, fans, can do this point calculation stuff. Players can’t. And yet they do. THAT’S the problem.

Besides, in this scenario they will make playoffs? And what, play Tampa in the first round? Is it what you really want for them?

 

[BHD]

I'm going to close this since yesterday's game is no longer the topic of conversation.