Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens run Wild in the Minnesota Snow!

[Tacitus Kilgore]

7 goals scored, without Malkin, Bjugs, Rust or Gally. Good f***ing game boys

 

[HandshakeLine]

Really? I think Murray most or the time finds a way to give us a chance to win. I couldn't care less if he lets in 2 late goals in a game that's as good as won.

MAF on the other hand was a first class momentum killer

For a long period of time, that was the same thing said by MAF's supporters. I think it's bad then and it's bad with Murray now. It was also bad with Barrasso, who was also one of the deciding reasons the Pens couldn't manage a real dynasty with arguably the best team in the history of the franchise.

Goalies will have good games and bad games. There's going to be bad goals. But I think it's a huge problem if our starter cannot get and stay focused for huge stretches of time, or if he suddenly abandons the calm positional game that is his strength to play sloppily back in the net. In fact, what's really bothering me about MM's play is that he doesn't really resemble that goalie he was in the first few seasons and seems to be picking up some bad habits of late.

 

[vodeni]

It's amazing how structure make you so much better, when you dont feed teams transition game.

there was no structure in our game last night, they were pushed back for the good portion of the game. 12 HDCF against vs. 4 HDCF for, we actually won the game when our old way of playing: speed and forechecking worked for a period in the second period. Maybe watch the game rather then relay on some BS from the clueless PGH media. We had so many scrums infron to Murray, they took away a clean goal from them, etc...I am not saying that there were not positives, but this BS about structured game has to stop soon. Our best times were when our first line dominated on forecheck and the fourth line dumped and chase due to their speed. Second and third were so bad last night, it got lost in this win.

 

[Andy99]

7 goals scored, without Malkin, Bjugs, Rust or Gally. Good ****ing game boys

It's hard not to be excited with the new lineup after two wins, but we need to put the brakes on...if any team could be called "trash" this early, Minny would be it...I'll look forward to seeing this team against Colorado, VGK and TB...

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's hard not to be excited with the new lineup after two wins, but we need to put the brakes on...if any team could be called "trash" this early, Minny would be it...I'll look forward to seeing this team against Colorado, VGK and TB...

Hey, if GMBG wants to shore up his blueline for cheap, I've got a crazy solution for him!

 

[Andy99]

Hey, if GMBG wants to shore up his blueline for cheap, I've got a crazy solution for him!

Isn't he a huge fan of pushback?

 

[vodeni]

It’s just weird on a night the first line looked so good people are mad at Simon.

We all have our whipping boys, but at least wait until the guy has a bad game or something.

I have had to watch ZAR for years get ice time he doesn’t deserve, so I can’t say I feel sorry for the Simon haters when he at least does positive things.



Outside of the game Malkin got hurt, he’s been just ok.

He lacks the vision to be a pivot, but hopefully their trust in Lafferty eventually puts these two where their talents are most suited.

both points. I have no idea where all this coming from about Simon. and McCann, he is just lost for dozen games than he has a good one than back to mediocrity...he cannot carry the line, not now

 

[Shrimper]

Ignore

 

[vodeni]

I posted a few pages back, but he’s playing a quiet, 200 ft game. I’m sure we’d all like more production, but with the way the line-up is I dunno how much that is going to come.

very, very quiet 200 feet game, more like 100 feet game, I focused on him the entire game last night and he had zero impact on the game, so called structured game, they blew by his line with the puck, in 14 ES minutes he played they did not have puck for more than 2 minutes...his entire statistical column is Zero except 1 blocked shot and 1 hit taken, 2 attempted shots vs. 14 attempted against....

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Biggest take away for me is that it's nice to see the old Horny back after a year long absence. He was sorely missed.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

It's hard not to be excited with the new lineup after two wins, but we need to put the brakes on...if any team could be called "trash" this early, Minny would be it...I'll look forward to seeing this team against Colorado, VGK and TB...

Fair enough. I think these games are great confidence builders for the team, particularly the young guys.

 

[EightyOne]

there was no structure in our game last night, they were pushed back for the good portion of the game. 12 HDCF against vs. 4 HDCF for, we actually won the game when our old way of playing: speed and forechecking worked for a period in the second period. Maybe watch the game rather then relay on some BS from the clueless PGH media. We had so many scrums infron to Murray, they took away a clean goal from them, etc...I am not saying that there were not positives, but this BS about structured game has to stop soon. Our best times were when our first line dominated on forecheck and the fourth line dumped and chase due to their speed. Second and third were so bad last night, it got lost in this win.View attachment 264053

Yeah it's not like they improved their system. Still not a fully cohesive unit.

They got timely goals on rattled tender. Which is better than last year where the bottom six refused to score shit no matter who they faced.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Isn't he a huge fan of pushback?

We'll even throw in some truculence for free!

 

[Extra Texture]

So Lafferty and AJ have to have cemented their spots now, right?

Right?

FWIW, Sully could barely hide a smile while he was gushing about them in the postgame interview. Their speed, skating, defensive awareness. He mentioned everything we saw, talked about how great it was to see them rewarded, and the fact that they put Minny on the back foot, shift after shift. He looked enamored. I think the injuries mean we are gonna see them for a few more games, and if his reaction is anything to go on he loves having them out there.

(Yes I know he has his pets like ZAR but still)

I know many people said it last night, but if these guys can be our Sheary/Guentzel/Rust/Wilson (never forget) for this season, we’re gonna be a much better team. My only issue is that the patented Pens championship script calls for these guys to come up in December to save our season, so we’re a little too early to take the league by storm right in time for the playoffs Maybe the surprise for the rest of the league can be JRs trades.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I would argue last season was his best. There's absolutely no let-down this year either. He's doing everything.

Let's be real, his early 20's where he was on pace for 120 points every year was a far better player than today's 90-100 point, 2 way version.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

So Lafferty and AJ have to have cemented their spots now, right?

Right?

They're awesome fill in guys but we're not going to win many games without Geno, Rust, Galch, Bjugstad. That's almost half of our top 9.

I would be surprised if either of them stay on the team if all forwards are healthy.

 

[Gurglesons]

very, very quiet 200 feet game, more like 100 feet game, I focused on him the entire game last night and he had zero impact on the game, so called structured game, they blew by his line with the puck, in 14 ES minutes he played they did not have puck for more than 2 minutes...his entire statistical column is Zero except 1 blocked shot and 1 hit taken, 2 attempted shots vs. 14 attempted against....

Pretty dumb to judge possession numbers in a game where we take a 5-1 lead relatively early.

McCann was on the ice more than any other forward aside from Sid and Jake. Didn’t get scored on, went 50% in the dot and just played a sound game with very few actually high danger chances against.

And if you’re going to go by analytics tonight you better be burning an effigy in honor of ZAR.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

++++++++ Sidney Crosby: I don't know what else to write. It started in G2 with his fight. He's been unstoppable. I honestly cannot say anything else. You name it - Sid is doing it.

+++++ Laff/AJ/Tanev/Horny: Injection of energy for all 4 guys. Laff/AJ/Tanev with endless speed/tenacity. Horny with his typical #72 like things. Incredible game by all 4.

+++ Letang/Dumo/Marino: I think our best 3 dmen by a country mile. Letang is producing. I'll let him do his weird mental blunders if he's going to produce at this pace. Dumo really elevated his play. Marino has his rookie errors but is playing incredible.

+++ Muzz: Early on the Wild got a lot of pushback and Muzz kept it simple. Another great game. Career win #100. The milestone doesn't really mean much. That's a team win. End of the game was a tad bit of a questionable Murray. He was farrrr too deep in his crease. Step out and one of those is a save. Easily.


I'll focus on the positives tonight. Seeing what AJ/Laff did... all I hope for is that the coach realizes and trusts them more. They need more minutes. They deserve the spot. They deserved it after camp.... and it went to the usual suspects. They earned it right now... so don't gift these moments back to the vets who aren't delivering. Let the players who are earning it - get it.

That is the silver lining about the forward injuries. Guys like Lafferty and Johnson can show they belong and are better options than someone like ZAR. If everyone does get healthy it will be very interesting who makes the top 12. Rutherford has really added amazing depth, youth, and speed over the past year. Adding Pettersson and Marino to the defense for literally nothing is amazing work. We have 9 NHL defensemen and our make shift 4th line last night looked better than half of our regulars. If everyone gets healthy Rutherford will have a lot of trade bait to use.

Again who stays in the top 12? Lafferty looks like a keeper. When everyone is healthy who makes your top 12.

 

[Andy99]

FWIW, Sully could barely hide a smile while he was gushing about them in the postgame interview. Their speed, skating, defensive awareness. He mentioned everything we saw, talked about how great it was to see them rewarded, and the fact that they put Minny on the back foot, shift after shift. He looked enamored. I think the injuries mean we are gonna see them for a few more games, and if his reaction is anything to go on he loves having them out there.

(Yes I know he has his pets like ZAR but still)

I know many people said it last night, but if these guys can be our Sheary/Guentzel/Rust/Wilson (never forget) for this season, we’re gonna be a much better team. My only issue is that the patented Pens championship script calls for these guys to come up in December to save our season, so we’re a little too early to take the league by storm right in time for the playoffs Maybe the surprise for the rest of the league can be JRs trades.

don’t fret...they’ll be back up again after Geno etc return because we’ll still be owed the month-long injury absences from Horny and ZAR...

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah it's not like they improved their system. Still not a fully cohesive unit.

They got timely goals on rattled tender. Which is better than last year where the bottom six refused to score **** no matter who they faced.

Our shot shares have been solid the last three games. You can’t look into shots for and against in blow out games. The team with a 5 - 1 lead is always going to give up chances. Point being most of the Wild’s chances sucked and the ones that went into the net were point shots with tons of traffic. Hard to fault Murray for some of the goals outside of him playing too deep in his cage.

That being said once they went up 4 - 6 he shut the door.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Biggest take away for me is that it's nice to see the old Horny back after a year long absence. He was sorely missed.

it was a slow 3 months. He was playing at a career high pace through January. He had missed 13 games by then so he wasn't looking to actually hit the career high, but he had 26 points in 37 games. He also had what, three concussions?

But yeah, it's huge that he seems to have bounced back. That kind of thing could have completely derailed his career, but it looks like he has recovered. I do not envy that man's life after hockey though.

 

[ColePens]

That is the silver lining about the forward injuries. Guys like Lafferty and Johnson can show they belong and are better options than someone like ZAR. If everyone does get healthy it will be very interesting who makes the top 12. Rutherford has really added amazing depth, youth, and speed over the past year. Adding Pettersson and Marino to the defense for literally nothing is amazing work. We have 9 NHL defensemen and our make shift 4th line last night looked better than half of our regulars. If everyone gets healthy Rutherford will have a lot of trade bait to use.

Again who stays in the top 12? Lafferty looks like a keeper. When everyone is healthy who makes your top 12.

I think Laff will get a spot. I think Sully trusts him and his minutes are starting to show. His camp was tremendous. His start to the season has been tremendous. I think if it were between ZAR/Laff RIGHT NOW - Laff would get the nod. That's not just what I want to see, that's what I believe Sully would do.

As for AJ - you can see coach still doesn't trust him 90 seconds in 1 game and less than 8 minutes in a game he looked great AND scored a goal. Still.... limited minutes. That is quite telling. I would believe he goes back to WBS, even though I would love to see TB centering Laff/AJ.

And Simon, IMO, is an NHLer who should be fighting for a spot. He and Kahun should be battling one another and Simon is slightly outplaying Kahun, albeit neither of them really look great. I don't think either should be gifted a top 6 spot but it is what it is. Sid likes playing with Simon. He wants puck possession and it's wellllll documented right now. So he stays in.

My lineup would be:

Sid centering Jake/Rust
Geno centering Gally/Tanev
McCann centering Simon or Kahun/Horny
TB centering AJ/Laff

Simon/Kahun being F13. ZAR being F14.

 

[SEALBound]

I've made that post multiple times prior to today and later on in this thread.

And you're cherry picking one post and apparently being a dick?

Ok.

You said:

I cannot believe GMJR dealt Olli Maatta for Dominik ****ing Kahun. It's Despres/Lovejoy bad.

This was part of a bigger post yes. I did choose to only address this part because it's the part I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I simply said:

We got a 24yo RFA wing who makes less than 1mil and 3 mil in cap space...what more could you really want from a Maatta trade? The return was cap space, not so much Kahun. Not only that but the pick we got in addition to him was used to trade up to get Legare so...I'm 100% good with the trade.

Which is more than sound reasoning as to why the Maatta-Kahun trade is still a good trade even if Kahun isn't lighting it up for us.

You replied:

My problem with it is that there are two other defensemen who should have gone before him.

This is where it goes sideways because you didn't mention any of this in the comment I replied to. Its not that anyone disagrees with that...I think it's up for debate honestly and I think it stems from the deals JR was simply able to make that he liked.

You replied with:

I've made that post multiple times prior to today and later on in this thread.

And you're cherry picking one post and apparently being a dick?

Ok.

Yeah, I don't follow you on here, on instagram, nor on twitter so I don't necessarily see all these anti-Maatta-Kahun comments you make. I simply replied to the one I saw. I cherry-picked nothing. I replied to your comment, you changed the argument and moved the goalposts, I called you on it, and you are now throwing a tantrum. I was not being a dick.

The Maatta-Kahun trade is not Despres-Lovejoy bad (this doesn't even take into account whether or not that was even a bad trade for us). There are several reasons why its still a decent trade, even right now. That said, Kahun has been here 5 games and looked decent in 2. Time brah...give it some time.

This all said, no one is arguing that JJ would have been better to trade than Maatta. Both needed to go and I can provide arguments on either side. At the time of the trade, I would have traded JJ and Maatta before EG. I think that's a pretty easy comment to make. Currently, EG's play kind blows and that's fine...but that doesn't change how I felt at the time. It's bad arguments to say that with EG's current play, he should have gone before Maatta. We wouldn't have known EG's currently play at that time. We could only base that on the play he had last season, which was actually pretty good.

So...there...

This all said man, don't take it personally. I just focused on your posts in this thread and generally speaking we agree 99% of the time.

 

[ColePens]

Before I get shot for picking Rust on L1, I am specifically taking Sid's wants into consideration. He wouldn't want to play w/ Tanev or Horny because he doesn't want to play with a dump and grind player. He specifically looks angry every time... So if we need a spot for Sid's wing between Simon/Rust/Kahun.... I default to Rust.

And yeah, it would be McCann possibly but I just like that L3.

 

[Ogrezilla]

rotate Sid's RW. Keep the hottest hand going. And throw Horny in there a few times a game on O Zone starts.