Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 1 Pens vs. Isles - The Maatta Special!

[KIRK]

Johnson in for Gudbranson.

ZAR to L1.

Oh hell no. @ColePens already told me that his boy ZAR is ticketed for L2 this series. The only question is when.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Oh hell no. @ColePens already told me that his boy ZAR is ticketed for L2 this series. The only question is when.

L2 is safe for now because they played well last night. L1 was terrible and thus, Sully needs to put the fixer (aka the greatest ever aka ZAR) on that line to remedy it.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah well he better had talked to Sid 'cause Crosby's line looked like they hadn't planned anything except being naturally superior. I mean, you can't entitle yourself to be better, you have to prove it over and over and i thought if anyone knew that, that's be Sid. Weird ****, i'm sure even if Sully didn't talk to him (doubtful) Crosby would still know in hindsight, that his line just didn't get the job done.

Posting Again: Sid knows, which is why I fully expect a 180 from him. As I said, he's too great, too proud to come out and do anything less.

 

[KIRK]

L2 is safe for now because they played well last night. L1 was terrible and thus, Sully needs to put the fixer (aka the greatest ever aka ZAR) on that line to remedy it.

I think Sully probably is tempted to do something. Whether it happens before or during game 2 (if the L1 struggles continue) is the question. The other one, of course, is if he does something smart like flipping Horny and Rust or something dumb like flipping McCann and Rust.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think Sully probably is tempted to do something. Whether it happens before or during game 2 (if the L1 struggles continue) is the question. The other one, of course, is if he does something smart like flipping Horny and Rust or something dumb like flipping McCann and Rust.

Speaking of ZAR, wasn't he supposed to be more of an impact guy in terms of physicality/agitation? I was expecting someone who played a bit more like the Tkachuk brothers (not skill-wise, just their overall physical/chippy game). Instead, he's just a guy who goes up and down his wing and grinds.

 

[KIRK]

Good lord. @metalan2 started a thread asking for the Pens record with and without Maatta. If I counted right:

30-22-10 with Maatta

14-4-2 without Maatta

 

[KIRK]

Speaking of ZAR, wasn't he supposed to be more of an impact guy in terms of physicality/agitation? I was expecting someone who played a bit more like the Tkachuk brothers (not skill-wise, just their overall physical/chippy game). Instead, he's just a guy who goes up and down his wing and grinds.

@Mr Jiggyfly and I have been discussing ZAR since the summer. He's the organization's pet, from management to coaches . . . all of them. They think he's a top 6 forward. It's as insane as any bit of lunacy you'll see (and yes I know that all organizations have their pets).

 

[Gurglesons]

Johnson in for Gudbranson.

ZAR to L1.

I thought you were for real and got really upset about Gudbranson which makes me question who I’ve become.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

So why not just flip Horny and Rust?

And why ignore that Geno and Phil just played their best 200 foot hockey in a LONG time . . . APART?

That's fine- flip Horny and Rust. But after watching last night and Sully just telling Geno: "hey have fun with Horny" and expect Malkin to start generating goals is going to be impossible.

People ragged on Kunitz, but he possessed some decent passing skills that Geno appreciated.

And I freakin love Horny...love his battle and his attitude, but he does not work with Geno with a guy like McCann on the other side.
It's like Sully took the worst possible combinations (Rust/Sid & Geno/Horny) and decided to make that the foundation where his lines were built...moronic at best

 

[KIRK]

I thought you were for real and got really upset about Gudbranson which makes me question who I’ve become.

No different than me, apparently, because I asked the same when I saw him go down and my immediate reaction was 'OMG, we're ******'.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's fine- flip Horny and Rust. But after watching last night and Sully just telling Geno: "hey have fun with Horny" and expect Malkin to start generating goals is going to be impossible.

People ragged on Kunitz, but he possessed some decent passing skills that Geno appreciated.

And I freakin love Horny...love his battle and his attitude, but he does not work with Geno with a guy like McCann on the other side.
It's like Sully took the worst possible combinations (Rust/Sid & Geno/Horny) and decided to make that the foundation where his lines were built...moronic at best

McCann - Malkin - Hornqvist was a lightning rod for us turning around the game last night..?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

McCann - Malkin - Hornqvist was a Lightning rod for us turning around the game last night..?

They were? How many goals did they produce?
Chances are fine and all, but at the end of the day you have to convert. Every shift are we going to hope that Malkin enters the zone, controls play throws a shot on net and hope Horny/McCann deposits a garbage rebound? Because that's what you're gonna get with this combo

Look, I like about 98% of the F's on this team...I think they're just in the wrong spots in terms of chemistry

 

[KIRK]

That's fine- flip Horny and Rust. But after watching last night and Sully just telling Geno: "hey have fun with Horny" and expect Malkin to start generating goals is going to be impossible.

People ragged on Kunitz, but he possessed some decent passing skills that Geno appreciated.

And I freakin love Horny...love his battle and his attitude, but he does not work with Geno with a guy like McCann on the other side.
It's like Sully took the worst possible combinations (Rust/Sid & Geno/Horny) and decided to make that the foundation where his lines were built...moronic at best

Huh? The ONLY time Horny has worked for a sustained period with Geno, with Hagelin, a LW who last year played a lot like McCann played last night . . . fast, 200 feet, responsibly, and with a knack for knowing where Geno was and knowing when to support and when to give space. That's what Sully was going for, and truth be told, the line not scoring wasn't for a lack of chances. Quite the contrary.

Flipping Rust and Horny is the smart play. Sid and Jake need someone who plays a little ugly (that also forces them not to cheat so much on the breakout and instead to come back and support). There's a history with Horny to show it. As to McCann-Geno-Rust . . . I see shades of Kunitz-Geno-Rust, except McCann isn't broken down and Geno has two good arms.

That's the move that is made if you're most concerned about augmenting the cumulative ability of the top two lines. If it's about Sid only, then you flip Rust and McCann.

At this point, all we can do is wait and hope for the best.

BTW, I'll repeat another thing: With the way Sid was cheating and Jake was cherry picking, it's hard not to think that Rust exacerbated the issues for the line rather than creating them. If Sid were playing the whole game like he did in OT and if Jake realized that a 20/80 puck wasn't an excuse to blow the zone, I'm not sure L1 wouldn't have been fine, which is why I'm wondering if Sully stands pat and has the Rust-Horny flip in his pocket.

EDIT: I think he'll flip them. Sid and Jake need Horny's jam against that 4th line.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Speaking of ZAR, wasn't he supposed to be more of an impact guy in terms of physicality/agitation? I was expecting someone who played a bit more like the Tkachuk brothers (not skill-wise, just their overall physical/chippy game). Instead, he's just a guy who goes up and down his wing and grinds.

He was billed as Horny-lite from the scouting reports: net front guy, hitter, etc
Dude can't stay healthy

 

[Gurglesons]

They were? How many goals did they produce?
Chances are fine and all, but at the end of the day you have to convert. Every shift are we going to hope that Malkin enters the zone, controls play throws a shot on net and hope Horny/McCann deposits a garbage rebound? Because that's what you're gonna get with this combo

Look, I like about 98% of the F's on this team...I think they're just in the wrong spots in terms of chemistry

They led in HDCF and HDC%.

Breaking up every line is something I often here about how Sully does wrong, and then in every post game every line is wrong.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Huh? The ONLY time Horny has worked for a sustained period with Geno, with Hagelin, a LW who last year played a lot like McCann played last night . . . fast, 200 feet, responsibly, and with a knack for knowing where Geno was and knowing when to support and when to give space. That's what Sully was going for, and truth be told, the line not scoring wasn't for a lack of chances. Quite the contrary.

Flipping Rust and Horny is the smart play. Sid and Jake need someone who plays a little ugly (that also forces them not to cheat so much on the breakout and instead to come back and support). There's a history with Horny to show it. As to McCann-Geno-Rust . . . I see shades of Kunitz-Geno-Rust, except McCann isn't broken down and Geno has two good arms.

That's the move that is made if you're most concerned about augmenting the cumulative ability of the top two lines. If it's about Sid only, then you flip Rust and McCann.

At this point, all we can do is wait and hope for the best.

BTW, I'll repeat another thing: With the way Sid was cheating and Jake was cherry picking, it's hard not to think that Rust exacerbated the issues for the line rather than creating them. If Sid were playing the whole game like he did in OT and if Jake realized that a 20/80 puck wasn't an excuse to blow the zone, I'm not sure L1 wouldn't have been fine, which is why I'm wondering if Sully stands pat and has the Rust-Horny flip in his pocket.

EDIT: I think he'll flip them. Sid and Jake need Horny's jam against that 4th line.

See my post above about chances vs converting
HGH was fine for a period of time, but again it relies on Geno expending a ton of energy to be the engine between 2...let's say less than talented shooters/converters. 2009 Geno could do it no problem for 4 Rounds (and probably then some). 10 years later Geno? You're asking a LOT

 

[KIRK]

They were? How many goals did they produce?
Chances are fine and all, but at the end of the day you have to convert. Every shift are we going to hope that Malkin enters the zone, controls play throws a shot on net and hope Horny/McCann deposits a garbage rebound? Because that's what you're gonna get with this combo

Look, I like about 98% of the F's on this team...I think they're just in the wrong spots in terms of chemistry

Question: For 2 months last year, is that what you got with HGH?

Last year, ironically, the HGH line was put together against the Isles. While the line dominated possession and was excellent 200 feet, Malkin only scored on the PP.

Talking ONLY about the line, McCann-Geno-Horny in their first game against the Isles reminded me a lot of HGH in their first game against the Isles, and both games also saw the return of smart 200 foot Geno.

McCann 100% is the straw that stirred the drink for the Geno-Horny combo in EXACTLY the same way Hags did last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Question: For 2 months last year, is that what you got with HGH?

Last year, ironically, the HGH line was put together against the Isles. While the line dominated possession and was excellent 200 feet, Malkin only scored on the PP.

Talking ONLY about the line, McCann-Geno-Horny in their first game against the Isles reminded me a lot of HGH in their first game against the Isles, and both games also saw the return of smart 200 foot Geno.

McCann 100% is the straw that stirred the drink for the Geno-Horny combo in EXACTLY the same way Hags did last year.

Not to mention McCann looked like a deer for the first period (understandably) and once we settled in was right when that line started owning the Isles.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

They led in HDCF and HDC%.

Breaking up every line is something I often here about how Sully does wrong, and then in every post game every line is wrong.

Again, I'll repeat: there's a difference between CHANCES vs CONVERTING

We had one 5 v 5 goal last night and that was a classic Phil wrister.
Phil also hit a post.
Phil was also backchecking like a madman who knows it's time to knuckle down.
Phil is warming up and as long as he isn't being centered by like Matt Cullen he's gonna start producing.

Geno is getting boned by not having any finishers on his line

 

[KIRK]

They led in HDCF and HDC%.

Breaking up every line is something I often here about how Sully does wrong, and then in every post game every line is wrong.

And how much space did Malkin have?

How much did he touch the puck?

How many point blank chances did he get or put on sticks (or where sticks could have been)?

I still think McCann was the key there, so if I'm switching anything, it would be Rust and Horny, but you know what?

Sid played like crap on his own. Jake played like crap on his own. They both know it. They both know they weren't playing honest 200 foot games. So I wonder if Sully stays pat for the top 9.

But, if he does something, flipping McCann and Rust will be a big mistake (unless the objective is NOT to have as strong a top 6 cumulatively as possible).

 

[KIRK]

See my post above about chances vs converting
HGH was fine for a period of time, but again it relies on Geno expending a ton of energy to be the engine between 2...let's say less than talented shooters/converters. 2009 Geno could do it no problem for 4 Rounds (and probably then some). 10 years later Geno? You're asking a LOT

I'm asking for 2 months from a Geno who is coming off almost a month's rest.

I'm asking for the same 2 months now as we got from Geno last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Again, I'll repeat: there's a difference between CHANCES vs CONVERTING

We had one 5 v 5 goal last night and that was a classic Phil wrister.
Phil also hit a post.
Phil was also backchecking like a madman who knows it's time to knuckle down.
Phil is warming up and as long as he isn't being centered by like Matt Cullen he's gonna start producing.

Geno is getting boned by not having any finishers on his line

Guess what leads to goals. Chances..

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Guess what leads to goals. Chances..

Ok cool- we'll just count to 4 wins by whichever team gets the most CHANCES.
Surely the Isles and NHL will agree to this

 

[Beauner]

Good lord. @metalan2 started a thread asking for the Pens record with and without Maatta. If I counted right:

30-22-10 with Maatta

14-4-2 without Maatta

Random thought but I wonder if he would get back to an acceptable level of skating if dropped 10 pounds. EliteProspects has him at 205. 195 would still be a fine weight for him and may allow him to be serviceable and not a total liability. I've defended him staunchly but he's becoming more of a problem with each passing game..

 

[BHD]

We’re good to take this to the series thread.