Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: End the road trip right!

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BlindWillyMcHurt

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I also think Simon being put on Crosby's line invigorated Sid as well. Sid was starting to look a bit frustrated with Rust's inability to basically do anything with the puck. Then as soon as Simon gets put there, sets Sid up for that beauty, Sid had extra jump.

I tend to agree.

Which, coincidentally, is almost certainly why he doesn't like playing with Hornqvist, either.

Always been very intrigued by Simon. Been sorta waiting for him to put it all together. He doesn't have to be a big goal scorer to be successful but it sure would be nice if he'd find SOME touch, there.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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I tend to agree.

Which, coincidentally, is almost certainly why he doesn't like playing with Hornqvist, either.

Always been very intrigued by Simon. Been sorta waiting for him to put it all together. He doesn't have to be a big goal scorer to be successful but it sure would be nice if he'd find SOME touch, there.

The difference in vision between Simon and Rust is very noticeable. Simon's assist on Crosby's first goal last night was the type of play Rust probably doesn't make. Rust would have just put his head down and skated with the puck for a bit, then lifted his head to finally see Crosby standing beside the net. By that time the defense recovers and the goalie is ready to slide across to stop Crosby.
 

JTG

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That pass from Sprong to Geno was awesome. Sprong on the left with Kessel and Malkin may actually work too because of the commitment Geno and Phil have had to defense. I have no idea where this Phil Kessel has come from. It's awesome though.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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The difference in vision between Simon and Rust is very noticeable. Simon's assist on Crosby's first goal last night was the type of play Rust probably doesn't make. Rust would have just put his head down and skated with the puck for a bit, then lifted his head to finally see Crosby standing beside the net. By that time the defense recovers and the goalie is ready to slide across to stop Crosby.

Yessir. And just to clarify, I like Rust. But frankly I've always been a little surprised that he's even had THIS much success offensively. That's just never been his game. But hustle, great wheels and general smarts can make up for a lot. I'm not nearly as well-versed as someone like Jiggy on Simon but I've always noticed in my limited views as he was coming up that he made some awfully slick plays with the puck and supported the play very well.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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That pass from Sprong to Geno was awesome. Sprong on the left with Kessel and Malkin may actually work too because of the commitment Geno and Phil have had to defense. I have no idea where this Phil Kessel has come from. It's awesome though.

I would have laughed at this not long ago but... I have to admit I've been thinking the same thing. I think maybe Sullivan would turn a rather vivid shade of red and get that big angry vein in his temple throbbing pretty good if that line were put together, though.

But like you said... with how Geno and Kessel have been going...

And with the way Sprong and Malkin look like they MIGHT click...
 
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CertifiedLurker

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I would have laughed at this not long ago but... I have to admit I've been thinking the same thing. I think maybe Sullivan would turn a rather vivid shade of red and get that big angry vein in his temple throbbing pretty good if that line were put together, though.

But like you said... with how Geno and Kessel have been going...

And with the way Sprong and Malkin look like they MIGHT click...

Something weird is going on in my pants when I think of that. Listen here, all these top lines in the league with like all 3 members in the top 20 scorers, Colorado, Boston, etc. Think about how much crazier the stats are gonna be for Malkin and Kessel if a line with Sprong clicks. They are both in the top 20 right now and Hagelin has 2 points.
 

JTG

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I would have laughed at this not long ago but... I have to admit I've been thinking the same thing. I think maybe Sullivan would turn a rather vivid shade of red and get that big angry vein in his temple throbbing pretty good if that line were put together, though.

But like you said... with how Geno and Kessel have been going...

And with the way Sprong and Malkin look like they MIGHT click...

It's something that should be considered and I'd like to se how it works. You're very obviously losing some puck retreival there, but you would theoretically be gaining puck possession.

The problem I have had with Sprong is that he has looked out matched physically thus far. He looked really good last night though. Simon looked solid with Sid.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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Something weird is going on in my pants when I think of that. Listen here, all these top lines in the league with like all 3 members in the top 20 scorers, Colorado, Boston, etc. Think about how much crazier the stats are gonna be for Malkin and Kessel if a line with Sprong clicks. They are both in the top 20 right now and Hagelin has 2 points.

I don't even think Hagelin is doing BADLY, either. He has picked it up a lot lately after a slow start, actually. But I dunno... while there are plenty on this board who will clutch at their pearls at the notion of a Sprong/Malkin/Kessel line and who will do the "dirty work" etc etc I think there is also something to be said for sheer overwhelming offensive firepower.

Pipe dream, though. I don't think Sprong has ever even taken more than a few shifts at LW. And the coaching staff would probably rather eat glass than make that line happen.

Again... I just hope they find a way to work him in with Geno and Sid here and there. Keep his confidence up.
 

Tom Hanks

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Something weird is going on in my pants when I think of that. Listen here, all these top lines in the league with like all 3 members in the top 20 scorers, Colorado, Boston, etc. Think about how much crazier the stats are gonna be for Malkin and Kessel if a line with Sprong clicks. They are both in the top 20 right now and Hagelin has 2 points.

Hags has 3 point (9 games) a little shy of what we’d expect from him but I think you are very much underestimating what he does for that line.
 

CertifiedLurker

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Hags has 3 point (9 games) a little shy of what we’d expect from him but I think you are very much underestimating what he does for that line.

I'm literally not underestimating him at all, I haven't said anything about his effort other than on a line with two guys who have 18 and 14 points respectively, he has 3. He's a great defensive presence and hustles on the forecheck but the dude has hands carved from a mountain.
 

Tom Hanks

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I'm literally not underestimating him at all, I haven't said anything about his effort other than on a line with two guys who have 18 and 14 points respectively, he has 3.

But putting Sprong there instead of Hags really changes the dynamic of that line and I think it would fail. HMK is probably the best line in the league at the moment.

Hags does things that Sprong doesn’t do that really complements Malkin and Kessel. I think it’s important to that lines success which is why I think you’re underestimating what he does for that line.
 

CertifiedLurker

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But putting Sprong there instead of Hags really changes the dynamic of that line and I think it would fail. HMK is probably the best line in the league at the moment.

Hags does things that Sprong doesn’t do that really complements Malkin and Kessel. I think it’s important to that lines success which is why I think you’re underestimating what he does for that line.

I mean, that could be completely true, at the same time I don't see why you wouldn't even want to see it once. Obviously not while they're still destroying but there could be a time to try it.
 

Empoleon8771

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If he was a little bigger and faster he would have been a top ten pick though and not a Penguin.

If he can hold anywhere close to this type of production the whole season, he’s become a hell of a fourth round pick.

Also, there are plenty of games where Crosby, Malkin and Kessel struggle to get anything going as well and they are the best in the world.

Right now, Guentzel is kind of a ghost so, it’s unfair to expect Simon to be a force for 82 games a season.

He was 20 years old, 5'10" and 176 lbs when he was drafted, and Simon wasn't even ranked in the top 120 International draft prospects for the 2015 draft. I feel like this is a huge stretch to say.
 

Peat

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I don't even think Hagelin is doing BADLY, either. He has picked it up a lot lately after a slow start, actually. But I dunno... while there are plenty on this board who will clutch at their pearls at the notion of a Sprong/Malkin/Kessel line and who will do the "dirty work" etc etc I think there is also something to be said for sheer overwhelming offensive firepower.

Pipe dream, though. I don't think Sprong has ever even taken more than a few shifts at LW. And the coaching staff would probably rather eat glass than make that line happen.

Again... I just hope they find a way to work him in with Geno and Sid here and there. Keep hi confidence up.

We've tried something similar with the GMK line. It's not been bad but it hasn't really justified concentrating that much offensive firepower onto one line, and I think Guentzel is a better complimentary player for Malkin and Kessel than Sprong (who is literally doubling down on Kessel's skill set). Granted, its a little different with Sprong because its not taking an established attacking player away from the rest of the roster and it might be a good way to get him some more comfort, but I'm not sure its a winning move in terms of actual success.

Meanwhile HMK is a beast line. Yes there's a certain level of inefficiency there with Hagelin's finishing ability but it generates so much it doesn't matter. I don't care how many points he picks up when the line is pumping out 3.77 g/60.

And the stuff about doing the dirty work and defence is more than you seem to be suggesting. Hagelin's been a very prominent net front presence on some of Kessel's most recent goals. Hagelin's work buys space - would Sprong do the same thing? Would Sprong's confidence remain as high when the line gets itself in defensive troubles and he ends up being the guy getting isolated and making bad plays and maybe getting scapegoated?

Not to mention that we know Sprong can produce elsewhere in the line up... but getting the most out of Hagelin relies on having him with elite talent. Hagelin with Malkin/Kessel is just a defensive player. Sprong isn't.

I don't want to dismiss the idea out of hand but I see a lot of negatives and not many positives.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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Eh, I don't think it's realistic, either. I'm just one of those "don't knock it til ya try it" kind of guys. It's easy to say "it totally won't work." But for the record people were saying the same thing about HMK all Summer.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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He was 20 years old, 5'10" and 176 lbs when he was drafted, and Simon wasn't even ranked in the top 120 International draft prospects for the 2015 draft. I feel like this is a huge stretch to say.

Being a step faster and bigger with his skill set I’m 100% sure would have resulted in bigger opportunities, more exposure and being ranked extremely high.

He was overlooked because a lack of both size and speed is a death warrant for any prospect.

When stiffs like Tyler Biggs are taken 22 overall based purely on size and an ultra talented kid like Jonny Hockey drops to the fourth round in the same draft, that’s all you need to know about how scouts view measurables.
 
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Ogrezilla

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That pass from Sprong to Geno was awesome. Sprong on the left with Kessel and Malkin may actually work too because of the commitment Geno and Phil have had to defense. I have no idea where this Phil Kessel has come from. It's awesome though.
Geno and Phil need hags for the dump in option imo. It opens up so much having that speed on the left wing. With sprong they are back to relying on carrying the puck in every time.
 

Peat

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Eh, I don't think it's realistic, either. I'm just one of those "don't knock it til ya try it" kind of guys. It's easy to say "it totally won't work." But for the record people were saying the same thing about HMK all Summer.

That makes sense and fair point about HMK - I guess for me a big issue is why would you want it to work anyway. I get the comfort thing but other than that, we've got a limited amount of high offence players and we can create a killer line using Kessel and Malkin without taking away that depth from the rest of the line up. I guess its not that different from me liking experimenting with Brassard on Sid's line.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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When stiffs like Tyler Biggs are taken 22 overall based purely on size and an ultra talented kid like Jonny Hockey drops to the fourth round in the same draft, that’s all you need to know about how scouts view measurables.

Oh god. That dude.

I was convinced Shero had a rager for him and was sure to take him. I guess it didn't end up mattering, regardless.
 

Turin

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That pass from Sprong to Geno was awesome. Sprong on the left with Kessel and Malkin may actually work too because of the commitment Geno and Phil have had to defense. I have no idea where this Phil Kessel has come from. It's awesome though.

That might change in a hurry if you take Hagelin off that line.
 
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Coastal Kev

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Here's my take, the last two games the Pens scored some very pretty goals. Off the rush, Snipe and tic tack toe! I miss that, the game used to be 90% of those type of goals rather than the soft slapper from the point that ping pongs off of several bodies.

I like it
 
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JTG

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Geno and Phil need hags for the dump in option imo. It opens up so much having that speed on the left wing. With sprong they are back to relying on carrying the puck in every time.

Yeah, it would be different for sure. It'd be a lot of skill and speed in on one line. The dump in option isn't even why I think Hagelin is needed on that line - it's the back pressure factor. I do want to see it in action. I don't have high aspirations.

That might change in a hurry if you take Hagelin off that line.

Malkin and Kessel playing defense?
 

Ogrezilla

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Yeah, it would be different for sure. It'd be a lot of skill and speed in on one line. The dump in option isn't even why I think Hagelin is needed on that line - it's the back pressure factor. I do want to see it in action. I don't have high aspirations.



Malkin and Kessel playing defense?
I think the dump in factor is huge. They are so hard to defend because you can't commit completely to either the dump or the puck carrying option on d. If you make that one dimensional I think you'll start to see a lot more of Geno and Phil forcing plays and leading to not only losing the puck but also dangerous chances against.
 

Ryder71

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Geno and Phil need hags for the dump in option imo. It opens up so much having that speed on the left wing. With sprong they are back to relying on carrying the puck in every time.
Yep, his speed adds and important and crucial dynamic to that line. No reason at the moment to tinker there.
 
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