Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: End the road trip right!

[Gurglesons]

Sprong is definitely at his best as a volume shooter, but he is an underrated passer as I keep trying to stress. He doesn’t need to get 7-8 shots on net to be effective, basically. He’s not Neal and I hate that comparison.

However, he’s like Kessel in the fact you want him to keep shooting. He’s had a couple games I watched where he was just on fire and had well over ten shots on goal and attempted something insane like 15 shots during ea of those games.

Sprong’s issue like I’ve said is consistency. Even last night he had a bad first and second period. He needs to play with confidence and urgency. Sullivan outlined what they want to see from him and none of it was based on his defensive play in his post game last night.

The Sprong we saw in the third period after the give and go with Malkin is the Sprong we need to see consistently and I have no doubt he’ll work his way up the line-up.

The other big issue is that Simon has clearly outplayed him twice now in short sample sizes. Simon is going to get those extra shifts with Crosby and the 2nd PP until he shows otherwise.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I think you're off base with this one. While it's disappointing that he didn't sign, I question whether we would have gone as far as we did without him as he was a pretty big part of our success that post season.

As for only looking at "big name" guys... I think it's several things that need to be taken into account. First off, only 1 team wins the cup, which means most rentals "fail" if the only measure of success is winning it all. Secondly there's only so many "big name guys" who get moved as rentals at/near the TD in any given year... which means the odds of a guy getting moved, and then meeting your "measure" of "success" is very low even if they have a big impact for their team in a given PO run. I mean Stastny (like Hossa) would fall into this category last season - even though he was a great pick up for Winnipeg and was a huge part of their run to the WCF, by every measure out there other than lifting a cup, that trade was a success.

Anyway, we're way OT here.

People need to remember Hossa wanted to be a Redwing before he ever dawned a Pens Jersey, and not signing him probably helped motivate them to beating them the next year. It would of helped had Geno not got rocked by Mike Richards and severely hampered him in 08, but in 09 Malkin went berserk and Datsyuk was injured for Detroit.

You don't really want to think they could have won both years, but Hossa more than was a monster here in 08, and a powder puff for them (Detroit) in 09. Hossa's best year in the playoffs was as a Pen.

In the end he did help them get to the promiseland.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm just surprised he was good because he has alternated between good games and bad games, so I fully expected this to be a bad game for him

I think what this road trip has showed is that how individual guys like Johnson, Oleksiak and Maatta look defensively depends a lot on how structured the team is playing. If the team is playing structured, all of those guys look at least solid defensively. If the team is collapsing, those guys are the first guys you're going to notice screwing up.

This wasn’t a structural thing. He was taking the body, making solid decisions and just playing passive.

He’s like a Letang without the talent. He needs to be tased any time he gets out of position because he can’t compensate for it.

 

[NMK11]

I wonder if maybe we should try Sprong on LW for a few games to see how he looks. Might be asking a lot to switch positions while he's still trying to break in, but Sprong-Brassard-Rust keeps Rust on his better side and might give Sprong more looks on net. His pass to Malkin was from the LW and he's over there on the PP, so at least he'd be ok there on half the ice.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This wasn’t a structural thing. He was taking the body, making solid decisions and just playing passive.

He’s like a Letang without the talent. He needs to be tased any time he gets out of position because he can’t compensate for it.

I can agree with this, but I also think it's a structural thing as well. I feel like the Penguins playing sloppy hockey probably fuels into Johnson making dumb decisions, so if the team is playing more structured, he'll be playing more passive. Or at least that's what you hope he'll be doing.

 

[Gurglesons]

Agree that should be the lineup given a shot next game....

Simon and Sprong already are easily making up for the loss of Sheary....Sprong himself has 4 points in the 8 games he’s played, which translates into 40 points...Simon the same..they can more than make up for Sheary, and Rust and Hags limited production to date, assuming they can stay healthy...

I think Sullivan deserves some credit for that scratch. Who knows what happens if Brassard is healthy, but Sprong comes back, Sully feeds him some shifts throughout the line-up and Sprong finally shows his offensive senses. I wonder if it is honestly a hockey IQ issue.. he just reads plays awfully sometimes. There was a shift last night where he just stood and covered himself and then walked the puck out of the zone when he had two open guys. Little things like that are going to drive our centers (who are all cerebral in Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, and
Cullen) and our coaching staff crazy.

Let’s see him build on this game.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wonder if maybe we should try Sprong on LW for a few games to see how he looks. Might be asking a lot to switch positions while he's still trying to break in, but Sprong-Brassard-Rust keeps Rust on his better side and might give Sprong more looks on net. His pass to Malkin was from the LW and he's over there on the PP, so at least he'd be ok there on half the ice.

The issue is both Rust and Sprong seem to favor streaking down the left side.

I like what I saw from Sprong last night in terms of just getting the puck on night. We need more of that from him.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can agree with this, but I also think it's a structural thing as well. I feel like the Penguins playing sloppy hockey probably fuels into Johnson making dumb decisions, so if the team is playing more structured, he'll be playing more passive. Or at least that's what you hope he'll be doing.

I think it is a chicken or egg thing.

He really contributes to it a ton.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Agree that should be the lineup given a shot next game....

Simon and Sprong already are easily making up for the loss of Sheary....Sprong himself has 4 points in the 8 games he’s played, which translates into 40 points...Simon the same..they can more than make up for Sheary, and Rust and Hags limited production to date, assuming they can stay healthy...

Simon actually has 6 points in 9 games. All at even strength too.

It’s not just points though you can’t be hurting the team out there. Simon has had some bad games but I think he’s mostly been decent. Thought Sprong had been mostly bad with no real decent games until last night.

Can’t remember who posted it but it’s more about keeping their heads above water when they play on the lower lines and take the opportunity when they move up. That’s the reality for them with this roster.

 

[Andy99]

I think Sullivan deserves some credit for that scratch. Who knows what happens if Brassard is healthy, but Sprong comes back, Sully feeds him some shifts throughout the line-up and Sprong finally shows his offensive senses. I wonder if it is honestly a hockey IQ issue.. he just reads plays awfully sometimes. There was a shift last night where he just stood and covered himself and then walked the puck out of the zone when he had two open guys. Little things like that are going to drive our centers (who are all cerebral in Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, and
Cullen) and our coaching staff crazy.

Let’s see him build on this game.

I absolutely think he lacks some hockey IQ, at least for how they want him to play....he needs a lot of repetition in what to do without the puck so that he’s thinking less, and the coaching staff needs to give that to him...if they’re patient, I think the team will reap the rewards of having him play confidently wherever they put him throughout the lineup...we will be in much better shape this year having Simon, Sprong, Cullen than Sheary, Kuhn and Rowney....

 

[Gurglesons]

I absolutely think he lacks some hockey IQ, at least for how they want him to play....he needs a lot of repetition in what to do without the puck so that he’s thinking less, and the coaching staff needs to give that to him...if they’re patient, I think the team will reap the rewards of having him play confidently wherever they put him throughout the lineup...we will be in much better shape this year having Simon, Sprong, Cullen than Sheary, Kuhn and Rowney....

The good thing about Sprong and Simon is we don’t need them to be huge production wise. Let them work on their fundamentals and become complete players to the degree Sheary was and we are golden.

It is why I think a lot of us are praising patience. They both need to clean up aspects of their game and I think right now we are just looking for one of them to stand out to allow the 1st line some consistency. You can tell that Sullivan isn’t married to Rust up there, but he knows he can consistently play decent enough to not be an issue on that line.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

it's neat how even though Sprong didn't immediately get that chance to start the year, Sully was still able to play him in a better spot last night. I wonder if any more opportunities will come up over the 73 games we have left.

Seriously though, good stuff from Sprong. That's exactly what he needs to do; keep his head above water and then impress when he gets better chances.

I've given up expecting anything in terms of opportunities for Sprong. It just makes the game more fun for me because I don't think there's any way he's "earning" his way up the line-up with the way he's being used, and that even applies to last night.

But when he's not buried in the d-zone for 6 minutes a game with 4th liners, we got a glimpse of what he can do at this level. I'm just gonna enjoy those moments when they happen.

 

[ColePens]

I absolutely think he lacks some hockey IQ, at least for how they want him to play....he needs a lot of repetition in what to do without the puck so that he’s thinking less, and the coaching staff needs to give that to him...if they’re patient, I think the team will reap the rewards of having him play confidently wherever they put him throughout the lineup...we will be in much better shape this year having Simon, Sprong, Cullen than Sheary, Kuhn and Rowney....

I completely agree about his IQ. Every game he finds himself playing the center role on defense and getting murdered doing so. I do not get it. I like the support, but let the center do it and switch back to your wing . Drives me nuts. I think if he fixes some positioning issues, he will see more ice time and do what he does best.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sprong’s issue like I’ve said is consistency. Even last night he had a bad first and second period. He needs to play with confidence and urgency. Sullivan outlined what they want to see from him and none of it was based on his defensive play in his post game last night.

The Sprong we saw in the third period after the give and go with Malkin is the Sprong we need to see consistently and I have no doubt he’ll work his way up the line-up.

The other big issue is that Simon has clearly outplayed him twice now in short sample sizes. Simon is going to get those extra shifts with Crosby and the 2nd PP until he shows otherwise.

I doubt we see much consistency until he gets regular minutes, which is an obvious catch 22. He’s at least producing though and Sullivan extended his hand to him last night and Sprong took it.

I’ve been pretty clear Simon is my favorite young guy along with TB, so I’m not going to argue the second point. People can keep bagging on him, but Sullivan and Crosby have seen what I’ve seen, and their opinions are what will ultimately determine his role as a Pen.

It’s a real shame Simon and Sprong are being pitted agt each other on here though. Both guys aren’t elite players, so they will be on a roller coaster all season. However, they are talented guys that I have a lot of hope for.

Now if TB ever got his shot I’d be a happy man, until my next agenda was being ignored by Sullivan.

 

[Gurglesons]

I doubt we see much consistency until he gets regular minutes, which is an obvious catch 22. He’s at least producing though and Sullivan extended his hand to him last night and Sprong took it.

I’ve been pretty clear Simon is my favorite young guy along with TB, so I’m not going to argue the second point. People can keep bagging on him, but Sullivan and Crosby have seen what I’ve seen, and their opinions are what will ultimately determine his role as a Pen.

It’s a real shame Simon and Sprong are being pitted agt each other on here though. Both guys aren’t elite players, so they will be on a roller coaster all season. However, they are talented guys that I have a lot of hope for.

Now if TB ever got his shot I’d be a happy man, until my next agenda was being ignored by Sullivan.

For me personally it isn’t about pitting anyone against anyone. I trust Sullivan. Simon has been the better player from what I’ve seen. Sprong obviously has the higher peak, but he needs to show he can handle NHL minutes and produce chances Simon has been doing that and Sprong hasn’t this year.

Also, we have the issue of Brassard not being fully comfortable here yet so as a player Brassard is light years more important to get going than any other player on this team aside from the big 3. So any soft minutes are going to be immediately thrown to him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

For me personally it isn’t about pitting anyone against anyone. I trust Sullivan. Simon has been the better player from what I’ve seen. Sprong obviously has the higher peak, but he needs to show he can handle NHL minutes and produce chances Simon has been doing that and Sprong hasn’t this year.

Also, we have the issue of Brassard not being fully comfortable here yet so as a player Brassard is light years more important to get going than any other player on this team aside from the big 3. So any soft minutes are going to be immediately thrown to him.

Simon thinks the game like Crosby and Guentzel. That’s exactly why when I watched both Simon and Guentzel before they became pros, I could see their hockey IQs oozing all over the ice. They just see things other players don’t. Obviously Crosby’s talent allows him to do things at a much faster and elite pace than those two, but the core IQ how they all see the ice is very similar.

That play where Simon pissed all over the Nucks blueliner and missed the pass to Sprong, I guarantee you he saw Sprong as he looped back in the NZ and knew exactly what he was going to do before he danced that Nuck.

These guys just play a form of chess on the ice always thinking a few steps ahead. Just find it incredibly odd so many people fail to notice that with Simon.

 

[Gurglesons]

Simon thinks the game like Crosby and Guentzel. That’s exactly why when I watched both Simon and Guentzel before they became pros, I could see their hockey IQs oozing all over the ice. They just see things other players don’t. Obviously Crosby’s talent allows him to do things at a much faster and elite pace than those two, but the core IQ how they all see the ice is very similar.

That play where Simon pissed all over the Nucks blueliner and missed the pass to Sprong, I guarantee you he saw Sprong as he looped back in the NZ and knew exactly what he was going to do before he danced that Nuck.

These guys just play a form of chess on the ice always thinking a few steps ahead. Just find it incredibly odd so many people fail to notice that with Simon.

For some reason people address the bad stretch he had last year when he was playing on the 4th line and averaging 9 minutes.

It’s so weird because they are typically the same people that say that treatment is ruining Sprong.

Simon showed a lot in the playoffs to me last year. Sure, he had some bad plays, but he was able to step on that top line and produce.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the big knock against Simon is that he's small and not fast, which is a bad combination. His hockey IQ is really high and he has good hands and playmaking talents, but him being both small and not fast isn't a good combination. I think that's a part of the reason why he has been so hot and cold, some games he just can't find any open space and can't create any himself.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I also think Simon being put on Crosby's line invigorated Sid as well. Sid was starting to look a bit frustrated with Rust's inability to basically do anything with the puck. Then as soon as Simon gets put there, sets Sid up for that beauty, Sid had extra jump.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think the big knock against Simon is that he's small and not fast, which is a bad combination. His hockey IQ is really high and he has good hands and playmaking talents, but him being both small and not fast isn't a good combination. I think that's a part of the reason why he has been so hot and cold, some games he just can't find any open space and can't create any himself.

He’s not slow though and has decent strength to win board battles

 

[Empoleon8771]

He’s not slow though and has decent strength to win board battles

Yeah he's not slow, but he doesn't have the speed to create open space for himself and having "decent strength" isn't enough to compensate for that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah he's not slow, but he doesn't have the speed to create open space for himself and having "decent strength" isn't enough to compensate for that.

I think that could be the one issue with that line. Both wingers (Jake and Simon) are on the small side (short and also not particularly stocky), so it could cause issues against bigger teams when it comes to board battles.

 

[Andy99]

I think that could be the one issue with that line. Both wingers (Jake and Simon) are on the small side (short and also not particularly stocky), so it could cause issues against bigger teams when it comes to board battles.

It’s probably fine for the RS....probably not for the POs...Horny should be on it imo if we haven’t traded for another RW option

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I think that could be the one issue with that line. Both wingers (Jake and Simon) are on the small side (short and also not particularly stocky), so it could cause issues against bigger teams when it comes to board battles.

When we need more muscle, they'll slide PH up with Sid. Simon keeps the play going and isn't a stopper ala end of career Kunitz, and that's enough for Sid and Jake. Rust just doesn't fit on that line, and hopefully they're done trying it, for a little while at least.

Rust was out there with Sprong and Geno for the one goal, maybe we'll see Brass between those two when he's back.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think the big knock against Simon is that he's small and not fast, which is a bad combination. His hockey IQ is really high and he has good hands and playmaking talents, but him being both small and not fast isn't a good combination. I think that's a part of the reason why he has been so hot and cold, some games he just can't find any open space and can't create any himself.

If he was a little bigger and faster he would have been a top ten pick though and not a Penguin.

If he can hold anywhere close to this type of production the whole season, he’s become a hell of a fourth round pick.

Also, there are plenty of games where Crosby, Malkin and Kessel struggle to get anything going as well and they are the best in the world.

Right now, Guentzel is kind of a ghost so, it’s unfair to expect Simon to be a force for 82 games a season.