Confirmed with Link: ColePens Said ANYTHING for the B2B Cup (Hornqvist traded to Florida for Matheson + Sceviour)

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Struggling teams trying to compete for Cups move relatively significant players sometimes. Everyone sucked, but you're not trading a Crosby or Malkin, and Letang being removed devastates a blueline that's already been shaky for years.

It was Hornqvist or Rust. The return was never gonna be good, for either of them, but Hornqvist was the right guy to go.

 

[The Old Master]

Am I bothered?

Yeah because they wouldn't do that to Sid and Geno so why do they f***ing feel they have the right to treat Horny like shit? And yeah they treated him like shit with that deal.

how would you call the treatment of the whole team by playing jj with their shot a the cup on the line????

 

[SEALBound]

Thing is, the leak basically ensures the player will waive as it's now so public.

Yes but again, that doesn't mean the organization is doing him wrong by trading him. Ideally, yes, the team informs him first but with the internet and cell phones, sometimes shit happens. It's a brave new world and its not all peaches and rainbows.

assuming the leakers are not one and the same?

I highly doubt "now, go leak this to the media" was on JR's to do list. We don't even know which side it was leaked from. Given the complete and utter surprise of the majority of recent trades for the Pens org, I would bet dollars to donuts that it was leaked from the Florida side.

Salutations. I am from China

I love your user name and your stats. Welcome...or welcome back.

We air out ours sons stuff in the garage.... Just sayin'.

In my garage yes, I have a hanger that I hang my shit off of my game hooks on. Scattered out front on the driveway...meh.

Now like I said, I will retract what I said if he was truly just airing it out. Question should be, if he's been skating recently, have the neighbors seen him do this before now? And with that, does he normally wear his "game gear" to a practice?

 

[Borgir]

A lot of butthurt over the Hornqvist deal.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Trades are normal.
What people are failing to understand with my comments anyway, is that if you constantly talk about a bloke you respect, then treat him as such. It should have been a convo to let him know he's going to get dealt and if he would waive. Simple as that. By not doing that then having a deal in place and the media finding out and leaking it, without the player knowing a damned thing? That's bs.

Like I said. You f***ing people think they'd do the same to Crosby or Malkin? If No, what the f*** makes them exempt from that bs.

 

[Shrimper]

Ok, cause normally people from the UK aren't big into hockey. So I was just trying to figure out how such a person would be into the Penguins. Kinda like me following a team from India playing cricket. I would never do that. But if I spent time there maybe I would. Probably not though.

Penguins are my favourite animal. Dad bought me NHL 2010. Saw Penguins and the rest is history

 

[Tom Hanks]

A lot of butthurt over the Hornqvist deal.

It was a bad trade by a GM who has been trending down for a few years.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Also the kessel thing is not a good comparable. The falling out and what not. Phil knew he was getting dealt. He knew and him saying no or whatever is beside the point. He knew.

Hornqvist found out, literally by a media leak. The GM didn't have the f***ing bollocks to call and tell him look this is our plan, sorry, it's just business.

 

[Gurglesons]

It was a bad trade by a GM who has been trending down for a few years.

Not a bad trade.

 

[Ryder71]

It was a bad trade by a GM who has been trending down for a few years.

We really don't know that yet. Again, I don't like the term MM has left, but Horny was declining mightily.

 

[Ryder71]

Trades are normal.
What people are failing to understand with my comments anyway, is that if you constantly talk about a bloke you respect, then treat him as such. It should have been a convo to let him know he's going to get dealt and if he would waive. Simple as that. By not doing that then having a deal in place and the media finding out and leaking it, without the player knowing a damned thing? That's bs.

Like I said. You f***ing people think they'd do the same to Crosby or Malkin? If No, what the f*** makes them exempt from that bs.

He's not on the level of Sid or Geno, not in any way shape or form. Stars like it or not are treated differently in every sport. And Sid and Geno have been here their entire careers, they were drafted by the team, they're Penguin for life, well thus far anyhow.

 

[Tom Hanks]

We really don't know that yet. Again, I don't like the term MM has left, but Horny was declining mightily.

I can only judge in the information in front of me and Matheson is an average bottom pair D man signed 6 years, 4.875 mil.

How was he declining mightily? His production was fairly normal for him. Injuries sure but play no.

 

[Ryder71]

I can only judge in the information in front of me and Matheson is an average bottom pair D man signed 6 years, 4.875 mil.

How was he declining mightily? His production was fairly normal for him. Injuries sure but play no.

He is injured a lot, that's another issue that will likely only get worse as time ensues. Horny just isn't the same player he was, and IMO he has declined rather significantly. Also paying a 33 yr old 5.3 mil who's likely to receive less and less ice time, particularly on the PP, isn't somebody we should be clamoring to keep.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He is injured a lot, that's another issue that will likely only get worse as time ensues. Horny just isn't the same player he was, and IMO he has declined rather significantly. Also paying a 33 yr old 5.3 mil who's likely to receive less and less ice time, particularly on the PP, isn't somebody we should be clamoring to keep.

So trade him for someone with a worse contract who is a worse player? At least win one of those categories if you’re going to trade him or wait until you can.

 

[Ryder71]

So trade him for someone with a worse contract who is a worse player? At least win one of those categories if you’re going to trade him or wait until you can.

You do realize our options were limited due to his NMC, right? I'm not sure what's gonna happen with MM. He has talent, skill and should be entering his prime. I reserve judgement until I see him for 40 or 50 games. It's not as if we haven't turned other rearguard reclamation projects into viable and legitimate contributors. Time will tell. But with hornys age, his wear and tear, his cap hit and his NMC, I think JR actually extracted decent value. It just depends on if MM can play to his abilities here. And we obviously don't know that yet.

 

[Tom Hanks]

You do realize our options were limited due to his NMC, right? I'm not sure what's gonna happen with MM. He has talent, skill and should be entering his prime. I reserve judgement until I see him for 40 or 50 games. It's not as if we haven't turned other rearguard reclamation projects into viable and legitimate contributors. Time will tell. But with hornys age, his wear and tear, his cap hit and his NMC, I think JR actually extracted decent value. It just depends on if MM can play to his abilities here. And we obviously don't know that yet.

He had one more year of a full NMC. He also did waive it so it think it was an unnecessary risk.

Now if MM doesn’t work out it’s a tough contract to move or you are paying 4.875 mil for a bottom pair D.

The optics aren’t good and I’m more mad at the sum of what JR has been doing. This is another piece to that. I’ve lost almost all my positivity when it comes to JR.

 

[ChaosAgent]

So trade him for someone with a worse contract who is a worse player? At least win one of those categories if you’re going to trade him or wait until you can.

The argument from the trade supporters is that Matheson is likely to be the better player with Marino's babysitting and thus will justify his contract.

To which I say...I hope.

If you are a believer in Matheson it's hard not to like this trade. And he has quite a few believers.

 

[Ryder71]

He had one more year of a full NMC. He also did waive it so it think it was an unnecessary risk.

Now if MM doesn’t work out it’s a tough contract to move or you are paying 4.875 mil for a bottom pair D.

The optics aren’t good and I’m more mad at the sum of what JR has been doing. This is another piece to that. I’ve lost almost all my positivity when it comes to JR.

There are a lot of variables that should be considered here. We got quicker and have a lot of mobility on the blue line. We just have to manage the puck better. Easier said than done, but skill wise I like our blue line. Especially if it means JJ is gone or at minimum doesn't dress. And if JJ doesn't dress that's a huge net positive!

 

[Andy99]

HockeyBuzz.com - HockeyBuzz Hotstove - Thoughts on the Penguins/Panthers trade?

 

[JTG]

JTG you don't mean Schultz was the #3 the last couple of seasons, though, right? Because he played like he wasn't even an NHLer. He was brutal. I thought it was due to injuries, though. He just never regained form.

No...definitely not the last 2 years, which is where I think a lot of the JR ire came from. Schultz had expectations, and my guess is JR thought he mailed it in a bit, despite the injuries.

When we were winning Cups though - he was awesome and probably one of the main reasons we did sustain the success we did. The way he filled is in exactly what you expect your middle pair guys to do.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Struggling teams trying to compete for Cups move relatively significant players sometimes. Everyone sucked, but you're not trading a Crosby or Malkin, and Letang being removed devastates a blueline that's already been shaky for years.

It was Hornqvist or Rust. The return was never gonna be good, for either of them, but Hornqvist was the right guy to go.

Hornqvist was the right guy to go at $5.3 million and soon to be 34 and out of the top 6. To say Rust return would not be good is ludicrous. A good two way player that had over a point a game last year and is fast and in his prime and only a $3.5 million cap hit. You say that return would never be any good? What are you smoking? Don't get me wrong, I would not trade Rust unless it was an overpayment. Rust is so much more valuable than just his points. Rust is the type of player needed in our system and luckily we have many players built for the system in Zucker, Kapanen, and Tanev that have the speed to create turnovers in the offensive end. Rust is the best of that group followed closely by Zucker. I think Rust would at least bring in a Zucker type deal if we wanted to trade him which I don't.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

It was a bad trade by a GM who has been trending down for a few years.

Yah those McCann, Pettersson, Zucker, Marino, Kapanen trades are terrible.

I actually even like the Kessel trade getting rid of his full contract when he is obviously going down hill and I like POJ.

Also this trade has a decent chance of being a win for the Pens. Matheson is a great skater, very good shot, physical and great at winning pick battles. The talent is obvious and he just needs to take less risks and bring down his turnovers. Ekblad has a ton of turnovers also in that system and he is a great defenseman. Matheson has the talent to play top 4 minutes and he had for a couple years already at the age of 26. All take my chances for a soon to be 34 year old bottom 6 forward with a $5.3 million cap hit.

Definitely a chance Matheson doesn't work out but you don't get a defenseman with that much talent in his prime for a 34 year old winger if he doesn't have something that needs work. I like the risk. I could care less about the length. This team only has 2 years left and 3 max to win with this core. After that I want to tank for the next generational talent to lead the next Pens decade like Mario and Crosby did. You don't get those players without dropping to the bottom. So I want 3 years of being at the bottom and this contract won't be a problem by the time this next era of Pens is ready to compete.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He had one more year of a full NMC. He also did waive it so it think it was an unnecessary risk.

Now if MM doesn’t work out it’s a tough contract to move or you are paying 4.875 mil for a bottom pair D.

The optics aren’t good and I’m more mad at the sum of what JR has been doing. This is another piece to that. I’ve lost almost all my positivity when it comes to JR.

You’re now where we’re at, lol.

At this point, JR needs to do some good will moves and the way he’s been operating, he’s starting to give little credence to anything that seems to hold this team together, being held at any level of importance.

Now it’s the hold up on the Murray deal.
Johnson is clearly the one he needs to move and he’s some how playing it off like he has to earn his way on to the roster? I mean mate, you and I know, he’s not even fit to play ahead of Riikola and Ruhwedel. So who is he saying that to? Is he now afraid of not trying to piss off Crosby or something?

JJ should have been moved right when they added Matheson. At the latest. He should have been gone as soon as possible according to literally all of us.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

HockeyBuzz.com - HockeyBuzz Hotstove - Thoughts on the Penguins/Panthers trade?

Hockebuzz is still a thing?

We care about what whomever those tossers are, say?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Yah those McCann, Pettersson, Zucker, Marino, Kapanen trades are terrible.

I actually even like the Kessel trade getting rid of his full contract when he is obviously going down hill and I like POJ.

Also this trade has a decent chance of being a win for the Pens. Matheson is a great skater, very good shot, physical and great at winning pick battles. The talent is obvious and he just needs to take less risks and bring down his turnovers. Ekblad has a ton of turnovers also in that system and he is a great defenseman. Matheson has the talent to play top 4 minutes and he had for a couple years already at the age of 26. All take my chances for a soon to be 34 year old bottom 6 forward with a $5.3 million cap hit.

Definitely a chance Matheson doesn't work out but you don't get a defenseman with that much talent in his prime for a 34 year old winger if he doesn't have something that needs work. I like the risk. I could care less about the length. This team only has 2 years left and 3 max to win with this core. After that I want to tank for the next generational talent to lead the next Pens decade like Mario and Crosby did. You don't get those players without dropping to the bottom. So I want 3 years of being at the bottom and this contract won't be a problem by the time this next era of Pens is ready to compete.

I can break down his overall trading and UFA signings when I have more time. Not everything is bad but he does overpay and loses again when he has to fix things that are pretty common sense. Eventually it catches up to you. His grade since our last cup would be pretty low.

We don’t need more low IQ defenders it’s the last thing we need! The strain it puts on our team and our goalie is huge. Letang is an exception because he can push the play like many can’t and his instincts going forward with the puck are generally pretty good.

Tanking for a generational talent is an awful way to do things. The last team to win a cup having a first overall draft pick was from 2007 (Chicago/Kane). At this point I’d rather a GM who can retool effectively. Smart trades, good drafting, good FA signings. Crosby and Malkin while they won’t be what they used to be will still be good players and good planning can keep us having a shot. On the flip side if Malkin leaves when his contract is up that’s a lot of cap we suddenly have to make the best of the situation.