Confirmed with Link: [COL/ARI] Avs Acquire G D.Kuemper($1m ret.) for D C.Timmins + 2022 COL 1st + 2024 COL 3rd(cond.)

henchman21

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But that's exactly what you want behind a team like the Avs that doesn't allow a ton of quality shots. You just want a steady, solid goalie capable of making routine saves and not screw up. That's a perfect match.

Yes and no... yes in that the consistency is really good to have and it leads to a higher floor. If Kuemper starts 50 games, the Avs will be 1st or 2nd in the central for sure (likely 1st). I have nearly zero doubt about that. No in the idea that you need a goalie who can make the big saves when you really need it in the playoffs. In the last playoffs, all situations of goalies that played more than 7 games... Vasi was 1st, MAF was 2nd, Price was 3rd, Helle was 4th and Varly was 5th in HDSV%. You need goalies who can make the big saves in the playoffs (Grubi failed there against Vegas).
 
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Avsfan1921

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And we will have more holes to fill next year than this offseason. Gibson might cost more to acquire but you have your goalie for the next half decade. Next offseason we have to deal with filling the 2C, 2W’s, 3W’s, 1G, backup... etc

Lot of holes next offseason.
Very true. But they have the money to make those decisions where they did not have so much for this year. I have maintained that we will take gradual hits to our depth moving forward but I don't think they are going to mess around when it comes to goaltending.
 

Belgican

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But... at the same cap... how do the Avs deal with having all of Nuke, Kadri, Burkie, Kuemper, and Frank as UFAs? Of that group, maybe only Frankie gets a paycut. Nuke and Kadri are looking at 1-2m more. Burkie could be similar or if he has a 30g year (he has the ability), maybe he pushes 6-6.5. The cap situation is actually worse next season than this season...
I saw that lineup on CapFriendly, it was a much better lineup than next season

forsberg yr 2 - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Forsberg, Radulov, Nuke, Bura, Kuemper, all back with raises, but no Kadri, a much better lineup.
 
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Richard88

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And we will have more holes to fill next year than this offseason. Gibson might cost more to acquire but you have your goalie for the next half decade. Next offseason we have to deal with filling the 2C, 2W’s, 3W’s, 1G, backup... etc

Lot of holes next offseason.
The 2022 UFA market for centers and forwards looks promising. A few guys will get resigned before then but early now it at least looks like a good offseason to have some capspace and flexibility.
 

Avsfan1921

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But... at the same cap... how do the Avs deal with having all of Nuke, Kadri, Burkie, Kuemper, and Frank as UFAs? Of that group, maybe only Frankie gets a paycut. Nuke and Kadri are looking at 1-2m more. Burkie could be similar or if he has a 30g year (he has the ability), maybe he pushes 6-6.5. The cap situation is actually worse next season than this season...
The cap situation is worse as far as filling out the depth. They have more money to throw at someone they like though if they so desire. We will definitely take a hit on the depth again, of that I'm sure we can agree. But they do have more flexability to throw bigger money at someone next year as opposed to this year is what I'm meaning.

I fully expect to see both Kadri and Bura gone next year and will be dissapointed to see them (Bura mostly) go.
 

henchman21

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I saw that lineup on CapFriendly, it was a much better lineup than next season

forsberg yr 2 - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Forsberg, Radulov, Nuke, Bura, Kuemper, all back with raises, but no Kadri, a much better lineup.
If the centers go MacK-Newhook-Jost-Helm... Avs simply are not going to win shit...

The cap situation is worse as far as filling out the depth. They have more money to throw at someone they like though if they so desire. We will definitely take a hit on the depth again, of that I'm sure we can agree. But they do have more flexability to throw bigger money at someone next year as opposed to this year is what I'm meaning.

I fully expect to see both Kadri and Bura gone next year and will be dissapointed to see them (Bura mostly) go.

I expect Kadri is gone... I could see the Avs keeping Burkie. They don't put a high emphasis on center over wing, and they obviously like Burkie.
 

Avsfan1921

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And we will have more holes to fill next year than this offseason. Gibson might cost more to acquire but you have your goalie for the next half decade. Next offseason we have to deal with filling the 2C, 2W’s, 3W’s, 1G, backup... etc

Lot of holes next offseason.
I agree 100% but they will have more money to throw at an individual player than they did this year, thus making it a different scenario in my eyes. That's all I'm meaning by my previous statement.

It will suck to lose more depth next year but I'm fully expecting it to happen, largely in part because I believe they will spend on goaltending, be it Kuemper or someone else.
 

Belgican

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If the centers go MacK-Newhook-Jost-Helm... Avs simply are not going to win shit...



I expect Kadri is gone... I could see the Avs keeping Burkie. They don't put a high emphasis on center over wing, and they obviously like Burkie.
Of course someone has to wait one year to see how Newhook develops. I didn’t say we would win all in, but one can hope Newhook will be a better player than Kadri. Anyway, it was Forsberg, but the idea is that you can make one better player than 2 with Bura and Kadri money, then take Compher money in something more valuable in the FA market
 

Avsfan1921

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I don't have faith that Newhook will ever be a solid option for 2c let alone for the 2022-23 season. If he develops at a promising rate this year then I can understand the gamble but they had better sign a 3c that can fill in if needed for insurance. I personally would not take that gamble but depending on their cap situation i can understand why they may.
 

McJedi

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Yeah, I'm hella concerned about Timmins' durability going forward as well, and it's not like his NHL upside has been determined. He showed a lot of promise in an otherwise poor showing by the team in the postseason though.

Nieto was perfectly fine on the PK. Exactly the type of defensive forward with speed you want in that role. The problem with the Avs' PK is systemic. It's really passive, relies way too much on shot blocking and way, WAY too much on goaltending, and does nearly nothing to really generate shorthanded scoring chances. It's really something that Bednar is usually so bold with his lineup choices and overall scheme, but is insanely conservative when it comes to the penalty kill.
I agree with all that. I love that Jost and JTC are always skating. Always circling and pressing the puck with speed. It works. Nieto and PEB were far too stationary the year before and that was piss poor coaching scheme.

Avs improved their PK this last year in large part because they switched styles and skated more with their PK forwards. Nuke too. They were much higher pressure.
 
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McJedi

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I don't have faith that Newhook will ever be a solid option for 2c let alone for the 2022-23 season. If he develops at a promising rate this year then I can understand the gamble but they had better sign a 3c that can fill in if needed for insurance. I personally would not take that gamble but depending on their cap situation i can understand why they may.
What? What a dumb post. How could you possibly come to that conclusion on Newhook? Guy is a great skater. Great work rate. Was an excellent PK player on college. He is a top shelf prospect in so many ways.
 

Belgican

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What? What a dumb post. How could you possibly come to that conclusion on Newhook? Guy is a great skater. Great work rate. Was an excellent PK player on college. He is a top shelf prospect in so many ways.
Yeah, sometimes, I guess people only see negative in every solution, you don’t go far with sure a pessimistic view.

Kuemper could get another injury, so why extend him now ?
Newhook could never develop
EJ could still have another injury

Sure, all of this could happen, but how that help you build a better lineup ? What do you you propose (not asking you Jedi) ?
 

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I agree with all that. I love that Jost and JTC are always skating. Always circling and pressing the puck with speed. It works. Nieto and PEB were far too stationary the year before and that was piss poor coaching scheme.

Avs improved their PK this last year in large part because they switched styles and skated more with their PK forwards. Nuke too. They were much higher pressure.

I'd argue the real change in the PK this year was the skill level of the defensemen involved. Instead of relying on outright bad PK defenders like Zadorov, who was beyond abhorrent in that regard, EJ, and Cole, they switched to Toews, who almost singlehandedly changed the complexion of that PK. The effectiveness of him, Girard, and Makar on the PK allowed the forwards to be a little more aggressive.

I'd say the PK would've been just as good if not better if Nieto were still around. Unlike Jost, who is admittedly much better at creating turnovers, Nieto had enough speed to convert some of those loose pucks into shorthanded breaks. Nuke is obviously good at killing penalties as well. The only really horrid PK forward who keeps getting used on it is Compher.
 

Avsfan1921

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What? What a dumb post. How could you possibly come to that conclusion on Newhook? Guy is a great skater. Great work rate. Was an excellent PK player on college. He is a top shelf prospect in so many ways.

I very well could be wrong but here is my reasoning:

At the NHL level none of his qualities are standout, aside from possibly his shot. He's a good skater but not elite. His work ethic fine yes. His shot is his best asset yet he relies on the same look too much. He has not shown enough awareness to play the center position effectively and will be better suited to wing. I realize he's young and talented, with room for improvement but this is what I see thus far. From my view, he will be better suited to a top 6 wing position and that's where I see him moving forward.

What makes you certain he will become a 2c at minimum if I may ask? Your point of skating is noted, although he's not elite. Many players, regardless of position or line status have great work ethic, as well as many bottom 6 players can be great on the PK even though so far he has not been proven to be a great penalty killer.

I like Newhook and am happy he's in the system. I liked him where we drafted him at, but there is certainly reason to wonder if he translates to 2c for me.
 
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Richard88

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I'd argue the real change in the PK this year was the skill level of the defensemen involved. Instead of relying on outright bad PK defenders like Zadorov, who was beyond abhorrent in that regard, EJ, and Cole, they switched to Toews, who almost singlehandedly changed the complexion of that PK. The effectiveness of him, Girard, and Makar on the PK allowed the forwards to be a little more aggressive.

I'd say the PK would've been just as good if not better if Nieto were still around. Unlike Jost, who is admittedly much better at creating turnovers, Nieto had enough speed to convert some of those loose pucks into shorthanded breaks. Nuke is obviously good at killing penalties as well. The only really horrid PK forward who keeps getting used on it is Compher.
Hopefully we don't have to see Compher on the PK much.

Nichuskin - Jost
Helm - O'Connor

That should be the top 4 PKers. Perhaps put one of Helm/LOC with one of Nichuskin/Jost on each pair to have one puck hound and one speedster on each pair.

Throw in Maltsev in the rotation too if he shows that he can PK well. Just leave Compher out of it.
 

Avsfan1921

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Yeah, sometimes, I guess people only see negative in every solution, you don’t go far with sure a pessimistic view.

Kuemper could get another injury, so why extend him now ?
Newhook could never develop
EJ could still have another injury

Sure, all of this could happen, but how that help you build a better lineup ? What do you you propose (not asking you Jedi) ?
I'm one of the more optimistic people on this board lately I think. I definitely have higher expectations for the team this year and next for most, don't mind the Kuemper trade and am slightly optimistic on a healthy EJ. But my view on our prospects is definitely not as rosy as some. Byram to me is an absolute blue chip A prospect, I would not trade him for absolutely any reasonable offer out there. But Newhook is a clear step below him in my view for reasons posted above.
 

Belgican

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I'm one of the more optimistic people on this board lately I think. I definitely have higher expectations for the team this year and next for most, don't mind the Kuemper trade and am slightly optimistic on a healthy EJ. But my view on our prospects is definitely not as rosy as some. Byram to me is an absolute blue chip A prospect, I would not trade him for absolutely any reasonable offer out there. But Newhook is a clear step below him in my view for reasons posted above.

I agree, I mean we have one year to see how Newhook will develop. He only played a few games, so it’s not easy to judge. But the first games he played at center with Kadri on the wing, he was outstanding, it was of the only stretches in the season where Kadri played a little better.

He doesn’t skate super fast, but he makes plays instantly, often taking some experienced players by surprise, they need to learn each other of course. In the Vegas game late in the season, he got 2 assists in the win, Gru was also outstanding, and that without MacK.

Then in the playoffs, he’s back to 4th line, does well, no goal against his line in the 2 first wins, but Bednar decides to scratch him and Ranta, with the results we know. He comes back in game 5 or 6, and the team does better.

I wouldn’t be very confortable with him as a 2C in one year, but I can hope. Anyway, he showed a lot of promise.
 

McJedi

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I very well could be wrong but here is my reasoning:

At the NHL level none of his qualities are standout, aside from possibly his shot. He's a good skater but not elite. His work ethic fine yes. His shot is his best asset yet he relies on the same look too much. He has not shown enough awareness to play the center position effectively and will be better suited to wing. I realize he's young and talented, with room for improvement but this is what I see thus far. From my view, he will be better suited to a top 6 wing position and that's where I see him moving forward.

What makes you certain he will become a 2c at minimum if I may ask? Your point of skating is noted, although he's not elite. Many players, regardless of position or line status have great work ethic, as well as many bottom 6 players can be great on the PK even though so far he has not been proven to be a great penalty killer.

I like Newhook and am happy he's in the system. I liked him where we drafted him at, but there is certainly reason to wonder if he translates to 2c for me.
His skating speed is definitely 2C and high end two C. He’s very fast and that defensive explosion caught teams by surprise several times. He’s got good handles too. He’s proven good passing instincts as well. Was a top shelf PK player at BC. Lead the NCAA in shorthand’s goals as Freshman. Bednar is an absolute coward at playing and trusting younger players and still let Newhook do some PK as a rookie with like 4 games under his belt.

he’s got more tools than Kardi. And he’s got decent lower body size too. He’s 20 and already has a mans lower body. He’s screaming top six forward.
 

dahrougem2

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What's frustrating about Sakic and those comments about "he helped us as much as we helped him" is that he went out and spent a boatload to get Darcy Kuemper.

If you seriously are of the opinion that Grubauer wasn't all that and a bag of chips, then you need to sign one of the 5,000 UFA goalies that are average and believe that the team can prop them up.

Mrazek is making 3.8M
Rittich is making 1.25M
Holtby is making 2M
Halak is making 1.5M
Reimer is making 2.25M
Raanta is making 2M

I'm not saying that would be my strategy from the get-go, but if you're so confident in your team's ability to suppress shots and be the reason why a goaltender gets a Vezina nomination, then bring in one of the bargain bin guys to tandem with Francouz and spend those other assets to make the team around them even better.

Nothing about what Sakic did makes sense. Like I get it, he needed a starter and got caught not only in a bidding war, but a bidding war for one of like two starting goalies readily available (the other being Gibson). But the sequence of events and decisions is baffling.
 

McJedi

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I'd argue the real change in the PK this year was the skill level of the defensemen involved. Instead of relying on outright bad PK defenders like Zadorov, who was beyond abhorrent in that regard, EJ, and Cole, they switched to Toews, who almost singlehandedly changed the complexion of that PK. The effectiveness of him, Girard, and Makar on the PK allowed the forwards to be a little more aggressive.

I'd say the PK would've been just as good if not better if Nieto were still around. Unlike Jost, who is admittedly much better at creating turnovers, Nieto had enough speed to convert some of those loose pucks into shorthanded breaks. Nuke is obviously good at killing penalties as well. The only really horrid PK forward who keeps getting used on it is Compher.
JTCs only good attribute is his PK work. That’s it. But He’s real good there.

You’re missing what the Avs did from 2019-20 to 2020-21 season. They changed their PK style. They adopted San Jose’s looping skating style with their forwards. No standing, no straight line skating or forwards trying to disrupt shooting lanes. It’s now a higher speed lopping motion to cut off passing lanes and pressure the puck carrier. Force teams to make fast decisions and attack loose pucks. Bednar talked about it a time or two. That was the big change. It worked.
 

MaKarter

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What's frustrating about Sakic and those comments about "he helped us as much as we helped him" is that he went out and spent a boatload to get Darcy Kuemper.

If you seriously are of the opinion that Grubauer wasn't all that and a bag of chips, then you need to sign one of the 5,000 UFA goalies that are average and believe that the team can prop them up.

Mrazek is making 3.8M
Rittich is making 1.25M
Holtby is making 2M
Halak is making 1.5M
Reimer is making 2.25M
Raanta is making 2M

I'm not saying that would be my strategy from the get-go, but if you're so confident in your team's ability to suppress shots and be the reason why a goaltender gets a Vezina nomination, then bring in one of the bargain bin guys to tandem with Francouz and spend those other assets to make the team around them even better.

Nothing about what Sakic did makes sense. Like I get it, he needed a starter and got caught not only in a bidding war, but a bidding war for one of like two starting goalies readily available (the other being Gibson). But the sequence of events and decisions is baffling.
I thought about this as well. Why not move on from Gru faster?

All I could think of is the guys in the locker room love him so Sakic wanted to attempt to bring him back. Gru was talking about how much he loved Colorado and he wanted to stay. But then that didn't seem to matter all that much $$$
 

Richard88

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JTCs only good attribute is his PK work. That’s it. But He’s real good there.

You’re missing what the Avs did from 2019-20 to 2020-21 season. They changed their PK style. They adopted San Jose’s looping skating style with their forwards. No standing, no straight line skating or forwards trying to disrupt shooting lanes. It’s now a higher speed lopping motion to cut off passing lanes and pressure the puck carrier. Force teams to make fast decisions and attack loose pucks. Bednar talked about it a time or two. That was the big change. It worked.
Umm, can you please explain that. Compher's PK metrics are the worst on the Avs team, and by a very big margin too.
 
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dahrougem2

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JTCs only good attribute is his PK work. That’s it. But He’s real good there.

You’re missing what the Avs did from 2019-20 to 2020-21 season. They changed their PK style. They adopted San Jose’s looping skating style with their forwards. No standing, no straight line skating or forwards trying to disrupt shooting lanes. It’s now a higher speed lopping motion to cut off passing lanes and pressure the puck carrier. Force teams to make fast decisions and attack loose pucks. Bednar talked about it a time or two. That was the big change. It worked.
This is like that "Ryan Graves is a good penalty killer" myth, too.

J.T. Compher is awful at killing penalties.
 

Avsfan1921

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His skating speed is definitely 2C and high end two C. He’s very fast and that defensive explosion caught teams by surprise several times. He’s got good handles too. He’s proven good passing instincts as well. Was a top shelf PK player at BC. Lead the NCAA in shorthand’s goals as Freshman. Bednar is an absolute coward at playing and trusting younger players and still let Newhook do some PK as a rookie with like 4 games under his belt.

he’s got more tools than Kardi. And he’s got decent lower body size too. He’s 20 and already has a mans lower body. He’s screaming top six forward.

I have faith of this too, just not so much at center.

I guess we just disagree on the quality of play he showed last year. I don't recall him catching many off guard with his speed nor many passing plays that made me think he will be a premier puck distributor. Overall though, I don't doubt he has the offensive instincts to be a top six player. I just haven't seen enough to warrant him being a surefire top six center. He can get lost on his coverage in the defensive end and his puck support hasn't been enough for me to comfortably slot him in to a 2c roll moving forward. He's got some great skills, I'm curious to see where they translate best.
 

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