Friedman: Cody Glass was likely the hold up on Karlsson to vegas trade

Seven0two

Registered User
Apr 17, 2018
209
201
I think people here are getting too hung up on Glass being the "hold up" on this deal, when he was just one piece (of many) that VGK had the biggest problem with. The deal as rumored at the time was Glass/ Suzuki plus Tuch/ Theodore plus two firsts, for Karlsson and Ryan. I'm not going to make a case that Karlsson isn't worth that, but when you consider the organizational depth of a first year franchise you are really going all in and mortgaging the entire future for what could amount to a year and a half window. It's easy in retrospect to think that not making the move was a bad call, but at the time no one really thought Vegas would go to the Cup Final.

As for the Tatar deal, it was a huge overpay and possibly a panic move after failing on the Karlsson deal. The idea was that even if Tatar wasn't a huge contributor this season, he would be top 6 "insurance" for potentially losing Neal and/ or Perron in the off-season. Still, the idea of revisiting the Karlsson trade at this point is severely hampered by the picks that were given up to acquire Tatar and I find that to be to bigger issue in regards to how the deadline panned out.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
Hindsight is 20/20, the fact that the Tatar trade didn’t work out has nothing to do with Ottawa’s demands for Karlsson.

And that’s a large “win-now” package for a team in its first year that is still trying to figure out its identity. I’m sure part of McPhee was wondering, “What if this year IS a fluke?”. Yeah they traded for Tatar, but I think he has 3 years left on his contract. Let’s be honest, that’s a first overall package. It’s a lot to risk an expansion team’s future on (potentially) two playoff runs.

Don't use hindsight then.

Compare those two packages, what would you rather have at the deadline?
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
6,005
For all his offensive gifts, Karlsson still has a career GF% under 50 at 5v5, despite being deployed in the OZone at least 55% of the time. He generates shots up the wazoo but is mediocre in suppressing them. And he'll absolutely still take plays off in the defensive zone and blows his coverage.
Meh ,every defender has rough outings ,and makes mistakes...Ill take the one capable of generating at elite forwards pace,and is an absolute puck magnet
 

HollaHaula

Cynical Wild fan
Jul 28, 2015
860
280
I'm glad Vegas didn't trade for Karlsson. Do it right: stay patient and build for the future.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
So vegas goes all season and playoffs with HFBoards ripping on their legitimacy and they end up going to the cup final yet you think they will care when HFBoards decides to rip them over not including their best prospect in a deal for an unsigned player

ok man

Not talking about HFboards. Talking about national pundits. Talking about the Mckenzies and Dregers of the world. If Glass busts like Yakupov and the Knights had a chance at Karlsson for including him... you’re insane if that won’t be a huge talking point.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
I'm glad Vegas didn't trade for Karlsson. Do it right: stay patient and build for the future.

They already totally blew their chance at doing that. After this one fluke season, there is no chance that they’re going to be drafting in the top-5 of back to back drafts any time soon; this differentiates them from 9 of the last 10 Cup Winners. Their franchise players are a center who had the most unsustainable fluke season of all time and a goaltender who turns 34 next season and had a pretty unsustainable season of his own. Adding Erik Karlsson would give them a legitimate franchise player to build around long term. It would also put them in a position where they are a far more enticing team to John Tavares who would give them yet another franchise player to build around long term.

You can’t “build for the future” if you aren’t building around superstars that you tanked for.
 

AveryStar4Eva

Registered User
Aug 28, 2014
7,453
5,782
Looking back might have been worth it as Karlsson could have put them over the top and helped them win the cup. But I don’t think Vegas ever thought of themselves as a cup contender in their first year.

Taking on nearly 14M in salary (assuming Ryan was part of the deal), could be problematic for the future as well.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
Looking back might have been worth it as Karlsson could have put them over the top and helped them win the cup. But I don’t think Vegas ever thought of themselves as a cup contender in their first year.

Taking on nearly 14M in salary (assuming Ryan was part of the deal), could be problematic for the future as well.

They obviously thought of themselves a contender or they wouldn’t have traded a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd for a middle-6 forward. Those kinds of trades are only made by teams who feel like they’re a contender that has one hole they need to plug.
 

MardyBum

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
16,368
16,339
Winnipeg, Manitoba
No one even close to Cody Glass (plus all the other major assets they likely had to trade)

Cody Glass is Auston Matthews now? Closer to Dylan Strome, who shouldn't be the "Ehhh this is too rich for my blood" point in a team looking to compete for the cup (seeing as they traded their first rounder away).
 

HollaHaula

Cynical Wild fan
Jul 28, 2015
860
280
They already totally blew their chance at doing that. After this one fluke season, there is no chance that they’re going to be drafting in the top-5 of back to back drafts any time soon; this differentiates them from 9 of the last 10 Cup Winners. Their franchise players are a center who had the most unsustainable fluke season of all time and a goaltender who turns 34 next season and had a pretty unsustainable season of his own. Adding Erik Karlsson would give them a legitimate franchise player to build around long term. It would also put them in a position where they are a far more enticing team to John Tavares who would give them yet another franchise player to build around long term.

You can’t “build for the future” if you aren’t building around superstars that you tanked for.
Lol no they didn't blow their chance. The Knights will be competitive again next year. They still have a very deep team that will be a strong contender for the mediocre Pacific division. Their high-quality prospects can continue to develop and a few may be able to make it onto the team and contribute. The younger players currently with the team also will improve. Though, I doubt "Wild Bill" puts up 43 again next year. But, he won't fall off the face of the Earth either.

This season, imo, was not a fluke. An examination of that roster and coaching should be enough to confirm this. Don't be surprised if the Knights win the Pacific again next year.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
Lol no they didn't blow their chance. The Knights will be competitive again next year. They still have a very deep team that will be a strong contender for the mediocre Pacific division. Their high-quality prospects can continue to develop and a few may be able to make it onto the team and contribute. The younger players currently with the team also will improve. Though, I doubt "Wild Bill" puts up 43 again next year. But, he won't fall off the face of the Earth either.

This season, imo, was not a fluke. An examination of that roster and coaching should be enough to confirm this. Don't be surprised if the Knights win the Pacific again next year.

I’m a Sharks fan, so let me tell you that I’ve lost count of how many Pacific Division Titles we’ve won, and I also totally don’t give a f*** about Pacific Division Titles.

There is no point in putting together a team that is good enough to win the weakest division in the league if they have no chance at a Stanley Cup. The Knights have no chance at a Stanley Cup if they don’t add at least one legitimate superstar. They’re not going to make that addition internally so the best move for them would be to pony up the assets required for Erik Karlsson or go after John Tavares.
 

HollaHaula

Cynical Wild fan
Jul 28, 2015
860
280
I’m a Sharks fan, so let me tell you that I’ve lost count of how many Pacific Division Titles we’ve won, and I also totally don’t give a **** about Pacific Division Titles.

There is no point in putting together a team that is good enough to win the weakest division in the league if they have no chance at a Stanley Cup. The Knights have no chance at a Stanley Cup if they don’t add at least one legitimate superstar. They’re not going to make that addition internally so the best move for them would be to pony up the assets required for Erik Karlsson or go after John Tavares.
I wouldn't mind if the Knights went after Tavares. I think a UFA Tavares would be a lot cheaper to acquire than trading for Karlsson. That's why I'm against the idea of trading for Karlsson. I just think he would cost way too much of the future pipeline to be reasonable for Vegas.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
20,842
14,549
Cody Glass is Auston Matthews now? Closer to Dylan Strome, who shouldn't be the "Ehhh this is too rich for my blood" point in a team looking to compete for the cup (seeing as they traded their first rounder away).

Big differwnce between trading the recent 6th overall pick with very high potential versus the 27th to 31st pick.

Glass could end up a very, very good player
 

Revelation

Registered User
Aug 15, 2016
5,298
2,963
If they put out the money they could be the non-caps frontrunners to sign John Carlson in the offseason and he'd probably bring as much to them as EK would considering their needs, plus they get to keep all the other pieces.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
20,842
14,549
They obviously thought of themselves a contender or they wouldn’t have traded a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd for a middle-6 forward. Those kinds of trades are only made by teams who feel like they’re a contender that has one hole they need to plug.

Tatar before going to Vegas was a clear top 6 player and he wasn't a rental, he's signed for 3 more years
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
Tatar before going to Vegas was a clear top 6 player and he wasn't a rental, he's signed for 3 more years

He had 28 points in 62 games in Detroit. That is certainly not top-line production, and it is certainly not bottom-line production. Therefore, it is middle-6 production.

If you want to look at a larger sample size, he had 119 points in 225 games in his last 3 seasons in Detroit. 0.53 PPG or 43 points per 82 games. In no way is that bottom-line production and in no way is it top-line production. It is middle-6 production and GMs generally trade for those types of players because they feel they’ve got a hole they need to fill. In the case of Vegas, it was a 3rd line left winger for Eakin and Tuch at the time of the deadline. Trading a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for that type of player is really only done by teams that see themselves as a contender.

He is under contract for one more season; the same amount of time as Erik Karlsson. There is really no way you can spin things to make George McPhee not look bad here.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
20,842
14,549
He had 28 points in 62 games in Detroit. That is certainly not top-line production, and it is certainly not bottom-line production. Therefore, it is middle-6 production.

If you want to look at a larger sample size, he had 119 points in 225 games in his last 3 seasons in Detroit. 0.53 PPG or 43 points per 82 games. In no way is that bottom-line production and in no way is it top-line production. It is middle-6 production and GMs generally trade for those types of players because they feel they’ve got a hole they need to fill. In the case of Vegas, it was a 3rd line left winger for Eakin and Tuch at the time of the deadline. Trading a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for that type of player is really only done by teams that see themselves as a contender.

He is under contract for one more season; the same amount of time as Erik Karlsson. There is really no way you can spin things to make George McPhee not look bad here.

Nope, Tatar is signed for 3 more years. He was not a 1 or 2 year rental. He will be staple in their top 6 and was insurance if Neal or Perron leave. He's scored 20 or more goals for the last like 4 seasons.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
20,842
14,549
I’m a Sharks fan, so let me tell you that I’ve lost count of how many Pacific Division Titles we’ve won, and I also totally don’t give a **** about Pacific Division Titles.

There is no point in putting together a team that is good enough to win the weakest division in the league if they have no chance at a Stanley Cup. The Knights have no chance at a Stanley Cup if they don’t add at least one legitimate superstar. They’re not going to make that addition internally so the best move for them would be to pony up the assets required for Erik Karlsson or go after John Tavares.

:laugh:

Makes the Stanley Cup finals in their first season and now there's no chance they're ever going to win the cup.

We get it, you're upset the Knights are better than the Sharks already but don't make it so obvious.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
:laugh:

Makes the Stanley Cup finals in their first season and now there's no chance they're ever going to win the cup.

We get it, you're upset the Knights are better than the Sharks already but don't make it so obvious.

Making the SCF is as good as going 0-82. No player grows up dreaming of touching the Clarence Campbell Bowl. You’re making fun of the fact that I’m a Sharks fan, but you fail to realize that we made the Stanley Cup Finals in 2016. Knowing that we still lost, would I go back in time and tank that season if it meant we got Auston Matthews? Abso-f***ing-lutely!

Fluke teams make the SCF all the time. Philadelphia, New Jersey, and, Vegas just recently made it; no coincidence they all got crushed in the SCF! If you want to call San Jose a fluke SCF team, that’s fine; I don’t personally think that they were but it’s beside the point. The point is that making the SCF as a fluke is a lot different from being a legitimate contender and a team like Vegas is not a legitimate contender without an Erik Karlsson or John Tavares level player on their roster.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
20,842
14,549
Making the SCF is as good as going 0-82. No player grows up dreaming of touching the Clarence Campbell Bowl. You’re making fun of the fact that I’m a Sharks fan, but you fail to realize that we made the Stanley Cup Finals in 2016. Knowing that we still lost, would I go back in time and tank that season if it meant we got Auston Matthews? Abso-****ing-lutely!

Fluke teams make the SCF all the time. Philadelphia, New Jersey, and, Vegas just recently made it; no coincidence they all got crushed in the SCF! If you want to call San Jose a fluke SCF team, that’s fine; I don’t personally think that they were but it’s beside the point. The point is that making the SCF as a fluke is a lot different from being a legitimate contender and a team like Vegas is not a legitimate contender without an Erik Karlsson or John Tavares level player on their roster.

Except you have literally no evidence that they are not a Stanley Cup contender other than you say so. Being in the SCF is the definition of being a contender and it remains to be seen what the future holds. Giving up your only true blue chip prospect (plus a whole bunch else) when you are in your first ever season is a pretty huge gamble and makes sense why Vegas would have been reluctant to do so.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->