Friedman: Cody Glass was likely the hold up on Karlsson to vegas trade

bert

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he's a 80 point dman right now? news to me. He's also a UFA next season so, we won't trade Pettersson for him and it's perfectly normal to think this way.

anyways, McPhee did the right call hanging onto Glass if it's true. Karlsson is a UFA next season, and there was no certainty he was going to sign in Vegas. On top of that I don't think Karlsson would have helped them win a cup anyways. Captials were just the better team.

Have you ever heard of a sight called hockey db you can look up Karlssons production there.
 

danielpalfredsson

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dont get me wrong, Elliott Friedman was at one point a very credible hockey insider, but since starting 30/31 thoughts, Friedman has lost a lot of credibility... he just throw **** at the wall and hope that it sticks, you know just like Eklown was doing a couple years back

To me this is bull****

This isn't fair to him.

He speculates a lot, but there's nothing wrong with that. The problem comes when people who lack reading comprehension re-post his speculation and tag it as a "rumour".

This thread is a case where he reported an actual rumour, but a lot of the time people take his speculation and mis-report it as a rumour on HFBoards or elsewhere.
 

LeProspector

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People get to attached to prospects (myself included), the fact you say no to acquiring a generational defenceman and quite convincingly nonetheless is absurd.
Sure hindsight is 20/20, but I imagine Vegas would rather do the Karlsson trade now rather than trading a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Tatar, a player who was regularly a healthy scratch in the playoffs. I'm not saying Vegas would have won the cup with Karlsson, but I know damn well Karlsson wouldnt have been a healthy scratch.
 

danielpalfredsson

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I think it's nuts that a team wouldn't give up Glass, two firsts, taking Ryan's contract, and a conditional pick for prime Karlsson. Vegas was red hot this past season. If Karlsson wouldn't sign, they could easily flip him in the off season and have gotten not all but a big chunk of what they gave up back.

Maybe I'm just too close to it as a Sens fan, but the opportunity to acquire a player like Karlsson is very very rare. Let alone the opportunity to acquire him for a team that was red hot.

So if Vegas gave up that package, they end up in three scenarios...

1) They only get one playoff run out of Karlsson, they do this when they are the hottest they might ever be for a long time and increase their odds of winning a Stanley Cup, which is a very hard thing to do. (With the benefit of hindsight, we can add that they probably would have won the Cup with Karlsson....but we didn't know that for sure at the time).

In the scenario above, the probably are able to recoup a big chunk of what they gave up for Karlsson by trading him in the off season. They won't get back the equivalent of two 1sts+Glass+Ryan's negative value, but they should be able to get enough draft picks to largely make up for everything they gave up other than Glass. If Karlsson will sign elsewhere, just not in Vegas, Vegas probably gets back similar value to what they gave up, just different pieces.

2) They extend Karlsson, and have the best defender of this generation (Maybe Dahlin will overtake him) locked down for the rest of his prime, and all they had to give up was an exceptional prospect and some draft picks that they could recoup by trading other veteran players if needed.

3) They keep Karlsson for two playoff runs and lose him to UFA. Maybe they win the 2018 Stanley Cup.

To me, that's a gamble Vegas has to take. The upside of the trade was just too high, I can't believe they didn't do it. Looking at the situation above, it makes me think that maybe they thought Dorion had less leverage, and that he'd crack and take their best offer, but it never happened. I just can't see why they didn't pull the trigger.
 
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General Disarray

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I'm against Vegas winning the cup or even going past the first round, however they should have paid up and got Karlson. They likely win the cup if they make that move.
 

IPreferPi

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Yeah, who needs an 80 point defenseman right now when you could very well have a 70 point 1C in a few years?

An 80 point one-dimensional defenseman with one year left on his current contract and will likely command 10M+ on his next one vs a two-way 2C/1C who will be cost controlled for most of the next decade. And I'm sure Ottawa was asking for way more in excess to just Glass, like multiple firsts.
 

danielpalfredsson

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An 80 point one-dimensional defenseman with one year left on his current contract and will likely command 10M+ on his next one vs a two-way 2C/1C who will be cost controlled for most of the next decade. And I'm sure Ottawa was asking for way more in excess to just Glass, like multiple firsts.

????

I never thought I'd see someone call the most dynamic defenseman in the league one dimensional.

He also had two playoff runs left in him, that's a major distinction. It's irrelevant value wise that Vegas was only technically getting 1.25 years of Karlsson instead of 2, because they were already in the playoffs.

If 1st round picks are the big point of contention, look at it this way, if Vegas successfully extended Karlsson, they could have flipped lesser veteran players to recoup those picks. Even without doing that, they just gave up a 1st+2nd+3rd for Tatar. Karlsson trade=no Tatar. So at this point if they made the Karlsson trade we're talking about them having Karlsson+2nd+3rd and currently only missing only 1 additional 1st+Glass+Conditional pick compared to where they actually are by not having made the Karlsson trade.

What would you rather have?

Tatar+Glass+2019 1st+Conditional Pick
or
Karlsson (2 playoff runs+)+2nd+3rd (-Ryan's contract)

Vegas would have had the inside track on extending Karlsson, and if it didn't work out and he wouldn't extend, they'd be in a situation where compared to the spot they're in now, they'd have to recoup Glass+2019 1st (-2nd and 3rd they keep by not having dealt for Tatar) in value for 1 year of Karlsson by flipping him during the 2018 off season after he refuses to sign. Maybe they don't get one major high value asset like Glass, but in terms of quantity they probably would have made back their end of the deal.

Having Ryan on the books would be problematic, but I think it would be a worthwhile risk to have the inside track on extending Karlsson, and to have Karlsson for one playoff run where the team was hotter than it might ever be for a long long time.

There's gotta be something else to this, or Vegas has to think Glass is going to have a Leon Draisaitl like emergence or something, because otherwise it's mind blowing that this move didn't get done if Glass was the hold up. I can't even fathom it. Vegas had so little to lose by making the deal. They either think Glass is going to be a franchise player, they thought Dorion would panic and overplayed their hand, or they straight up just made a terrible move by not pulling the trigger. I seriously can't believe it.
 
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topshelf15

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Karlsson will leave , stone will sign an offer sheet, Duchene sucks, Pettersson will be better than Chabot ... hehe did I answer ur questions good sir ??
He really flew under the radar due to our suckage...Almost 30 points in 60 some games.with 9 goals...Kid is going to be really good
 

topshelf15

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An 80 point one-dimensional defenseman with one year left on his current contract and will likely command 10M+ on his next one vs a two-way 2C/1C who will be cost controlled for most of the next decade. And I'm sure Ottawa was asking for way more in excess to just Glass, like multiple firsts.
Stop ,this is just nonsense
 

topshelf15

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And after July 1st, what prevents the Sens from allowing teams to talk to EK?
If iam not mistaken ,we are the only ones that can offer EK 8 seasons...Which he and the team trading for him would also want
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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An 80 point one-dimensional defenseman with one year left on his current contract and will likely command 10M+ on his next one vs a two-way 2C/1C who will be cost controlled for most of the next decade. And I'm sure Ottawa was asking for way more in excess to just Glass, like multiple firsts.

Vegas was at the top of their division. They had a PPG center with the best plus minus in the NHL by far and one of the best goalies in the NHL. They needed to add a legitimate superstar and defense was the position they could have used the most help on. Their right side consisted of Colin Miller, Deryk Engelland, and one of McNabb/Schmidt on their off side. They lost games in the playoffs largely in part because of their #6D, whether it was Luca Sbisa or Jon Merril. The other reason they lost is because they didn’t have a single player performing as well as Kuznetsov or Ovechkin. Karlsson would have added another element to that team and they would have been a legitimate Stanley Cup Contender instead of a fluke Stanley Cup Finalist if they had traded for Erik Karlsson.

As a Sharks fan, I would easily give up Timo Meier (2015 #9OV, comparable to Glass), 2018 1st, and 2019 1st for Erik Karlsson and Bobby Ryan. (We don’t have our ‘19 first anymore though so replace that with our 2017 first round pick Josh Norris I guess) I would have much rather made that deal at last year’s TDL when we were looking like a faux contender that needed a legitimate superstar, but I would still make it now.
 

nbwingsfan

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Turning down Karlsson because he'll cost you Cody Glass is such an HF thing to do I'm convinced Mcphee posts here looking for advice.

Potentially only 1.5 years of Karlsson for Cody Glass from a team who just entered the league and have very few prospects.

Without insurance that he will re-sign it makes plenty of sense
 
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Stephen

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Question is would Karlsson have tipped that cup finals in favour of Vegas?
 

Mickey Marner

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Potentially only 1.5 years of Karlsson for Cody Glass from a team who just entered the league and have very few prospects.

Without insurance that he will re-sign it makes plenty of sense

A team that fell 3 wins short of a cup turned down Karlsson -who single-handedly won 11 playoff games last spring- because they didn't want to move a player who will never be as good as Karlsson.
 

AvatarAang

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Vegas better hope that Cody Glass turns out to be a star. Anything but being one of the better top 6 forwards in the league and this non-trade will get ripped to shreds.

So vegas goes all season and playoffs with HFBoards ripping on their legitimacy and they end up going to the cup final yet you think they will care when HFBoards decides to rip them over not including their best prospect in a deal for an unsigned player

ok man
 
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danielpalfredsson

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Potentially only 1.5 years of Karlsson for Cody Glass from a team who just entered the league and have very few prospects.

Without insurance that he will re-sign it makes plenty of sense

Vegas' insurance is that they could have flipped Karlsson at the draft and recouped a major chunk of what they gave up if he told them he wasn't interested in re-signing.
 

nbwingsfan

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A team that fell 3 wins short of a cup turned down Karlsson -who single-handedly won 11 playoff games last spring- because they didn't want to move a player who will never be as good as Karlsson.

You're right, Vegas definitely knew with 100% certainly they would be in the finals this season.
 
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HoweHullOrr

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Two things interest me here.

1. VGK did a lot of good things last year obviously, but that Tatar trade was a head scratcher. Maybe they think Tatar will make a bigger contribution during the regular season this year. That's about the only thing I can think of that helps rationalize that trade.

2. Will the two teams get together again to see if a deal can be made involving Karlsson? Seems like they might and I'd wonder if there's any real reasons for at least not taking another look at this.
 

nbwingsfan

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Vegas' insurance is that they could have flipped Karlsson at the draft and recouped a major chunk of what they gave up if he told them he wasn't interested in re-signing.

No one even close to Cody Glass (plus all the other major assets they likely had to trade)
 

deckercky

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Karlsson of 2016/2017 may have been the difference for Vegas, but I'm not sure 2017/2018 Karlsson would have had that much of an impact for a team that operated as a well-oiled machine for much of the playoffs.

That said, Vegas definitely should have paid a bit more for Karlsson compared to the price they paid for Tatar. Glass + the trade haul for Tatar for Karlsson would have been better than having Glass + Tatar.
 

wingsfan17

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What would you rather have?

Tatar+Glass+2019 1st+Conditional Pick
or
Karlsson (2 playoff runs+)+2nd+3rd (-Ryan's contract)

Hindsight is 20/20, the fact that the Tatar trade didn’t work out has nothing to do with Ottawa’s demands for Karlsson.

And that’s a large “win-now” package for a team in its first year that is still trying to figure out its identity. I’m sure part of McPhee was wondering, “What if this year IS a fluke?”. Yeah they traded for Tatar, but I think he has 3 years left on his contract. Let’s be honest, that’s a first overall package. It’s a lot to risk an expansion team’s future on (potentially) two playoff runs.
 

Lenerdosy

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If they want him this summer, and they got word that Karlsson would resign then I could see them giving up Cody Glass. For 1 1/4 potential seasons, yea I understand why they wouldnt have wanted to give up their franchise first ever pick.
 

IPreferPi

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Jun 22, 2012
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Stop ,this is just nonsense

For all his offensive gifts, Karlsson still has a career GF% under 50 at 5v5, despite being deployed in the OZone at least 55% of the time. He generates shots up the wazoo but is mediocre in suppressing them. And he'll absolutely still take plays off in the defensive zone and blows his coverage.
 

TkachukNorris79

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Karlsson of 2016/2017 may have been the difference for Vegas, but I'm not sure 2017/2018 Karlsson would have had that much of an impact for a team that operated as a well-oiled machine for much of the playoffs.

That said, Vegas definitely should have paid a bit more for Karlsson compared to the price they paid for Tatar. Glass + the trade haul for Tatar for Karlsson would have been better than having Glass + Tatar.

End of 2017 Karlsson probably not. But 2018 Karlsson was like 90% of 2016-2017 EK. Maybe 95%. And if he played like he did in the playoffs last year, that'd be scary.
 

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